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Gustavo Tolosa: Dr Lisle Chef AJ Mastering the Environment (Part 1)
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welcome to everyone who is logging in and gusto with a lota from Dallas and we have chef AJ and our guest of honor dr. Doug Lyall tonight for an amazing webinar on mastering your environment part one and we have three parts so we'll announce when the other two are coming so thank you all for joining in and thank you chef AJ thank you dr. Lyle how are you both doing I'll put you on the screen thank you I'm hot but I'm good or hot hey yeah it's very hot in the Los Angeles now but yes I am hot but I'm also very warm we're very good I'll give you that big screen here AJ to welcome everyone yes so thank you guys so much for being here and especially thank you to dr. Lyle for taking time out of his busy schedule to talk about this subject so one of the reasons I wanted to do this particular webinar and especially have dr. Lyle be our special guest is I've been running the program now for several years called the ultimate weight loss program and dr. Lyle actually is going to be speaking at the conference with dr. Goldhamer in September and in the program we have a community board where people can share their thoughts and their feelings and everything like that on a daily basis and all the time when people relapse or they say they cheated or they fell off the wagon or they ate something non-compliant they'll post it and then I the first question I say to them is well where did you get it and the answer is always in their house so I've been saying for about four years now if it's in your house it's in your mouth and it's not a question of if you will eat it only when and that you don't have to use willpower to not eat something that's not there now I product Al I'll speak many times as many different venues and I always hear him say that we have to work harder on our environment than we even do ourselves and if the number one rule for healthy living is no junk food in the house well since nobody seems to believe me when I tell them the importance of the environment I thought I would have a doctor tell you why it's so important to master your environment if you're trying to affect term it's dietary and lifestyle changes so that's the first question dr. Weil why is it so important to master our environment that that's just beautiful it's just it's an amazing thing to hear your own your own thinking coming out of somebody else's math oh my uh well first of all before I answer this question I just wanted to point out that the room that you're looking at and I want people to notice the art on the wall behind me now I have had many critics of my heart and you know when when you reach a high level in anything the critics just come crawling out of the woodwork so I bet many people criticize my extraordinary artistic skills so I just want everybody to know that I painted this at a paint nite all by myself it's really good it is if there is a remarkable flatbacks emiti - I think that's sort of I don't know I think it's van Gogh but it's pretty close that's what it is so anyway so so much for the critic hello even better it's even better that's it all right so back to our question and the question is why do we we need to work harder on our environments than we do in ourselves now the reason I say this is that there's sort of two ways of looking at the problem of making healthy changes and we're in a typical in psychology and typical in the way the world thinks about these problems is they think about them as the problem is within the individual in other words they they see it as essentially a personal weakness a willpower issue etc so they you're looking at the problem within the person and so people heard me talk about how I dismiss the concept of emotional eating and what I'm dismissing is the concept that that the the person has emotional issues that are driving them to do to go off the rails and to go off the program the reason why I'm trying to make this point and I try to try to clarify this so that people understand is that these are all ways of looking at the problem as if the problem the location of the problem is inside the individual that there's something wrong with the individual the the pleasure trap is the exploration and explanation to understand that the problem is not within the individual the problem is in the environment so the the problem is that the environment is now out of sync with the identity of a human being so human identity has many features of it consistent essentially our animal design and a key feature of the animal design of all animals is to eat the richest food in the environment so this is a basic ubiquitous instinct this is just how it is and so you simply have a chip in your head saying where's the richest food in the environment where's the richest food in the environment is there any rich food in the environment that I can be eating now okay this is what it's doing this is what it's going to do and it's never going to stop it's part of the design and so if you have artificially rich foods in the environment we're going to eat those and we're going to eat those way before we eat the other foods and we will not rest psychologically until they're gone and this is this is part of your essentially natural instinct system so by trying to reason this thing out and try to figure out why it is that you have this problem and try to work through some personal issues to allow you to have greater willpower to defend this this is waste of time this is not where the problem is located the problem is that you are designed for an environment of scarcity and you live in an environment not just of abundance you live in an environment of artificial concentrated abundance and so if you bring that artificial abundance into your house you're going to go crazy so essentially you have the psychology of a raccoon designed by nature to eat the rich' student environment and the wrapkin discovers a dumpster of McDonald's and that's where it lives and every night it goes in there and it tears apart all the wrappings and everything else and it gets towards the super rich food and we wonder why we've got fat sick raccoons and living in the neighborhood okay so the the reason why we have to work harder on our environment than we do on ourselves is number one there's nothing wrong with yourself and so that's step one step two the problem is the environment and the the nature of the problem of the environment is I'll stop for a minute so people can absorb the thinking here but the fundamental issue is that your mind is designed to run cost-benefit analysis on alternative options that's what you do when you go to Expedia and you're going to figure out where to take a vacation you look at all the different options to see how much they cost and what they look like etc that's what your brain is designed to do is constantly be analyzing alternative options and to be selecting the option that has the greatest benefit for the least cost when it comes to food the food with the greatest benefit with the least cost is the food that has the most calories in it / - okay and also it also analyzes the difficulty of those chews so it's going to turn out that the softer food is preferred um and so cooked soft as Alan Goldhamer likes to say beaded cheatin beated cheated stopped diced chopped the camera says it's got some clever way of saying this essentially processed so when the foods have been processed in a way and there are the kinds of foods that have been pulled apart and put back together in a way that they are far more caloric against those are the foods that would be preferred by any animal including humans and they will consume those incessantly as opposed the alternative of the whole national foods and this is a survival instinct so if you're going to have success at this program you're going to need to be diligent at essentially having habits they keep these foods out of the house rather than trying to bring them into the house and then have some kind of remarkable diligence that you're not going to eat them when they're in the house that that's asking too much of the organism and I'm not saying that people can't do it I'm just saying though they're not going to do it very well right well you know you explain this this so well we're basically a bunch of fat sick raccoon and I understand it with an animal analogy so when people say well I relapsed because I had a fight with my husband my dog died or my lost my job it's really bad for homework lost your homework right it's because they couldn't have eaten that quart of ice cream if it wasn't in the freezer no matter what happened exactly yeah that's right it's oh I don't doubt that when negatively stressful things happen the brain circles around and says what's the best cost/benefit knew that I could make can I fix the problem okay can I apologize to my spouse I shouldn't apologize to them after all they were the one of us wrong so then that options out okay so now what are we going to do and you're simply looking for the best deal and you're looking across different behavioral domains so you're looking for your relationships and you're looking for business you're looking through your cat or your dog in a chaise case yeah and but whatever it is you're just looking to make the best deal as far as your nervous system configure and if there is a screaming deal sitting in your freezer you can better believe that you're going to take that deal soonerlater and that's that's what's going to happen so on the research for example on emotional eating in stress eating has shown that there's really not much to it there's a little bit to it and it turns out it looks like it's probably just as likely or close for people to eating eating crap when they're stressed out is when they're celebrating and so it looks like and essentially any turbulence all is going to cause people to make a little shift and do something different different than what they intended so that means that the solution is not going to have to be able to stress-free life with no ups or no downs in at the roots gonna somehow master this even keel that's a ludicrous solution to the problem and it's not diagnosing the problem correctly the problem is that you're going to run cost-benefit analysis on options in the environment and if there's a fantastic option in the environment from the standpoint of your calculations of your natural history in other words if it tastes great and the reason it tastes great is because it's a tremendous amount of calories per bite then count on it whether you're bored unhappy really happy or nothing at all you're likely to swallow it sooner or later so that's I think anybody that really with work or my work probably agrees with you about the environment being important whether their environment is cleaned up or not but what about these people they're generally the people I meet that are following those strict weighing and measuring programs that say well it doesn't really matter what's in your environment you just have to like say not my food not my food and walk around all day saying not my food to coexist with that did that affirmation work because that's what they say to do in these programs just go around saying and I met and then that's not my food not my food oh my god yeah well if such things were true there would be so many there would be so let's much less need for any psychological help and I could eliminate any number of problems in 15 minutes of per session this is absurd I'm not going to say that there aren't people that haven't been successful adopting such a thing the other words there's people that are that well let me give you an example of why it is that this can be confusing for some people um if we were to take something like hypnosis hypnosis you actually use it in the laboratory with people that are confident you'll never find hypnosis being able to be help people for example stop smoking just simply doesn't work however you will meet individuals that were planning to stop smoking and wanted to stop smoking and went to a hypnotist and a month later they're not smoking and they went through this process with the SIP thing to select wow that really helped me what the people are not seeing is the fact that they had a whole confluence of factors that were pushing them to be successful at that time they had a lot of determination to do it the hypnotist was a supportive individual at that point but it wasn't the hypnosis process that had anything to do with it via in the same way that people can go to some program and they can be told some mantra and and that they might use that mantra but that mantra isn't what it is at the college I'll open here and so I already know that such such techniques are going to just crash on the rocks you are racking and you are designed by nature to eat the rich food and if it's in the environment you're going to get it if it turns out that you have a confluence of factors super-high meditation you've got a dress you've got to get into because your daughters getting married in 90 days and you decide that you're going to walk around saying not my food not my food what's really rattling through your head is not it isn't not my food it's oh my god I've got a wedding to get into 90 days and my husband's ex you know is going to be there okay there's all kinds of meditation flowing food 12 plug through that person's head that's actually the reasons why it is that they're able to hold it together the mantra on top isn't having anything to do with it so yeah that's that's not a good strategy there's a pretty good ad on TV I forget who did it that something about there's all these security leaks and threats and the guys haven't hard to get to sleep at night and he's hoping that this whole system doesn't get crashed by some outside agency and the ad is hope is not a strategy it's like of course it's not a strategy as so a mantra is not a strategy a strategy is to be diligent it actually keeping your environment in with circumstances that are going to be conducive to your success that's how to do it okay so do you think that the people that are unable or unwilling if you will to clean up their environment do you think that it's really true that they can't or that maybe they're using it as excuse because one of my clients recently told me because I said to her you know I don't care if you go out and get the food you know that's what you need to do and she said that that if she was really honest with herself that having the non-complying food in her house was a comfort to her because number one she knew it was always there and number two when she relapsed she could blame her family and number three if she had to go out for it she would really have to deal with the fact this really was a problem so we have people that say they don't even ask their family like I understand like if you have a really mean husband and he says forget and I work hard I make the money it's being there but the majority of the people in lease in the ultimate weight loss program that have unclean environment I have offered to Skype for free to their families they do not take me up on it and they will not even ask their family to clean it up so why why would you not be there because you've always said that a loving family will support somebody in recovery but what makes a person not even going to ask it's a really good question AJ and so you through several different things than me with different different people and different issues but let's just hang on to this last one that you just asked me be there there would be some very interesting reasons why people would not ask their family for help the a good mantra is if you're going to if you're going to have a mantra in your head it's a psychologist or someone who's done analyzed motives a good mantra in your head is whenever you don't understand something I always look for status so whenever you can't understand why somebody's doing what they're doing if it doesn't make sense to you always look for status and status will almost always be the variable that is the deciding factor and why they are doing something unusual that you can't figure out so in this case the situation is is that the person is embarrassed to come to the family and tell the family listen I cannot manage this problem and stay on a narrow path that I need to be on if for example I'm going to lose 30 pounds or 40 pounds so let's say let's just paint a picture picture could look very differently depending on person circumstances but let's suppose that we've got a 40 year old woman who's married us a couple of kids the kids are young and slender enough they're not having a problem the dad is slender and he's not having a problem but the lady's 30 or 40 pounds overweight and as many women are women are inherently very interested in nutrition so it's likely so she's run into us she's heard you now she's in your group and she knows the right direction to go but she's really struggling with this for several reasons but one of the biggest reasons is is there is an awful lot of temptation inside of my own house and now the question is this says she hears from us that for God's sakes you're going to have to work on your environment and get your environment as clean as possible or else you're in trouble because you're a raccoon and you're going to go through that trashcan and swallow everything in the trashcan that's rich and we're going to leave incidentally the lettuce and the tomatoes behind that's what would happen in the McDonald's trust em now so that's what that's what she's facing and the husband looks at her like hey just eat less what's the problem just use a little discipline and the kids are like why should I want to eat anything different I'm eating so they are all in the pleasure trap but they are not showing any evidence of the closure drop and no motivation to get out of the pusher drop so as a result of that she's surrounded by a supernormal stimuli ie pleasure drop dudes and all she has in her is her conscientiousness and her intelligence that are looking at this situation and they're saying Wow you know with enough conscientiousness and intelligence I should be able to you know sale this bed to the other side I should be able to do this but you can't and the reason is is that your conscientiousness and intelligence were not designed to override that instinct okay so as a result this is probably a futile you know situation pretty close I mean I'm not saying it can't be done I'm just saying I wouldn't expect it to be done and that that is an important revelation that I wouldn't expect to be done because everybody else expects it it should be able to be done so the woman herself expects that it should be able to be done and the the husband would expect that it would be able to be done and so as a result it's embarrassing to say the husband I can't do it if that stuff's in the house because his attitude is going to be Wow what kind of weird weakness is this this makes you look like some kind of a pathetic freak that has some lack of self-control here and the woman herself can be a little puzzled by this and feeling like well one of these days she's just going to have to get it together and really make a decision and get committed it's right there she's already committed she's already done a tremendous amount of research she already knows a great deal but what she's under estimating is she's under estimating the power of the environment okay which brings me back to the book that I looked they the entire point of the pleasure trap was to explain not only to normal people but also to psychologists that the problem is in the environment it is not inside the individual there's no lack of willpower there's no lack of intelligence there's no lack of conscientiousness there's no lack of intent okay but what you have is you have an instinct that is being overwhelmed by it's essentially by a super normal environment that the instinct is screaming to the individual what they should do that would be the best cost-benefit analysis for their survival and that is eat the richest food in the environment okay so the core issue here is embarrassment because she's embarrassed to to say whoa this problem is a lot harder than I thought it was and I don't think that I can solve it unless we have an important change in the environment then the problem is is that she can Intuit probably correctly that in most cases the husband and kids are going to be like no way we're not doing this we're not going to clean up this environment that's unreasonable okay and so they're they're caught in the trap too but they're not there don't have any motivation to get out of it because they're not evidencing any problems that are bothering them and so this is actually quite a dilemma here the solution is always a reduction in distortion of the understanding of reality so this is how you this is how you reduce mistakes and mistake reduce tragedy is to actually educate the mind so that the individual actually understands the reality is better so so it's important that that this person understand that this is not a personal weakness that this is not something to be embarrassed about it's actually something that they need to more deeply understand that this is actually an almost checkmate it's almost checkmate Kent can you get out of this checkmate yes again how are you going to get out of this checkmate by getting control of the environment okay that means we're going to have to educate interested parties if the husband wants to see that wife have higher self-esteem feel good about herself drop 20 or 30 pounds be more attractive if he's interested in that she needs to sit down and say listen I've now I'm now learning that this is an extremely difficult problem it's not a simple problem it's actually a problem that not very many people are able to solve unless they have support within their environment okay and so if you are with me on this if you like see me to succeed I actually need you to make some sacrifices okay otherwise I'm not going to be able to be successful so can we try this out can we give this a try for you know 60 days or 90 days and just see whether or not I can get in a groove and whether I can accomplish this this is the kind of discussion needs to be made but it can't be made from a standpoint of thinking that the problems inside you and that it's embarrassing and that we can't tolerate the status loss no we have to be confident and understanding that there is nothing wrong with you that this problem is actually very very tricky when we go from there and confronting the family you have no idea how many people you help with that explanation people are saying I thought I understood the pleasure trap but this has really reinforced it and explained it more thoroughly and without you basically talked about the people without knowing them that's exactly what it is it's usually a wife but occasionally it is a man and usually the spouse and children are thin and therefore we all know if you're saying you have to have peanut butter house because that the law apparently but sometimes the husband the kids are are very overweight and sick as well and they still don't want to do it and you briefly touched on self-esteem and does this play a role in the status and embarrassment area because you won senator mcdougal lecture at the event study weekend that the number one predictor of self esteem and a female is her weight and ever since you said that a light bulb went off because it's almost like literally the more overweight the woman is that I meet the lower the self-esteem and maybe I was just lucky because I was only about 60 pounds heavier than I am now but when I realized this because I went to true north and you basically told me about the environment I came home and I said to Charles we can't be we didn't have really crap in the environment we were already SOS tree but we have things like nuts and baked chips and I said I can't have this in the house and he said well he goes I'll just hide it I live in a thousand square foot apartment I found it and I said look I really can't have it and he said okay I'll take it to work and I mean I didn't have to be mean about it was really no I mean I guess I just assumed if you married somebody you love them and they want the best for you and it seems like a very reasonable request that's why I don't understand now I understand why that spouse will not talk to the family because of the embarrassment I really don't understand and maybe the family members will be watching this replay is why if you really loved your mother or you you're a kid this is being you know this way because when we grew up we had two choices take it or leave it and if you're the child whether you're overweight or not if you love this person and one of the best for them why would you not support them this is what I really don't understand yeah they're able to really supply my mind and I'm getting an echo are we okay okay the a one of the reasons obviously is that the individual themselves is in the trap they almost always are so in anybody that's ever walked this walk knows how tricky it is and anybody that has never walked this walk but it's been told about it has trepidation about it they don't think they want to even try to do it because they can sniff that they couldn't do it and so if you've got a wife that is saying listen I need to actually have the environment changed don't think that that husband isn't thinking wait a second wait a second where's my beer and Fritos going to go you know I mean and what about this and what about that what about my hot dogs will hold everything what about my cheese sandwiches I like to do grilled cheese sandwiches with mayonnaise what's what about that no no no we can't do this and so they're instantly going to get the dentists and they're they're also not going to have enough insight into that this is this is one of more bizarre confusing problems that face people in the modern world one of the most important ones for their for their personal happiness is understanding weight and food and how this all fits together and everybody's for rendus ly confused and so there's many reasons why they're confused that is you will see a lot of slender beautiful people eating crap you're like what is that about and the answer is you they're young is one thing but not always and the other issue is individual differences in genetics so there's people that are eating to tremendous amount of crap with both hands so that doesn't stick down just that's just biology that's how that works statistically relatively unlikely so in other words most of the time the average member of the species if it eats rich food is going to get fat now that is a that is why the United States looks the way it looks that's why the average one in the United States gains two pounds a year from her 16th birthday to a 36th birthday and it's 40 pounds overweight on or 36 birthday that is that's not a crime that's just a national process that's going on that has been creeping that direction for the last 50 years as people have eaten more and more and more process rich foods that's what's happened so beyond so but the point is is that there are anomalies all over the place so you're going to see in your own office if there's 50 people in there there's going to be 10 people that are thin and so as a result we we look at these people and people see what they're eating and they don't seem to be eating much different than anybody else and so everybody starts thinking that the reason why somebody is overweight is that they don't push themselves away from the table and they don't exercise and they're just a little bit too much but glutton and that the real solution is to get control you know not eat so much that's what everybody thinks and everybody thinks that the fatter you are the more that glutton ship that you have that's what they think they don't think of it as subtle individual differences in biology in the efficiency of digestion and very slight differences in sensitivity to feedback signals for satiation they're not thinking tiny tiny little biological variations they're thinking really big time issues of just self-control and and you know essentially conscientiousness and intelligence and willpower that's what they're thinking they have no insight into this and so that husband who wants his beer and his chips and after all all he only has a little bit of a belly he's only about 20 pounds overweight but he's 6 feet tall so it doesn't really look that bad I mean while our girl is 5 foot 3 and she's 30 pounds overweight and that looks very substantial and not only that because that body morphology and physical attractiveness is relatively more important to females in earnest females in terms of their total mate value it's going to turn out that this problem is differentially hitting the female mind a heck of a lot harder than its hitting the male mind okay I'm not saying that there aren't men that are embarrassed and puzzled about their weight there are but there are more men that are essentially oblivious or really not that upset about their their moderate weight problem whereas their lives if they haven't of a moderate weight problem are very disturbed by this and if they try to solve a problem conventionally they're going to fail and if they find out they know if the solution is that the solution is pretty damn radical relative to the the culture and so to to educate that man and family into what it's going to take to have spectacularly and lasting success on this problem means actually quite a revolution in their household into what that households going to look like that's not something for all of the people that will find us and hear about this and know what it is to do there's not going to be a lot they're going to be able execute on it and one of the reasons for that is going to be exactly the problem that we're looking at the solution once again is we have to drill into the details of this social dilemma and we have to reduce the distortions that are in sitting inside the heads of these family members so that they understand that the admission of this problem and the request for help and assistance on this problem is in no-name dick ative of anything that that is that is appropriately or would be in any way reasonably an embarrassing it's okay it is we have to be confident that we have a problem it is difficult and it is we're going to require environmental cooperation this would be the equivalent of a think of yourself as a 17 year old teenager who is discovered in the last year and a half that you're an alcoholic and you live in a family where the mom and dad both drink and your big sister and big brother both drink but they all are able to drink in moderation so they're not actually alcoholics that you are okay and you come to them and you say listen I'm in trouble and I am an alcoholic and I'm requesting that we get all the alcohol out of the house I don't mind that you drink elsewhere because I'm not trying to impose it on you I know that you guys don't have this problem that I have but for some reason I'm a little bit different and I got a problem and I need your help can you imagine the the abusive dynamic if you have parents and siblings that say that's weak that's weak okay you know you should be able to handle this it's not reasonable for us to not have alcohol in the house come on that that's imposing ridiculous price on us okay that that is obtuse to have that view and we are hopefully among educated and sensitive people we understand oh my god if your seventeen-year-old comes to you with that all the alcohol should be out of the house afternoon it's gone okay this is a team effort now and we understand oh boy we we we got somebody who wants to do something really important for themselves and they need to do it if we're not going to do it that's okay if we're not suffering that much and we're not not motivated that's okay but we're going to drink at the bar or we're going to drink with our friends the game we are not going to drink in this house now we've got somebody that's fighting for lunch so that's that's how that's the moral high ground that I would want any of our clients to have when they look at this situation and say listen you know this is what I'm going to do and I need your help and it's appropriate that you should help me and if we need to force-feed some of these family members this webinar or a greater detail of Education about this then we need to and if we have to take them through that process if we out do whatever it is that we need to do that this solution is the gentle but persistent education of the individuals in the environment because guess what they're your environment right and as you are talking Mary saying that her husband is watching this but still refuses to remove the non-compliance food from the house yes you know and I don't understand it cause like like they'll say well this is my problem I shouldn't expect people to cater to me but I always think you cater to the person that is the I don't want to say the word disabled but like if you have a kid that's in a wheelchair the whole family and the kid is in a wheelchair so you need to build a wheelchair ramp for the kid to get in and out you build the ramp and everybody uses the ramp you don't say well I don't need a ramp so therefore we're not going to have a ramp as measures were said I am sure me can't agree with you I just don't understand how a husband or a child whether they're stuck in the pleasure trap or not when they see its webinar how reasonable your request is and how you're explaining this that they would still refuse I mean I don't get it so I guess so well I alignment they're going to have to have this percolate on them and we have to be as I said we have to be persistent and we have to circle around and push and then sometimes we you know sometimes we have to demand and actually I will you know depend upon now we have to figure out what the personalities are and what the circumstances are but I have had people I've told people that have been in a battle like this food comes in the house you take it out to the garbage no problem okay if we have to play that way we will you take that food out and you empty it into the garbage can so that it cannot be retrieved then we're just going to do that a few times we see this just it's very easy to take a half gallon on a live screen and just throw it right in the garbage or put it right down the garbage disposal let's just have a fight about it it's just sometimes we need to we need to have a showdown about how this is going to be and and you know that's that's what it's going to have to be sometimes in order to to get people's attention I mean again these analogies that we've given are are actually perfectly appropriate and they are good matches for the truth and they're not exactly matches because in the case of the alcoholic are our little lady here is not in any more compromised than the guy okay she's no more of a pleasure trap addict to this food than anybody else in her family okay so it's a little bit different it's as if there are four alcoholics in the house and one of them decides I'm going to make a break for it I need everybody to be cooperative and the other ones are saying no now that this is this is sort of showdown time this is where you start pouring pouring the wine down the sink you're like yeah we are going to have a clean environment you can I I'm not imposing any other lifestyle changes on you you can go right down the street and drink all you want call an uber and get your cell phone but not in this house okay this is if you can't pull this off then you know then we've got a problem that the person may be checkmated by the fact that they are agreeable human empathic and sensitive and that the other person on the other side is disagreeable and obstinate lacks conscientiousness and it essentially lacks the the natural will to aid and abet somebody close to them and there are people with such limitations and you know as you can tell by my description I don't admire them well we have several women typing that they would their husband would divorce them if they threw out the non-compliant food maybe that would be better because then they could be skinny and then they're saying well then how can they structure their environment so they can handle it I don't see how you can structure it you know if this is this is a matter of degree so when we talk about the environment we don't want to talk about it is a sort of the fixed all-or-nothing thing the environment is a continuum of relationships between the person and different variables in the environment so a person says well I go to work and there's crap all over the workplace and there's you know I had one person I think worked at a food factory and at the food factory they literally had junk food all over the place all day long I can't remember what was being manufactured I think they work for you know Mars or MMS or yeah I mean something like that I can't I can't remember what it was the point is was it the environment that you could control in that situation is all the food that you bring with you so you essentially do as best you can by having the right to and the access to really healthy food all day long right under your hands and so now you've changed your environment so you've got better choices the MMS and the Mars bars are still floating around for free but the point is is that you've got a better chance so we've now we have changed the environment to some degree and we've made the odds of success greater we are still in shark-infested waters but it's difficult now for the people that say that their spouses would divorce them if they threw the crap out of course what we do is we go through a process of warnings and we go through a process of questioning and cross-examination and we go through a process of disagreement and argument and and then then we give them a warning and you say listen you know if you're ready to say listen I'm going to throw it out because on this next few weeks I want to really see if I can get clean I need to I need a running start at this and then maybe we can take a look at it now if your spouse is not willing to have an environment clean for a couple weeks it is a totally reasonable for you to dump that pizza in the trash now if you do that and they file for divorce Wow you talk about the worst case scenario you think that that individual literally is going to go to those lengths behind that inconvenience not a chance okay now that that is a worst-case scenario inference from a high conscientious individual who is overestimating the worst case scenario by a factor of a thousand so my attitude is you test the water you see what happens if they literally file for a divorce you can always beg and plead and say oh gee I'm sorry I'll baked in chocolate cake and then then they're not going to come home because we threatened once and threw a piece out no I don't think so what we're talking about here is if you live in essentially a very difficult environment um it it may require you to go through some difficulty in order to carve out a bulkhead of support for yourself that may be not easy to do okay it may involve some contentious conversations this is interesting it's interesting that that this would be that difficult and that we would have such self-indulgence and such determination not to aid and abet somebody in our families trying to make a positive mood these are enlightening data for people to look at those situation fair enough okay but I wouldn't be intimidated by the worst case scenario even if somebody threatened it somebody said to me well if you throw out that pizza I'm in a divorce she would be like really and they really um I think I'd be willing to call that Bluff the seventy right that's that's a my I'm all infuriated because anybody nobody should put up with that kind of hostility although I do understand that the people on the other side of this our pleasure trapped in anxious and they can feel the inconvenience of their life about that they might not be able to surround themselves with with super normal food and they're addicted and they don't want to actually face it and my attitude is you don't have to face it you just have to be mildly inconvenience right because they can still eat it outside the house that was the same right yes so many people are commenting how sad it is that people have such toxic relationships that their spouse would actually even threaten divorce like that that it is that so if somebody wanted to get more coaching on them you offer 12 slots a week it is team dynamics that or they could book a private session where you could talk them through this right yes sometimes that's useful because everybody's case is different and the personalities on the other side are different so sometimes it's useful for me to hear the nature of the personality dynamics between the two people and sort of engineer a strategy that that makes sense based on what I can tell about the people that are involved so there isn't a one-size-fits-all a lot of times so you're right sometimes it's really useful for people to call me and us to talk through like this where there's conflicts of this nature I terrific so one of the things I hear a lot and again I really think it's an excuse because I not know by the work what what do you think I'm spoiling for a fight oh no I think I think you're doing great bring bring on the guy who's going to stop this process like I'm ready to chop them up that's all right let's go it's Mary Thompson so maybe Mary will contact you so I always feel that that you know if you really want to do something you will no matter what and then a lot of what people say is an excuse and so one of the things I hear a lot is that well it's okay to have non-compliance food in the house if it's if I'm an ethical vegan it's okay like if it's a cheese pizza if it's real because I'm not going to eat it it's okay if it's real ice cream because I'm vegan but from what I see that's just having any non-compliant junk within the house it still makes you can cause a relapse maybe you won't relapse on the non vegan one but then you'll go out and get the vegan version because I think don't you believe that just having it around and having it when you have to look at it when you have to smell it I couldn't do that you know well I'm not even sure what your question is like the house should be clean even - what I'm saying is let's say you love chocolate ice cream you still shouldn't have vanilla ice cream in the house it's or like if you're an alcoholic that always trained vodka is probably still not a good idea to have beer in the house that all the junk that should be removed well ideally but this is this is where we talk about the environment being a matter of degree so there's essentially Continuum's of enticement in environments and so the what we want is we want when people are dealing with other people for example we may we may be willing to negotiate for the best environment that we can get and run an experiment behind back and so essentially if if I'm if I'm not in alcohol and I'm not in ice cream and and you've got a husband who likes to drink beer and eat ice cream then you may be willing to basically sale okay listen that's fine but I can't have any cheese and an ounce because that's a disaster for me so we we may we may wind up needing to negotiate as best we can for to get as good of an environment as we can I would agree with you that when people are trying to do an ultimate weight loss which is no joke this is a this is a very tall order for any human being to try to eat on such a narrow pathway in search of the self esteem and steam games they come from essentially being very fit and yet that not coming naturally to us if we which diet so this is this is an unusual path and a an outstanding goal for people to have not an easy one to do and it's hard enough to do if you are in a hundred percent control of your own environment it is going to be considerably more difficult if we've got other people to negotiate with I think you you also pointed out something very interesting in your own history AJ which was fascinating Charles who is unbelievably closing a very intelligent and completely knowledgeable about all this stuff and always has been on that guy literally and what about if I hide it ok so right away we see Charles who's incredibly reasonable totally on their side was instantly thinking about his own inconvenience and trying to defend his his environment okay so the and so this is it that that will tell you and then we found out that you basically said now no can do that's not going to fly so now now we you negotiated to the level that you needed to but it was a negotiation process and so people may need to go through their own negotiation processes uh and those negotiation processes may they may be mildly or moderately contentious and they I also want to play out to people the you have a very strong moral high-ground in negotiating with people about changes when you explain that the changes are temporary that you're running experiments okay uh the reason is is that it is incredibly reasonable to tell people that we're going to run an experiment for twenty-eight days and that that's all that's going to be required of them that we just need to do this to see well how it works for us quite frankly if you have a spouse that we educate gently about this that we explain what it is that we're up to that we explain what goals were trying to reach and that we ask for 28-day window of opportunity to try to execute on this if the answer to that is a bunch of Russian yet and yet and yet and my my attitude is it's it's time to get in the fence okay it's time to have a showdown and actually have a fight about it because that is unreasonable and they need to be called on the carpet for for being unreasonable that we can see that Charles being a reasonable person heated yes immediately conceded in other words you push back a little bit it's like wait a second that's going to get inconvenient my food really is unhealthy you know what if I just hide the food from so you don't know it and you ran that through your head you sit cat and Mayor Charles you're not going to hide that rich food from this raccoon no never going to happen I and so that that's why you know but but this is a process and so we want it we want to be as insensitive and it's intelligent as we can be about the people on the other side but we also something that you said that I would contradict and you said uh if people are going to do it they're going to do it cetera and I would I would actually say that kind of fits your personality AJ but it doesn't fit human human nature in general okay it's going to turn out to be the very often people would have been capable of doing something but they ran into a constraint from social pressure and they got stopped because so so many people are much more sensitive to the social pressures in their environment than you would be and as a result I'm I'm very wary and concerned about about the social pressure the people face and how that pressure that they face can easily be the difference between failure and success and so we need to pay attention to that aspect of the environment carefully and we need to negotiate it with as much intelligence and savvy as we can why wonderful you know you mentioned about negotiating it what some of the people have done in its work for them is they there is such a thing you can I call the lochs food safe so that for example like let's say the kid has they have peanut butter but peanut butter is a real trigger for the person they're they it's like dark you can't see through it has a combination so the family can still have it there but the person that struggles with that food they don't have to smell it or see it or deal with it and I can some of my very successful clients have used those to negotiate it so that the crack would still be in the house but not so that the person that has a problem with it has to see it amazing perfectly reasonable 21st century solution yeah what do you know and it's something that that I never would have thought of and it works good and they're not very expensive and they're you can put them in the refrigerator you can put them in the cabinet so so for the people that really think like nuts and chips is they work great and so that's a very inexpensive option much cheaper than a divorce lawyer so yeah you don't your environment is wherever you are so if you're on vacation and you're around rich food depth to your environment and so people struggle when when they're in that environment and have you ever noticed that I see a lot of people they can white-knuckle it through these experiences but then they go home to their clean environment then they end up binging or relapsing just from like a weak scene I mean can sometimes just being around rich food all the time just kind of like percolate so that at some point you just have to give it let's think about this there's a reason why they advertised kid okay then that is because they're doing their very best through vision and through auditory channels which is what they can reach us with they can't reach us through tactile channels and it can't reach us through olfactory or taste but they can reach us through vision and they can reach us through auditory channels on and to mitigate our behavior to eat certain foods so that's why they're the that the television is literally bump barding us with advertisements for food because it works so clearly if you are if you are being essentially the brain is in data analytic machine running cost-benefit analysis on opportunities if you keep reminding them of Papa John's Pizza Papa John's Pizza look at Papa John's Pizza look what it looks like here listening to sound of it okay watch somebody else eat it and watch the smile delight on their faces they take that bite so if all the empathic mechanisms are firing off that it words at all and of course the people are thin and pretty and cute cute kids and you know no acne and good good hair so there is winners winners eat our crap okay so these are these are all the messages well you got a cruise ship and even if you manage to hold it together you have not only seen the food and you've heard everybody snacked there let's say the food that you've been a little smell up okay so of course you've just gone through a whole week of having it advertised in your face and so I'm not surprised that even when you get out of that environment you've got all these memories what you've seen cascading through there because you've just been essentially in a very concentrated food advertisement Wow that's going to go if you go hang out with your sister and Germany at Oktoberfest and you know it's all it's all beer and I don't know not worser it is that these people eat so the point is is that if you're around a bunch of supernormal stimuli and it's hitting you at every turn yeah I would surprise me at all yeah thank you that that makes a lot of times well I think that people are going to understand that they'll probably want to watch it again and they need to know that if they need help tweaking their own individual plan that you are so affordable and so I mean it's not like people have to go to you like 50 times like one session it's what you're so good that you can hone in one and done and they can go to a see dynamic store and I didn't even know this until a week ago but you have the most amazing podcast that is live at 8:30 Pacific time Wednesday's called beat your jeans there's already 70 episodes they can be listening to that and that and that's almost like having a session with you so that that's absolutely amazing so for the people that are unwilling or unable to clean up their environment now hopefully they know that at least they need to do that they want to succeed because a lot of people say well so you're telling me I'm going to fail because I can't I'm not telling anybody they're going to fail but what I'm telling people is the people that I've seen that have been super successful like myself like shada who's lost 100 pounds had kept it off for five years like heather who has lost 300 pounds and is still losing these people have no non-complying food in their environment the ones that I've seen that have been and they don't have the cravings and it's and it's been easy so are there other things the people that either are unwilling or unable to clean up their environment and we've talked about you know the food saves or negotiation these are something else they can do like if they did more meditation or more exercises there's some way that it will help them to they don't have the environment which I think is the most important thing actually to be the truth if you understand the concept of the environment the environment is essentially all inputs into your nervous system so it's going to be who you're around it's going to be the food that's under your hands it's going to be the food that is competing with the food that's under your hands it's ten feet away in other words there's all these environmental factors and at the end of the day folks it is an environmental problem so we're not you know the only other alternative is you and that means your personality and the personality means your genes and your genes are not something that we're going to change so the people that are listening to us and are aware of this they don't need any more education about the details of what direction to go that's healthy this they already know so that that for some people that that is in a very important step and they're able to institute changes from that new knowledge they happen to be naturally highly disciplined people they may be disagreeable and pushy they're going to institute it in their own family and they're going to roll it over everybody's head whether they like it or not and so this is what we're going to do and what they needed to know is they need to know what to do okay and so then they execute so I've met some of those people and they always scratch their heads and wonder why anybody else is having a problem all you needed to do is read start solution or the China Study execute on it and you're done now or unprocess they could have read on funk but the point is is that for for the rest of us that it isn't that simple on what when we say we're not going to change our environment I want to point out that that is absolutely the only thing you've got control over because you don't have control of your personality because your personality is you so what we've got control over is the environment the extent that you make efforts to make modifications in your environment including negotiating with a partner that's a change in your environment see it's getting more prepared and knowing how to prepare food it's knowing where is that you can go to get healthier food that's easy it's making sure that we have a little nice Tupperware that we can take these things to work whatever it is it's involved in changing your environment that is how it is you're gonna be successful I don't know then the other way and they say I don't know that that there's some fantastical way that we can reach inside your mind and say I'm going to eat this but I'm not going to eat that I don't think so I think that the paying attention to environmental variables and getting more confident and more more determined sort of more diligent about environmental variables is precisely the path that we need to be paying attention to that's going to enhance your chances for better success you've said everything that I was hoping you'd say and coming from you they have to believe it and that you completely explain why people have not taken me off my offer to Skype for free with their families now it makes sense because they're embarrassed and they need to get over that and they need to have a conversation or they need to hire you to figure out how to coach them but thank you so much for just corroborating everything I've learned from you and believe that the environment is so critical because we see you've been at true north for 30 years I've only been going there seven years and I see people do fantastic when they're there and fantastic when they're locked up at the mcdougal program ship but then you see them a year later and maybe they're not doing is fantastic and that's because when they're there they're in these perfect environment to support their recovery that's correct well yeah but it's exactly so we you're the best thing we have an extension of the McNichol program and trimmer to to get people some kind of connection out there in the world that plus some other these food services I know coma Campbell sinus service that people can do so in other words people were working on these environmental problems but yeah we this is where this is now where I recommend that people at lepra North I recommend they hook themselves up with your program because they need its own support and if you guys want to take dr. Lyle in person and myself and Gustavo and dr. Alan Goldhamer and jean-pierre and dr. Kerry Sanders please consider coming to the live ultimate weight-loss conference Labor Day weekend at the Tuscany September 1st 2nd and 3rd Gustavo do you have any questions for dr. Lyle cuz he's answered all of mine brilliantly I agree with everybody else where type in comments dr. Lyle is the genius yeah really yeah really yeah genius oh they're saying that because the painting yeah I understand that makes sense so um I don't so I guess we can say goodbye to all the fat raccoons yeah okay I remember AJ to let people know about this all day videos that you and I have made their way you know one of the things is when you clean up your environment get rid of all the bad stuff you want to put in good stuff so Gustavo and I have done several webinars most of them free some of them with a small free which will show you how to keep this going and make some of the most delicious food and yeah and then get its Team Dynamics out or there's so much information there 70 podcast is like I mean he's giving you everything guys for free get a session with this guy and have him talk to your husband or your wife or the person that's not letting you clean up the environment cuz that's really just bad really sad all right folks thank you so much dr. Lyle thanks as well - Wow very good bye bye you
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