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Gustavo Tolosa: Dr Doug Lisle Live Webinar on Food Addiction, Part 2
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welcome everybody to the weekly live with dr. mcdougal webinars I'm Gustavo Tolosa the host and today we have a very special guest I think you all know of course and our guest speaker today is dr. Doug Lyall just a few words I know that most of you here are familiar with him and his amazing work but dr. Doug Lyall is a psychologist for the mcdougal wellness program and also the director of research for True North health center where I was last week and I enjoy very much my 10-day stay and dr. Lisle has lectured at Stanford Cornell and other universities and is the co-author of the pleasure trap mastering the hidden force that undermines health and happiness and he is also the founder of his Team Dynamics you can visit his really great work website with so much resources there are so many resources at his Team Dynamics dot org I will put it here in the chat so you all can can have it and I have to say a few words now as I consider myself a friend now doc de Lisle I've had a few sessions with him and I've had the chance to visit with him I need a lot of people when I travel a lot of people in the health profession and in the arts as well as you all know I'm a pianist and I do meet a lot of smart people but I want to say this and it comes from the bottom of my heart and I want to embarrass embarrass you dr. vile but he is one of the most intelligent and smartest people in my opinion he's up there in the genius category I think that what he has to say deserves to be heard by everybody in this world and everybody here to they are very lucky to have access to dr. Lyon and I want to welcome you dr. Lyle and thank you so much I know you're in California in Santa Rosa how are you doing today here and everything's great thanks for having me to solo you know you're welcome this is my pleasure and today we have a ton of questions way more than we can possibly cover in about 45 minutes that we have with you today I encourage everybody to watch the previous two webinars that we did with you where you answer so many important questions so I will try to do my best to avoid asking questions that were addressed in previous webinars and go with new ones so I have questions that people have already submitted and I will give priority to those and then but go ahead and write down questions everybody here in the chat area and I will try to get to them I know dr. Lyle that you would probably be able to spend an hour on each question because of course your knowledge is so vast and I just want to ask you to see if you can give the most concise answer to see if we can just pack in as many questions as we can this this morning if that's okay with you very gently dying to start but I know I've heard you speak and I can tell you there are some questions here that you can do a whole seminar on just one so I mean is I really do so are we ready you would have to go on so here's the first question how do you feel about 12-step programs for addiction in general and for food addiction in particular 12-step programs can be immensely helpful for people this depends on this is very much an individual thing so for example a a being the original major model for 12-step certain characteristics of the 12-step model are problematic for certain people based on their belief structures and also their personalities and so for some people it just it's not a good it's not a good fit for other people it's a very good fit and so the and so it's essentially you have to figure that one out that's one that you have to learn by doing and see whether or not it it fits with with who it is that you are the when it comes to eating 12-step readings I would say that again it's the same kind of an idea the person gets this is a very good social support system for them and it's a useful thing for them to now sponsor and have all this kind of support in a structure or what to do during times of the day when they may be weak but then it's fine however well often what is being taught will or the concepts there are not necessarily that square with with human nature so I would say that if you can stand to if you can use the social support that you can stand to kind of keep your mouth shut and not the arguing with people when you learn better than they know if you can you can essentially it's like any group if you can benefit from the group but not have to feel like you have to educate the group or they're wrong then it's a good thing so this is my feelings about it are are not strong either way it's truly my feeling about it is completely pragmatic in nature and each individual has to learn by doing very good thank you very much here's another question all of the programs this person says all of the programs that I have looked into that treat food addiction and I know you've talked about food addiction really not means for addiction but like Oh a and FA a have you wane and measuring all of your food even non starchy vegetables on a food scale for the rest of your life and we loading into your sponsor who what are you going to eat the day before this seems like a like madness to me and not very sustainable what are your thoughts about this yeah this is exactly the problem is that these types of programs usually at their core they don't understand what we understand here at the mcdougal program so however believe it or not some people have personalities where this works well for them and so it can be something that they may do for awhile and it helps it may help them ringing in some of their more excessive you know habits so I do think that fundamentally there's some serious mistakes there and I actually was was talking to a friend of mine who was witnessing a lady that's in this type of a program at she was at lunch she was a business lunch and the lady who's you know it has a serious weight problem that has not changed in years is in one of these programs and but I think it was cheese and cheese chicken and salad dressing all over your salad and literally scooped off the cheese the chicken and salad dressing and then stared at her plate and said oh all that's left is the less no this is unless you actually grasp what it is that we talk about here at the mcdougal program you're probably going to be in trouble so but if you carry this information into these other arenas with you and modify what what is that they're talking about you know in the direction of some sanity then then sometimes the social support would be useful all right right well that is a kind of a funny story okay another question the programs that treat food addictions say you can only recover if you eat animal protein the few that allow a person to be vegan say you must eat a lot of beans and nuts both of which I'm allergic to because potatoes and sheep potatoes are not for food addicts who they say carbohydrate sensitivity do you agree with this now this is total nonsense some people that are saying this don't know anything so what can you say the the misinformation is extraordinary this were true then we would have a bunch of obese Chinese that are because we've got a billion of them over there or eating nothing back carbohydrate and the last I checked those were thin fit people so this is these are people that are that are essentially confused and or dishonest and are telling people what they want to hear which is that they're going to have to eat some steak and this is forget it we don't need to pay attention to this kind of ignorance it's tragic because people are have been coached their carbohydrates are the big evil where any physiologist would tell you that you are a carbohydrate burning machine it's very clear if you study physiology but that's how human beings are built we need a little bit of protein we need a little bit of essential fatty acids but essentially your carbohydrate brain so to think that eating carbohydrates is a problem that's ridiculous and of course the McDougall program will be totally distinguish between refined carbohydrates and whole natural products those are those are very different products in terms of values that the body deals with them and even when applying carbohydrates are not particularly pernicious they're not as pernicious as the animal food so the but to be afraid of potatoes or sweet potatoes is a is a classic and major mistake and then so know for goodness sakes if you have you're not convinced yet reread the starch solution right right well like what you said it's so true the the amount of misinformation is just monumental at this point and it's driven by money basically yeah but you said it's tragic and it's people that are dishonest they're just trying to sell something that appeals to to the other people it is about their bad habits right yeah we all want to heal and what good news The Cheesecake instead of a baked potato right I have to do it yeah okay here is a young lady that is asking that is saying that she has had a lot of success with the plant-based way of eating and she's concerned about her 20 year old daughter who's living away from home and has gained about 50 pounds five-zero over the past three years she knows the right thing to do but it's caught in the pleasure trap is there anything I can do to help her I guess this is a mother concerned about her daughter yes I would say that I'm sure the daughter is very concerned and so there's a mom you you're desperate to try to push this information sort of down their throats and make them absorb it and start to utilize it but the truth is is that probably our best move is to not touch it to stay away from this as much as you can and try to not essentially the girl knows you're if you're at home and you've got a daughter with this problem I have no doubt that that daughter knows a lot okay so she knows what direction she ought to be going but she's in the trap and she's struggling with the trap but the last thing we need is to set the expectations up that she's going to do something about it women and she starts to make the move we want that move to be very very quiet private and to have her have the self esteem start to turn as she starts to decide that she's going to do something and I'm not sure when that that's gonna hit you may you know actually I would I would point her towards my website and as being steam processes is exactly what this is about so you might want to tell tell the daughter you there's a really fun there's a fine little webinar the dr. Lyle did called the slow fast way and it seemed like a fun thing and that would be about it okay that would be about as pushy as I would get and I'm gonna one day that girl might watch that thing and then get a little bit of traction so this is motivation in this arena is surprisingly touchy and fragile and so we it's not a matter of of any kind of big push at people there are there are subtle little internal dynamics that roll now the person decide that it's worth risking their own self regard at some point to actually take a shot out of the pit some energy behind it and but you would be surprised how much risk that is for people because they they are essentially in a situation where they start to try and then they fail they feel worse about themselves and so the last thing they want to do is have that process also be public so this girl's journey is going to be quiet we want her to know what the right the best road is let's go down this direction which she obviously already knows this will percolate and this may percolate for several years before we get any traction oops I lost you I lost the audio okay okay yeah I think it's over sternum finally how much Jewish yes yeah usually less is better right yes the book that you wrote the pleasure trap did you have a certain age in mind can it in a thirteen-year-old a twenty-year-old read the book and still what do you think what are you it's a pretty difficult look so the pleasure trap is certainly for adults and as for adults that are pretty smart that they the concepts are or are not that easily grasped by say an average person now we can we can make it simpler with speech that I can call the pleasure trap you is uh is at a level that where the average guy can understand it but most people need to in order to read the pleasure trap they need to be a little bit above average which essentially all mcdougal is all because if you've read if you've read the starch solution you can read the pleasure trap but by reading reading it that this level this is this is sort of an above average thing and it isn't that that it requires this to do it but it to sort of grasp the essentials here of how the nature of this argument it takes a little bit of chops and like I said is that those chops are are the standard bearer at every little event that I've ever seen people do understand what we're talking about but this is this is not for children and the exam it's and it's not actually net for people that may struggle with with things that complexity mm-hmm all right all right very good I think there is a really good question here someone that says I have been sober clean and abstinent food abuse for thirty years I left Oh a years ago because all the members are obese that's eating plant-based whole food the obsession to abuse food has left I agree with dr. Lisle that fool is not an addiction it is an obsession with processed crappy food I guess that was a good comment and the following that comment would you just briefly comment on what is them or what are the main differences between what people call food addiction and emotional eating yeah that's uh that's a fruitful thing to talk about I suppose the I don't actually like all of this food addiction precisely even though we could and it would be I think it's it's possibly in most cases overly dramatized the addiction addiction technically not that that we have to wander into what's technical but in what's technically considered addiction in in the world of psychology and psychiatry is that you actually have a major withdrawal process and and so the perspective to do we don't have a major withdrawal process we have an annoying mild withdrawal process however the way I like to look at this is to say that it's addiction like or it certainly has addiction like characteristics and actually it's what I would consider kind of a mile addiction but the thing is about it is that because when an addiction is mild it can still be just a gentle force that's constantly pulling you in in the wrong direction and so but it's not the same this is not like breaking off a heroin or breaking off an alcohol so it's a very different psychological process than going through those extraordinarily tumultuous the covers the it's more in its closer somewhere halfway in between a bad habit and an addiction is the way I would look at the whole quantum of the closure travel through respect to food the simply incidentally this is also why it is not actually clear the best path to do it when we are when we're dealing with addictions it's almost always the best move with respect to addictions essentially is that as fast as you can you try to get completely clean and you you set up everything in your life you get rid of your friends you get rid of your drug dealer you have somebody lock up the money you do everything different so that you can't get to or that you won't you set up barriers because essentially one slip and being tremendously problematic food doesn't have that same characteristic typically they would spur most people so here's what I'm getting at solving an addiction problem usually involves on and the reason yeah is that the nature of the substance itself is so disturbing for brain chemistry that you that we essentially that's our best bet now I want to point out that you don't you don't have off any other problem in life that way every other problem in life learning to walk learning to talk learning to play the piano learning to do now everything else that you have ever learned to do you actually do it in successive stages where you get a little bit better at a time of breakfast with addiction the the big push is that you get completely clean all at once okay now why the and the answer is because the substance itself is so problematic that that literally it's your best chance okay it isn't that it makes sense it's just that we have a completely unnatural problem that was calling for an unnatural solution now with respect to food you know this is the argument that rages in our field and emits sound folks like my friend dr. Alan Goldhamer and probably John McDougall and most people say look you ought to be completely clean because if you're one inch over you're just going to get a toast into the trap now why did they say this because they've seen people with that level of problem okay but I would also as someone who has worked belly-to-belly with you know a thousand people on this issue I know that that isn't true for everybody okay so this is not like heroin it is not as simple as a bad habit it's somewhere in the middle and some people can attack this problem in successive stages quite well in fact many people do it so many people get rid of the meat first but they can't get rid of the dairy for a while a year or two later then they get rid of the dairy because then they got to learn to make those changes and then have to get rid of dairy in the and the meat then maybe they start to get rid of the oil in other words so very many people do this journey and successive approximations without going you know 100 to zero so this is this is how it is that I think about this issue but I do not think about it is one way or the other I think about it as an addiction like problem that every individual has somewhat different strengths and weaknesses with respect how they can best manager now emotional eating is a ways out of buzzword I get that question all the time and I am almost puzzled by what people mean and I sort of do know what they mean but I'm going to tell you that I have a very negative reaction to that concept and I have it for the following reason because there the there's an underlying theory it sits under the concept of emotional eating that says this all right so this is what I'm reacting to so when people hear me reacting negatively the concept of emotional eating this is what I'm reacting to what I'm reacting to is essentially psychodynamic theory in psychology that says that the reason you're doing this is for deep-seated personal problems they this is not true folks you are not eating for any deep-seated personal problems this is not the case the reason I can I can prove it in about 18 different ways first of all extensive research on eating disorders has shown that the eating that you have people with for example overeating compulsive overeating do not have any other psychological problems that are not directly related there there is no additional other problems in their life okay the other pathologies the it is also the case that if you put this food in the in the cage of any animal on earth they absolutely prefer it and they will absolutely eat the junk food okay so the issue is is that since we already know that this is the characteristic pattern of animal life of course this is what we're going to expect now so now people are confused because they are compelled to towards rich foods and yet they know that they shouldn't do it if they want to lose weight and look better and feel better so they have great cognitive dissonance over this issue and when they when they fail in their willpower and they wind up indulging they instead of saying well I just defaulted what any animal on earth would do following the extraordinary powerful instincts that have been built into me by nature instead of inferring that they are confused by their own failure and they say it's some horrible underlying problem that I must be having that is driving this there is no underlying horrible problem but we need to excavate with psychobabble they what we have is an extraordinarily challenging situation that it actually requires everything to be in a very good line for you to defend against it today I think I probably didn't say this last time but this is how I look at healthy living I look at healthy living like being in a 17-2 miles under the ocean which remain this pressure but the water is trying to get into that submarine effectively and if you're in that submarine you know that if there's one little rivet loose the water is going to come in and then behind that that opportunity it's going to push those rivets further and it's going to sink that some way but the pressure is everywhere this is exactly analogous to what healthy living faces that your mind is actually full of pressure telling you to eat rich food and you are in an environment where you are surrounded by it okay the rich food is trying to get into your submarine it is pushing like crazy to get into that suddenly if everything is right and all of the rivets are in good shape and the pressure is not too great you can keep the water out okay but as soon as we get any kind of turbulence we get moving too excited we're with our friends we have a little tough stuff at work we're having to stay up late and take care of business the kid is crying till 4:00 in the morning in other words people then think quote they eat for emotional reasons and then that's why they get into junk and what I'm telling you is now life turbulence causes there to be a lowering of your defenses and once your defenses are lowered then the water rushes in okay and once a little bit gets in it's a lot easier for the rest together so this is whoa the process of emotional eating and don't be thinking that if you're struggling with this it means that there's anything deep and strange and it needs to be excavated because there isn't what there is is a surprisingly and deceptively difficult organizational challenge for your life and we need to focus on the details of literally where is good the food going to be when you're hungry and how are we going to get it into you these very interesting or actually an interesting you know minor-league technical details of how it is that we can get healthy food close to us so that outcompetes the junk food it is everything right you have other video yours I can clear in your head cocoa okay we do I know how to do that from here all right did I just lower my volume a little bit yeah someone pushing asking about if you have videos on your website but I think you do and I think many of your videos are also on dogs from like Google's website is that correct yes okay everything isn't everywhere at once but yes there's videos on my website that are free and as well as a lot of audio things where I answer specific questions so there's a lot of good stuff there okay and it is it's Team Dynamics dog or right okay and also just want to mention that you also do from this Team Dynamics dot-org people can contact you and set a one-on-one session with you by the website that's my email address and ask me questions I'm always glad to try to help anywhere I can very good very good so here we have someone saying I am NOT concerned about emotional overeating emotional in quotation marks or eating but happy to all overeater i cannot stop until it hurts even of wholefoods can one just form a habit circuit and stop it by restricting portions I would say in general this the first question I have to ask with somebody with that question is what's your height and weight and the reason is is that I will have people that that impress themselves and are a little overwhelmed with how much it is that they eat but it turns out they're completely normal height and weight so in other words what we're seeing is the hunger Drive no matter how spectacular and bizarre it looks to the individual looks like it's doing its job or with them okay now let's suppose that somebody's 10 or 20 percent overweight so we've got a person that ought to be 150 pounds and they're 180 pounds and this is what their habit is then I would say well this is kind of interesting and I it's essentially always the case that the food that they're cramming in there late in the game isn't going to tend to be the richest food that's in there that's in their kitchen and and that is because the your your motivation is run by cost-benefit analysis and so the the the benefit is to your survival for the calories and it's being judged by how tasty the food is and the cost is going to be how much energy it takes to chew it up and and also you know whatever the many that have not a cost to get it but essentially there's a there's an effort ratio plus benefit that is being run in the nervous system which is what decides whether or not we do that behavior so it's almost it's essentially never going to be the case that the person is going to chew raw carrots to the point of the time that there are stomach hurts that's because the law carrots don't have enough calories it's too much energy to chew and as essentially the cost benefit doesn't seem worth it to the organism now your remember that you evolved in an environment of scarcity so your neural circuits were designed by nature to push you pretty hard to eat and if there's extra food around push you a little bit further like your your nervous system is not aware that you are in an environment of bounty and that there's plenty of food down at the grocery store you're you don't really think that way and so if you'll you know I believe that actually people think we've seen studies of us where people at a buffet will actually be a little bit facilitated in their eating behavior because they're feeling the possibility the food's gonna all be gone or they're feeling this almost competitive process you'll certainly see dogs this way they'll get feverish and even a dog all by itself with its own moon bowl a long time sleep very very quickly this can be a program of effectively a kacct animal that is housed better get the food now and eat it very quickly because other animals are eating that food competitively very quickly so there's an anxiety about getting enough that can be you know essentially a little low-grade circuit that is sitting inside of a person that's on their couch and they're full but there's still some food around but they're the food that they're going to be interested in is going to be the highest calorie dense food that's in their house now this is the problem with having high calorie dense food in your house particularly if it's the slightest bit doctored up and when I say the slightest bit doctored up I'm talking about oh we have some nuts but they're salted a little bit okay um why would it work god forbid we've got peanut butter and bread anything that's going to be artificially rich in other words it's been processed in a way this is going to be now a supernormal stimuli with respect to the cost-benefit analysis of what this food has worked for the organism so essentially you've got a nervous system is cataloguing that you've had enough to eat and you can feel the stretch in your stomach and you don't feel anymore hunger and you're actually getting a stop sign well the only thing that will go back to stops through a stop sign is a car that's moving too fast and a car that's moving too fast is a is food that it's not natural so I rarely see any behavior that looks like this if the food is truly natural the probably the only thing that I'm going to see with natural food might be hand and nuts and seeds late in the game after your completely fall but anything and if that's true we're gonna check and make sure those nuts and seeds are raw if there are in fact raw then then you know then that's uh that's sort of the an exception that I'm not shocked by again it's in a natural situation because we would never have unlimited access the large amounts of nuts and seeds particularly they'd have been shelled okay and they're all convenient and ready to eat so when you look inside this question once again what we see is we see the human nervous system in its natural form sitting right next to our on top of an unnatural situation and that's what's driving the behavior okay so we need to look at look at behaviors in that way and see but I think most of the time from this the people that asked that question we're going to find out that the food that they're cramming in has been doctored and is a high calorie density and that's what they're piling in on top of the other food once they're satisfied and that's what we have to look out for right right well there may be more specifics to this person asking the question and without going into more details if she has more questions that she probably would need to ask you in person because we could go on for a long time but it's a very good question so what about the biological differences that let's say allow one person to eat fat and not be overweight and then another person that just looks at something that is fattening and it gets you know overweight by not even trying it or having a little bit one person is asking are some of us just doomed to be overweight or or and then others never des or never Destin basically to be thin we do know is there a way out yes and nobody's doomed to be overweight no animal in nature is designed with neural circuits that would cause it to systematically over eat okay that would be a biological disaster and the genes are not built that way so whoever you are and whatever it is that you're facing you are actually not designed to be fitted now here's our level the there are certainly major individual differences in how sort of thick and curvy human beings are and so there's there's interesting you know historical reasons why it is that that's true certain people have have ancestors over the last thousand years that lived in habitats where there was periodic famine and all it would take would would be for your ancestors of the last 600 years to have several of those individuals have lived through an extreme famine somewhere and if they did they were the ones that have the genes that had extra cut off okay so as a result that gene could be passed down to you today and therefore now you're living in an environment that does not have any family and so you are likely to be thicker or curvier than another individual so these this is the these are reasons why there's individual differences in people and I now notice genetic differences do not dictate that anybody's ever affect other words you are designed by nature with a hunger Drive that should be hitting your your motivational systems in a way that you should get this right now if you're not getting a right and you're overweight there's there's one primary reason why that's true and that's that the food is artificially rich they if you were eating the food of your natural history even with those genes all of those genes are going to do is they're going to make you ten maybe ten percent heavier than someone who might be average so let's suppose it's let's suppose it's a woman who's five foot four and the average woman on an excellent diet and lifestyle would be 125 pounds yeah our girl is 135 she's just that much curvier okay and so she's naturally thicker and but she's not fat absolutely the fat content is higher that she's in excellent physical condition but very possible you could have with or something I've got but if you have those genes and we let those genes loose in a world where a bunch of processed food then we're going to have that person by the time they're 50 is going to be 185 pounds and and the reason is is that that those genes cannot handle they cannot handle the richness of the diet and so your you are not doomed at all if you first move I have many people over the last 20 years of working with John McDougall where they find out about this and they eat and MacDougal die and after the mcdougal diet they lose their got a hundred pounds to lose and they lose 50 and then they stop okay and it's like wow what's going on there and what's going on there is the mcdougal diet is an excellent diet and it's a healthy diet however it the normal mcdougal diet has some processed food in it of which most people are completely fine with so pasta bread veggie burgers etc in other words this is these you know if they're biochemically good foods they're not a problem however over some people they are a problem because that amount of processing is actually want natural and there are for a few members of our species 15 or 20 percent of them we're still going to overeat on those foods so then we have to go do essentially in the maximum weight loss plan where we are getting rid of those foods and while minimizing them for very low level and then they'll lose another chunk of life now we can actually find people that even on that they might be 10 percent overweight so forcing that it ought to be 135 might be 150 or saying oh I'm doing the maximum let us plan well then we have to look inside even within what they're doing and we may find a few other little quirks for example it could be that they're under exercise and so that so we have to understand that our ancestors were fairly vigorous exercises now most people don't need to be vigorous exercises in order to to be it an excellent weight but a few people need to do more than they're doing so they might say well I thought that if I did you know thirty minutes three times a week that was all my heart needed it may be all your heart needed but it might not be all that your jeans need you if you're if you're in an environment where there's plenty of food and you've got nothing you know Kirby jeans and at that point you may need to exercise more like our ancestors and believe me your ancestors worked on a heck of a lot harder than people do in the modern environment even they go to the gym ok so our ancestors were were foraging all day long and working pretty hard and working many miles and so as a result sometimes that needs to be tweaked not that four hours a day but it may need to be tweaked in order for people that have a little bit more success so this is nobody is doomed yeah your your nature would never build you in a way to be unattractive and have extra weight that you can get caught by predators or have extra weight where we put extra pressure on your joints that would not be optimal and no way would your nature want you to waste the time and energy to get food that you didn't need so your biology is built beautifully to get this right if you are not getting right even though you're doing a quite a good job it just tells you that you've got particularly thick genes and you need to need to attend to fine details in order for you to be fine now would you say that and then no circumstances someone would need to control portion sizes ever well let's talk about portion sizes of what the bright let's say that it is someone that follows yeah pretty strict like there's going to be there's going to be I've heard of people that will eat gaius or somewhat unbalanced that might just be very very heavy in the starches and there are individuals that if they do that they'll keep extra weight on them but again they're not eating a natural diet that that's actually not a natural diet for our species that's what diet for our species would have a considerable amount of raw food today and you look at when you look at people in in how we gather societies they essentially are eating raw food all day long and then they're eating that cooked food at night now we don't have to do that damn it's this a problem but people that that are are eating just for example and this is a minority of people but there are people that that if they skip over the vegetables and they skip over the fruit and they skip over the salad and all of their eating essentially is very heavily laden starch diet they could be overweight okay there they might be looking for a healthy and their blood looks good because it's healthy food but they might actually be struggling with their weight so that is possible so I would say it's not going to be possible you don't have to restrict portions as long as we're getting a diet that reflects the diet in the natural history of the species and that means you know fruits it means often I see people doing a two out of three major things well so they'll either have salad and starch or they'll have vegetables in storage but they don't have salad and vegetables and storage okay it's what I call the two out of three plan and so two out of three you know for most people is great two out of three for people that have very curvy or thick jeans is very likely not going to be good enough so all three pieces have to be in puzzle you know essentially on a daily basis that's behalf of how we have to look at our buy it salad vegetables and start yeah we can grow fruit in there but we know we need fruit and through this low calorie density and so that's not a problem but salad vegetables and starch all three are the components of a balanced diet all right all right very good very good answer a very good question dr. Lisle says here I if you found yourself suddenly stuck in the pleasure track what would be your plan of action that's a good question I think I think maybe I don't even know examines really thought about it but I would say a couple of things that I think are fast ways out the probably the biggest problem with the pleasure trap is and particularly once you know and understand it is that there's a self-disgust that comes with us where we are frustrated with ourselves you have an internal audience but I've spoken about in other videos that essentially watches you and judge you and and when you when you are disgusting your own internal audience you there's a tendency to just not care just say forget it and whatever and this basically act like a high school kid who has kind of been rejected for a date and then he acts like he doesn't care okay this is human nature so as we essentially protect our own self regard by acting like we don't really care and then acting in ways that are making it very clear to ourselves that we don't care and in order to change that and shift that we need to have an enhancement of our own self Authority it's very useful to know that that enhancement can happened very quickly it cannot happen through internal self-talk you know clogging of therapies talking back to the internal critic isn't going to do it neither is any kind of what he called it just you know yeah whoo happy pop psychology we're going to look in a mirror that Stuart Smalley on Saturday Night Live parodied for all those years this is not going to do it let me tell you what does it your internal audience is completely intelligent they're watching you and they know exactly what you're doing yeah if you impress the internal audience that is the quickest way to turn this around and make yourself care and get back in the game today and the quickest way to turn around your own internal self regard with respect to health behaviors is to exercise vigorously and let me tell you what okay if you decide well what I ought to do is eat a healthy meal and really get back on track the problem is if you eat manage to eat a healthy meal in two in a row on the day that you're gonna via reticle II turn this thing around you know you can give this thing back at midnight with inbox full of tofutti cuties you can blow this new régime very easily and likely will so the problem is is that's not going to enhance your self regard and so you get no good voice from inside sending you did a great thing whereas if you go to the gym and you exercise a new exercise berry water to the point where you know what it's like oh man I'm gonna feel this tomorrow that you push yourself and you're like now I'm not going to back off while you read on I push myself just that much further if you push yourself and you walk out of that gym an hour and 20 minutes later like whoa and I'm in if dr. Lyle had seen that he'd be like wow did you push it don't don't injure yourself and have heart attack but I'm talking about pushing those muscles very hard to the point where there's wobbling and wiggling and you they're kind of shaky walking out of it that's what I'm talking about it let me tell you what happens your internal audience knows how hard you worked okay and you can't give it that you can't blow it at night with took booty cuties because the truth is you earned it and the internal audience says you whoa if you work hard okay that would say wind at the back of your internal self-regard that other healthful behavior cannot because it was gritty and it was hard and you you did some suffering and edited through I one of my very favorite clients is just just the love and she's a she's a woman that has actually very naturally high self-esteem now but she struggles with this and she goes back and forth and gains 30 pounds lose 30 pounds gains 30 pounds lose 30 pounds and this has been going on for 20 years I've never and so one one day she texted me and she said Doug I just need you know I just need one of your quick things it'll make me feel better about myself I'm so disgusted I've gotten fat again you know I just I just don't feel like doing anything about it and I'm just depressed and you know say something and I texted her back and I said go out of the gym and workout really hard day your internal audience will will not be able to miss it and you will feel the self esteem that comes with having impressed yourself from doing the hard work I said skipping the junk food today we won't do that that will not give it to you but if you go and work really hard this afternoon you can turn this around about how you feel about yourself and give yourself some momentum and she texted back three minutes later that is so right I know that'll work in fact I feel so good I don't even have to do it to actually be thinking along those lines so I thought that's my best walk very good very good well dr. Lisle we have to close this session today I we have a lot more questions we look forward to seeing you the second Tuesday this month was a little different because dr. mcdougal was on a trip but we have your schedule as long as you're willing to do this with and be so generous on the second Tuesday Thursday sorry each month so we'll see you in just a couple of weeks then right fantastic see you real soon great to see you Gustavo as always very good me too thank you everyone for joining us and remember to send questions to webinar at dr. McDougall comm and I promise I keep your questions even if we don't get to them right away but at some point or another will answer them and now we have three webinars so we have done with dr. Lyle go back and review them I did actually don't rely oh maybe you hopefully you'll be proud of me and I took a lot of notice as I was you know I'm going backwards like though as I was watching the webinar they're so packed with the information that I thank you again thank you always great to see you Gustavo and sorry I couldn't get everybody's question but we'll cover as much ground as we can very good very good thank you everyone have a great week and we'll see you next week with dr. McDougall he will be back from his trip to Alaska and we have a really really good session planned for next week thank again goodbye don't smile that's five bucks okay bye bye
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