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Episode 98: Evolutionary psychology in 2018
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good evening everybody it's Nate G along with dr. Doug Lyall with the beat your genes podcast we are here in 2018 s first show of the year dr. Lyle how you doing today good good how you doing I'm doing good doing good so we've got a lot of questions rolling in so really appreciate everybody sending us your questions we put them I put them in the queue and we get to them as soon as possible so if you haven't heard your question for a while don't worry it's still in the queue and we'll get to it eventually we had a really good year last year in terms of our listeners we reached about almost three hundred twenty five thousand lessons total and one of the really cool things is one of our listeners actually created a Facebook group or it's called the fans of the beat your genes podcast so Haley I just really really want to thank you for putting that together so if you guys want to go on Facebook and discuss some things there we go now we have that doctor a bullet on that it's so cool isn't it I don't even know how to use Facebook but I have never logged in to Facebook I have a Facebook page that I have I don't know how to get into it so that that's pretty pretty cool thing all right very good all right well we've got some questions today and funny enough the very first questions we we we pick today has to do with social media and this is not a comment on Haley at all it is just it just a just you know just went in the order that it got so alright so dear dr. Lyle what is the esteem dynamic of people who decide to share their lives and watershed moments with life moments like graduations birthdays anniversaries on Facebook and other social media platforms are they lacking in self-esteem so they are looking for other people's esteem and approval is this some sort of signaling what are the Big Five personality traits that might be associated with regular social media posters who share their lives versus people who are more private and don't wonderful question alright so just to answer the last question versus it occurs to me it's I believe that we're going to find that people that are on Facebook are far more likely to be extroverted than people that are not so that's that I'll bet you that there's a big main effect for that now let's talk about why people would do this behavior so we're going to back up for a second and we always begin the investigation of the reason why anybody is doing anything the first place we start is we understand that they're that they're running a cost-benefit analysis so they take the time in trouble to do Facebook because they're running a cost-benefit analysis of that activity against all other activities that they could be doing with that time and energy so at the root of it the reason why people are using Facebook or anything else under the Sun or they're doing anything else on the Sun is because their brain playing a three-dimensional chess with evolution is essentially believing that it's the most efficient use of their time now it's the most efficient use of their time for what for getting a hold of something that it's the most efficient use of their time for survival and reproductive optimization so we can't quickly connect the dots and say well how does that translate to me having more children or anything else under the Sun and what we're really going to be looking for is we have to go down a level and understand that the currency that drove human success and evolution was esteem and so they are they are looking for esteem so now let's get let's get clear what these different words or different terminology is when we're talking about esteem esteem comes from the word to value it so esteem means that we are valuable which means we are worthy of effort and energy etc and it means also that that we are esteemed more than some other object event process or person in other words it's there is something about us that is worthy of energy expenditure on the part of other people or animals so an animal could esteem you very much my cat's esteem me a great deal for good whisky Massimo's validation no not validation probably people use that term that's kind of a funny term actually if we try to pick apart that what people mean by validation it's sort of a it's a fancy word with a vague meaning as far as I can tell the esteem means valued so we could use another word that a little feels a little gauche but it's the same thing which is status okay so higher status lower status you know you and I share with it with between the two of us I you have more status with me that I held a lot of other people okay so believe me there's some people ahead of you in line mate even you signed up just to automatically feel pretty good but the point is is that my head is growing as we speak yeah what you have is you what we have to do is we have to make choices we discriminate between individuals we discriminate between different types of food we discriminate between locations that we could be in we are discriminating we are making judgments of value and so we are looking to try to get as much as steam as we can because the steam is going to be translated into survival and reproductive success so the so the esteem dynamic in other words what is driving the motivation of people who share their lives on Facebook what they're trying to do is they're trying to out-compete other people for esteem in those people's lives that are watching and what they're seeking is they only vaguely and kind of unconsciously notice what they're hoping for is esteem signals and from other people like wow you're really cool you're really fancy you're fancier than other people that I that we may mutually know so what they're trying to do is they're trying to compete in in this village hierarchy to get to be thought of as having better genes being more valuable etc now there are three different esteem processes that are that are distinct the the the one that we are obviously aware of is what we call well is what most people call self esteem but it's not it's what we call esteem or being valued or being validated or whatever the hell it is or being loved or liked all of those are terms saying you are valuable to me so when you like somebody you have you are you feel a medium amount to value that's the word that we use if you love somebody that means that you value them very highly that's what that word means is it means to value highly the now so people are attempting that where the rubber hits the road and evolution is when people esteem you that means they choose you to be mates they choose you to be friends they choose to trade with you they value what it is that you do and they will swap some of their time and energy and expertise in exchange for yours so we seek to be valued that's what we are seeking now along the way prior to them actually trading with this they will also give us cues that they will trade with us so the girl will flirt with you and give you signals that you'll have sex with you before she'll simply have sex with you so there are esteem cues so those cues cause emotional actions to people positive and negative so if you get a rejection cue that you do not have as much esteem as you thought that feels bad you feel rejected disappointed you know miserable angry whatever it is that you jealous okay all kinds of nuances of negative feeling associated with negative esteem gives you feel positive pleasant happy secure or extremely excited depending upon the context of which you are receiving positive esteem kids you would be elated if the esteem cues are much higher than you thought they were going to be or that is a much more significant survival reproductive value than you know then and you had a higher value or better feedback than you expected okay you are pretty happy when the feedbacks about what you thought it was going to be and you thought it was reasonable and good good feedback and you're kind of happy or neutral or negative etc it's running the gamut from extremely positive feedback to extremely negative feedback now the and it's not just the nature of the feedback positive or negative it's also how what survival and reproductive values had tied to so if you thought that you were you were thought you were going to die of a deadly disease and then it turned out that your tests came back and it turns out that you're going to survive that it's actually a benign version of whatever it is you're going to be elated okay so it's all about how many survival and reproductive chips are on the line with respect to the feedback that we get in that case it's not an esteemed feedback it's a feedback from you know from nature about whether or not we're going to live or die now so there's three levels of esteem there is the what we are generally focused on is the real live situation where real live people are going to make real live trades with us and they make real live cues that they're going to make those trades by saying you're hired we're going to hire you we like you we're going to we want to set this up and talk over the financial details but I think you're going to be happy they just sent you a bunch of positive esteem kiss okay yes we'd really love to have you guys over for dinner next week can you make it such and such a time that's an esteem cue okay or yes I'd like to go out with you that would be terrific you know we're etc those are esteem keys then then they're the real live rubber hits the road on those trades later okay where there's real live exchange is taking place so there's esteem cues that are signals of the esteem and the esteem itself winds up being you know how much you're valued winds up determining the other people's actions on what it is that they're going to do with respect to trades as those trades results who maids friends and trade now there's another category of esteem that I've talked about off and on here that it's critical to understand the distinction and that is what we're going to call self esteem this is where you have an internal audience that is designed by nature to monitor your efforts as you attempt to improve your abilities at various and sundry displays that other people will be judging in order to determine whether or not they want to choose you in trade or choose somebody else in trade so your internal audience is monitoring how hard and diligently you are working and if you work hard and diligently at this you may or may not be making very much progress which can be a different independent emotion about disappointment your progress but your self-esteem mechanism will give you very positive feedback about you're very diligent efforts and it will give you very negative feedback if you are if you are not doing a very good job about working at whatever this process is so that is self esteem so self esteem is is a different it's a different entity it's actually a essentially a social psychological function of the brain as the brain it's as if little people living outside of you on your shoulder or watching you the self-esteem mechanism is effectively not inside you it's it's as if it's inside the heads of mythical people and they are sending you feedback as if they were real live people sending you feedback so that's the self-esteem mechanism now there is a third esteem mechanism meaning the third esteem mechanism is going to be what I call pseudo esteem so pseudo esteem there there is self think of this in layers there is a self esteem mechanism that is actually your own internal judge judgment of you there is an esteem mechanism which is your responsive 'ti to cues from real-life people about how much it is that they value you or do not value you then there's going to be a third level of possible sensitivity and competitive process which is going to be at the level of what I call pseudo esteem so pseudo esteem is going to be when people know of you by reputation they they have not actually they do not know you they are not actually trading with you they are just learning of you okay so you can imagine this evolved as a potentiality as human groups got larger than 40 50 60 or etc thing you can imagine particularly in early agriculture or suddenly you've got villages of two or three thousand people and so when you have that happen you cannot be earning a steam by your direct actions and other people are watching those and the whole world simply either knows you or doesn't knows you and has an evaluation of how much they esteem you it's going to turn out that there's going to be reputational processes where people might you know 50 people get to know one hero in their little local corner of this village about what an outstanding human being is and they tell other people they say you know Joe Jones believably stand-up guy unbelievably good shoemaker and if he gets it wrong he'll get it right he's just incredibly honest decent person okay being somebody that hears of this that doesn't even know who Joe Jones is and just thinks to themselves or says you know what I'm going to get a pair of shoes from Joe Jones okay this is pseudo esteem effectively you doesn't even know Joe Jones yet so the so what you can see the phenomenal importance of pseudo esteem and it's going to turn out that human beings are going to realize that there are ways to cue people as to how much other people value them so for example when I was a teenager there Ralph or Lauren came out with a little polo on your shirt okay so if you wore a little polo on your shirt you were a little bit more cool than the kids that didn't have a polo on your shirt so everybody figured out that that was a little bit more expensive and so therefore you know you might come from better jeans because you can waste a little bit more money on a sweater because it's the one of the ones with the polo on the shirt so this wine winds up being a way of signaling how valuable you are okay same thing with a fancy car same thing with the fancy house same thing with a fancy haircut same thing with a with a club membership logo on your shirt etc a degree from Harvard University so let's look at what a degree from Harvard University is I just meet a guy and he says to us well you know when I was Harvard blah blah blah okay what is he attempting to get pseudo esteem okay the he is attempting to use that as a marketing tool I don't know anything about this guy I don't know what it is that he knows I don't know who he knows I don't know his character I don't even really know his intelligence I sure as hell don't know his ability with respect to anything that I wanted but I might want to trade with him but what he has is he has a pseudo esteem cue that actually acts as a shorthand for how much I should esteem him okay now so people are obviously quite confused about this because they are thinking uh well you know I don't know Chanel number five and a Ferrari these are superficial bullshit that human beings seek well that is true it is superficial but they are kids and the person asked you know are they trying to signal something you bet they're trying to signal something yes I was at Tahoe with bunch of my friends we had a big bonfire ie what is that about I have time and the energy and the resources to not be working on a factory floor somewhere instead I could go to Tahoe to a ski resort so I could waste those resources and go there and I had a bunch of friends which means my friends are also educated intelligent people that are trading for a lot of money so they also could go to Tahoe and then we all like each other ie the fact that I say that that we had a bunch of friends in the all we all want Tahoe and had a good time hanging around the campfire it's like and we sang songs ok what does this mean well we've got some talent in the group we've got some intelligence because they got good jobs they you know have good credit so they got credit cards that work and then we stayed at the resort we're also athletic so we went on the ski lift it's like wow they're signaling a hell of a lot of stuff and there was like 19 of us there and they are like me I'm a member of this group so therefore you would probably like me too if you were sufficiently cool because I've got a whole bunch of people that signaled that they were willing to have me dead center in the middle of that group that's why they post the thing on Facebook that's why they do it okay they are signaling that they are accepted that they are have resources to do things they're showing what they did they're showing what they eat they're the I'm having a great time here and God knows where modder a and we saw the aquarium and then we had a nice lunch then we went to Gio dilly Square or whatever the hell it is okay so this is what people are doing and so we might roll our eyes and say boy and this person asks the question is this that they are lacking and self-esteem no not at all this is no indication of a lack of self esteem self esteem is an entirely different issue and so I'm trying to slowly and painstakingly educate people that that there's three different esteem processes self esteem esteem processes and pseudo esteem okay the people it you cannot afford where you could but it is not wise in the modern world to ignore pseudo esteem processes pseudo steam processes have tremendous potential leverage so you would want to not be you wouldn't want to be miss categorized according to pseudo steam keys as to who it is that you are if you can get a Harvard degree good idea to get one okay if your kids smart enough to go to UC Berkeley don't send them to Cal State Long Beach not a good idea you don't want him fighting in a competitive battle in a lot of these markets against people that are his genetic equals but they have far better pseudo esteem cues than he does that would be a competitive handicap so we so pseudo esteem is not absurd and not superficial it is a inevitable byproduct of a hunter-gatherer creature that esteems others and now has grown into a large agricultural based you know civilizations where you cannot get your scheme you can get your esteem in a different way that is in fact useful in human decision-making through pseudo processes so that's why I have what I call the 80% rule if you can afford a twenty five thousand dollar car you should be driving a twenty thousand dollar car you don't you can think of who it is that you could trade for if they knew really who you were as a bell-curve that's your market you don't want to have to go after all of your market it's to expend in other words in order to compete effectively with other people that are advertising for in those markets you would if you were to use 100% of your available resources in order to enhance as much as possible your pseudo esteem kids you would be able to then reach 100 percent of the people in your market that you can reach with that marketing process but that is too expensive okay it's not it's not the most rational way to behave I don't have a game theorist and a mathematician to help me so I don't actually know what the the right number is but my ball estimate is a rule of thumb is if you can afford a twenty five thousand dollar car you should be driving a twenty thousand dollar car because you will be categorized generally correctly by your market as to who it is that you really are by through that pseudo esteem queue you will you will leave a few people off the table but you will get the majority of them and you want to get the majority of them but you do not want to spend all your money or your time or your resources in order to do so because you want to save those resources and invest them elsewhere particularly in the modern environment you're able to save money and money puts you in a position of power where you do not have to be making trades and commerce with your time and energy that you don't want to make because you're desperate okay so if you can afford a five hundred thousand dollar house you should be in a four hundred thousand dollar house the the whole notion is you should be reasonable you know if you can afford a $500 suit you should be in a four hundred dollar suit the notion should be just in general and in principle you should be reasonably close but not to the maximum of what it is that you can afford for anything because you want to be saving resources to be in a position of power okay that way you aren't it is not costing you very much to not send the maximum pseudo steam signals Facebook is a fascinating sociological phenomenon you are watching the importance and the seduction of pseudo steam the pseudo steam inherently has a potential amount of fantastic amount of leverage because you don't actually have to have people know you watch you learn about you and do anything for them and see the result in order for you to get the esteem you can get it in a pseudo process okay so you can see the feverish feel that people have where they feel like damn I could maybe get a lot of steam okay I might be able to put myself in a position to get exposed and sell a much larger market than the one that I can get to directly and therefore cherry-pick people from the larger market that would be potentially more valuable and optimize my actual esteem trades if I can opt if I can maximize my reach okay this is this is what's going on and so people are you know addicted basically to the the potential of the of the energy conservation it comes with a leveraged process I have to tell you that the more I look at this and the more I feel for this this this has the hallmarks of what I wrote about 20 years ago in the pleasure trap so processed food is very exciting to the human nervous system because the nervous system is wily enough to understand that that processed food it's picking up cues from the food from the chemical concentration that it can tell that it's more energy per cubic centimeter than the food that is not processed and as a result the nervous system is attracted to it like a moth to light it's like that is a really good deal remember that the two constraints of life are time and energy so you're only going to live so long you've only got some so much time you don't know what that is but you have an inherent biological clock that estimates this you also only have so much energy you have so many neurons can fire so often and so many muscles can contract so intensively you've only got so much neural and muscular energy to you to produce the outcomes that you want to optimize survival and reproductive success that being the case this organism is designed by nature to look for shortcuts that's why the Predators go after the weak to sick the slow the isolated and injured they do this automatically because they're designed by nature to seek this out this is why animals prefer cooked food because they can already tell that they don't have to chew through and adjust it it's a lot softer ok that's why humans prefer cooked food this is you know this is why we like fire this is why we not only like you know the feel of the fire we like the look of the fire we actually like the sound of the fire and we actually like the smell of the fire all these things human beings like because fire was an extremely useful method for reducing energy expenditures now Facebook is an energy expenditure pleasure trap mechanism in the search of pseudo esteem that's what it is and so your so it's not the only thing that it is Facebook can you know obviously it can be very much used in business for the same reason ok effectively done effectively more effective marketing tool the potentially effective so this is what it is so the people are not in any way necessary lacking self-esteem because self-esteem isn't necessarily in the in the landscape here you can see though what this questioner was asking because it's tickling something there's something about it that seems out of balance and it is that you can you can sense that someone who is investing a great deal of energy in seeking pseudo esteem is essentially pleasure trapped by this process they are they are this is now going outside the normal bounds of pseudo esteem seeking in humans in normal signaling to each other directly for real-life people that they bump into physically during the day but but they want to have queues to signal who it is that they are no now we're talking about people that you're never even going to meet and the putting investing a lot of energy these pseudo steam keys is is a is a fascinating seduction and when people do a lot of it I would say hey they're probably you know they're really chasing their tail they're probably not just self-esteem deficient their esteem deficient and that's really where the rubber hits the road that they're feeling a hunger and they're not getting enough esteem cues from real live people that they value enough to feel satiated okay that doesn't make them bad and it doesn't make them sick at all but it makes it potentially if they're spending a lot of energy there it's telling you that things are they're getting out of balance and probably not get a lot of happiness out of it but they're not sure what to do this is very much like people that are addicted cigarettes or addicted to processed food so that's that's what I think about this thing and had I understood this 15 years ago I would have put every nickel I had in facebook hahaha okay this this book Facebook is in fact the the cigarette of the 21st century and I remember when it opened it opened at about eighteen or twenty dollars and I remember listening to a respected analysts say don't ever don't ever jump in on a new issue you know how do we know if this thing is going to succeed or fail and I at that time I I didn't understand nearly as much about human nature as I do now now like every genius in retrospect I've got this thing nailed now we see what it's worth okay and now we now we can look further and understand why so that's that in the story that's a great question and I hope that that gives uh gives a question or uh a lot of good food for thought fascinating all right well we've got a caller that called in right as you were answering this looks okay so it's welcome caller what's your name where you come from hello hello yes hi can you hear me yes we can hear you welcome to the show it's Nate and dr. Mayo hi guys so my name is Molly and I am calling with a question I work in the criminal justice system on the probation and parole and and I have an individual on my caseload right now who is sort of an interesting case I guess mm-hmm so she's very proven pretty difficult to work with um I think she would probably check a couple of boxes on the Harris checklist I think she probably has some sort of personality disorder though I don't know what and she's not been formally diagnosed with anything she attempts to manipulate quite often but is not very good at it so it's usually pretty transparent and she spends more time seemingly I guess trying to run teams than she would like she spends more time and energy trying to purposes him than she would if she actually was just doing the right thing so my question is how do I manage someone like that and why would it be that you would spend more time and energy doing the wrong thing and I guess the right thing when that would be easier um and I guess how do I you have any tips on how to manage that when I don't have much of a carrot pain hmm okay well what you've got is just a there's a reason she's on probation or parole or whatever it is she is right she broke the law and it probably wasn't the first time so the law being what it is it was probably the 27th time it's finally caught and and so we know that she's a very very likely to be I mean not everybody that's on probation or parole is low conscientiousness but you're describing a low conscientious human and you're also describing not very smart human so when you get somebody that's low conscientious and not very smart you get somebody that's constantly trying to to cheat the system and isn't very good at it just gosh okay so so all you've got here is you probably the average person in the criminal justice system is is about 90 IQ and that's probably what she is 90 IQ places her at about the called 15th percentile or so of a given distribution so that's why she's easy to catch because she's out of seven people she would be typically be the dumbest one so as a result any any shifty schemes that she tries to run the other six people are smart enough to see it coming and systems are set up to to see to it that the other six people go get screwed out of resources when they're looking the wrong way from anybody so it turns out a little dumb-dumb can't can't get her hand in the cookie jar without an alarm going off somewhere so that's called a credit report now the way we manage anybody like this and I'm not sure what it is that you're trying to manage is that we simply have very very clear very precise direct well articulated rules and regulations and penalties right and we're very dispassionate about our other penalties and whenever they make any mistakes we dispassionately dispensed the justice associated with those and that's it and probably if we're if we're going to do a particularly good job with somebody like this we want to signal to them that we're actually on their side that we have compassion for for how you know what a box they're in method but that the judge is merciless okay and that you are helpless to help them in front of the judge and and that therefore you're just informing her of what these dire consequences are very possibly going to be and that you don't have any choice at all that when you see her break any rule you must report it but is you are being audited and so so sorry Charlie this is the way it goes and I hope you come up with your probation piece next month because if you don't you may be going to the pen right not a nice place so yeah go ahead that the struggle that I've had with her so far is that her the violations have not been so severe as to warrant remand I mean and eventually they'll add up I'm sure and that'll be the result but it's really any sort of intermediate sanction that I imposed doesn't seem to have an impact on her and I don't know I really don't have much hope for her rehabilitation in the long run but I wish I would be is her crimes yeah where she embezzled money from her former employers to the tune of about a hundred thousand dollars well I guess my when I say manage I really mean like how do I motivate her to to the point that it will minimize the damage that she causes to the community in the future never happened it's a really good question Molly that what you're basically looking at is a sociopath and the the so there is no rehabilitation so this individual what town do you live in I confidentiality of this case I can't yeah no worries just uh I'm just letting you know that in the dead in Los Angeles County I'm gonna I'm going to assume that that that my podcast is not being heard by low conscientious low intelligent sociopath so I could say this probably not okay that if you're in Los Angeles County and you embezzle 100 thousand dollars you get a free pass they're so busy they don't even prosecute these cases okay if you're in if you're in Tulare County you know it's going to be the big case of the year and some DA is going to run for re-election on pinning you to the wall so the bottom line is is the flakes sometimes are too stupid to know where it is that be mining for gold and but they will never stop mining so the answer to your question is this is what I call parts as parts that friend of mine told me that how to tell if this is true or not but this is his way of saying it says an 84 Jaguar is a beautiful car beautiful car terrible rectangle system okay doesn't work and you can pull out every single wire in that thing and put in new wiring and it still won't work okay so you're what you've got is a shifty worthless sociopath who is more cost and benefit to human nature that will be true to the end of her days so no sweat parts is parts ok Airness very good don't don't waste it but save your energy for the sweet little person that can use your compassion and use a net little extra attention don't waste any time on this one ok sounds good ok alright Molly thank God we thank you very much for the phone call I really appreciate it alright doctor laughs we got we got time for one more question right I think it's a yeah yeah do you want to do the one about the 10 years of marriage the one right right the next one or do you want to do two socializing in the introvert one I have no idea just do the 10 years marriage one that sounds interesting alright dear dr. Lyle a few days ago my husband and me marked 10 years of our marriage however it was a normal day for us no gifts no presents not even a special dinner my husband was well aware of this day I prepared him a present but because his birthday follows a couple days after it was technically for his birthday he's not greedy and he buys things when necessary but this was a significant day in my life what does this indicate for you I really wanted to hear this is a thing of beauty alright alright I got I have like 50 things that come to mind on this one the first it doesn't necessarily mean anything okay it could mean everything but the the several things come to mind first of all the what counts is not what happens on this given day I'm laughing because it significant relationships I've been in I I am not at all conscious or active about quote special days or anything else and I I have a feeling that this is a derivative of not uncaring but actually sorry I didn't hear hear what your good joke was the it's a derivative I think of a lot of emotional stability and so people that are very emotionally stable don't get real excited about anything real easily and they don't get that upset about anything really easily and I've been include I've been accused to being a flat liner and I'm not nearly as bad as my good friend Alan Goldhamer who we're not really sure he's not an Android right the the so the truth is is that the question is it isn't what happens on that day because that's going to be significantly different from about people's you know traditions their how it is that how excitable they are it cetera all kinds of things can swirl around this what really counts is what is the sum total of the esteem signals that that person gives you over the course of the ten years what does that look like okay what does it look like now in year 10 so it doesn't have to do with whether they bought you a ten year bracelet from Zales okay the what counts is do they treat the relationship ie who it is that you are as important that's what counts and the and there are males who can be very very stable and not necessarily very expressive in that way and you know that can be a problem and I think it's quite possible males and females differ in how closely they monitor relationships for these signals quite possibly as a result of the fact that that females are inherently more vulnerable in relationships in general because they could be impregnated you know I mean whether or not the woman's fifty or thirty doesn't make any difference or her psychology infers that she could be pregnant impregnated and abandoned and so women are designed by nature to I believe to be somewhat more security seeking not always and trust me this could go upside down because men can be vulnerable when they feel like they've got a screaming deal and they feel like they could be paranoid worried about competitors worried about the women defecting and everything else under the Sun so they can they can be nutcase possessives but i think we are i think that in general you will find that the male psychology and anxiety about relationships in general is going to be lower because effectively they have less to lose and so I think this woman I think women let's face it it's women the Watusi signals from men that are like wow you know are you really into me are you just really important to you because it's really important to me and the males it isn't that they care less it's that they feel less threatened because they feel they have less to lose if the woman happens to be in a position where she wants to abandon them and so I believe that that leads to a differential amount of emotional volatility or sensitivity or monitoring in this situation so it doesn't mean that females are neurotic and men don't have any feelings or empathy I just feel like there's a difference there and I think that hilariously I think that this is probably you know just probably a very good relationship very smart stable people and I think the guy loves this girl but he is he's a little bit of a Flatliner it's like a 10 years just it's another day and yeah I'm here and I'm not going anywhere and I love you so what the hell let's move on my my my goodbye goodbye good friend I won't disclose the name but he what he wanted was he wanted to celebrate his anniversary by going to work so any event I mean anything of course it could mean that the person is not into the other individual but we would have to analyze the whole context of what that relationship looks like but the the simple fact that the guy didn't want to put any energy into a ten-year signal is not necessarily indicative of anything okay so that that's how I would answer that question we got to look look at the broader signalling context
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