Home 🏠
🔎 Search
Bad Transcripts
for the
Beat Your Genes Podcast & More
Episode 90: Saying sorry, Borderline personality, Multiple personality, politics
an auto-generated transcript
To get a shareable link to a certain place in the audio,
hover your mouse over the relevent text,
right click, and "copy link address"
(mobile: long press & copy link address)
 
today we're going to be talking about
some listener questions that have to do
with borderline personality disorder
multiple personality
obsessive compulsive we have if we can
get to we have a question from one of
our listeners about an episode of
erectile dysfunction he had maybe the
anxiety associated with it he's trying
to figure out why but before that but
before that I was sent an article while
I was reading it on Facebook and the
article is titled what to say to little
kids instead of say sorry and the
context of the article is this author
she is talking about how she visited a
playground at a kindergarten and she was
she saw what a little boy accidentally
stepped on this little girl's finger and
the boy went up to the girl looked in
their eye and instead of saying sorry he
said are you okay can I get you a wet
towel and she was crying but she shook
her head no and then after her tears one
way they went back to playing and so to
this author she saw this and it to her
it was saying that we shouldn't make
kids say sorry and that sorry to her is
essentially a way out that if you teach
a kid to say sorry for anything and it's
like a little hit-and-run driver where
you just say sorry you let it go and
then now you can just move on so so her
whole article is about telling people to
just say it to ask what they can do and
be empathetic and bringing them together
and she has a whole list of steps what
was interesting dr. Lau's when I sent
you this article say hey what do you
think about this article you remember
what she replied to me Adam ha ha that I
said I thought it was ludicrous but I
don't know what I said but I said I
asked you as a you know interesting
article what do you think for the show
you said great article for you to read
and then I'll bash it that's about right
yeah this is a this is sort of typical
of people that are thinking that you are
teaching children characteristics and
this is a this is just gross ignorance
and of course she's got whoever wrote
this article I assume it's a female the
that
who's interested in the childhood little
issues of children and their little
developmental processes and yeah this is
just ridiculous you don't you don't
teach your children morality you don't
have to instruct it you don't have to do
anything they will quickly learn what is
appropriate in the social environment
saying you're sorry is totally
legitimate let's talk about why I hadn't
even thought about it till now but let's
think about this if you step on
somebody's finger and you say you're
sorry that that's actually very
important communication that comes
naturally to people it's basically
saying I see that I have done something
to hurt you
but it was not my intention and since it
wasn't my intention you don't have to
worry that it's going to continue in
that it's going to escalate okay that's
extremely serious information extremely
important information and totally
natural because people are aware that
they bump into people that there's that
there's accidental contact between
individuals on in various dimensions
that we can offend we can bump into
physically you know you can imagine what
a difference it is if you have an auto
accident and you get out of your car and
you're like I'm so sorry as opposed to
as opposed to hey I'm not sorry like wow
big difference and so the idea that
sorry isn't enough and that it's a blank
check you know to mean is just a
completely stupid so that this is an
example of some brilliant social
engineering on somebody's part saying oh
no we're going to go above and beyond
and really train these super citizens
who will not just say sorry but instead
we're going to bypass that communication
and go right to you know what you can do
to to help the situation ludicrous okay
the the truth is is that human beings
will figure that out naturally in their
own good time to the extent their
intelligence and maturity and
personality will
will cause them to make those
appropriate empathic inferences and that
is that so that the whole notion that
we're going to coach teach etc etc and
make a difference in young people's
characters is just sheer stupidity but
you know what are you going to do
sometimes such is life in in the era you
know the truth is is that there there
are many many reasons for for this this
misunderstanding and you know I can just
you hear my frustration I'm really not
particularly frustrated with the author
of this article is just some pop writer
that thinks that they've learned
something deep and important than that
they've seen something fascinating and
you know important now the truth of the
matter is is that the fault of this lies
with courses throughout the United
States on in developmental psychology
and social psychology etc and the
academics academic psychology is still
ladened up to its gills in learning
theory and but there are reasons for
this and some of the reasons are
legitimate and some of them are
disgusting and both are at play here so
I don't want to give listeners the the
idea that I'm just completely and
thoroughly disgusted with anybody that
ever makes this kind of inferences about
human nature I'm not I'm frustrated well
my frustration is so let me first
explain why we're in this mess learning
theory began reach rule II with Ivan
Pavlov and kovrov had fantastic insights
and experimentation there really ushered
in a whole new way of thinking about the
brain so through classical conditioning
colossal conditioning was a great
discovery and certainly other people had
talked about associative learning I mean
that goes back for a long time but no
one had any data and no one really had a
feel for this
tell Pavlov had run his experiments with
the dogs and digestion and hitting the
belt and so that ushered in a tremendous
amount of research and then 30 years
later 40 years later BF Skinner comes
along with with operant conditioning and
really takes it takes it to a whole new
level and so behind truly grand
discoveries in classical conditioning
and operant conditioning psychologists
really did feel like this this was the
way of the world this is how the mind
works and I know I probably said this
before but man I'm gonna say it again
the the Rio because it's directly
germane to my disgust with this article
you're just talking about and that is
that the skinner by putting a pigeon in
the cage or a rat in a cage and then you
put them in a cage and they press a
little bar and the they're only get a
pellet if they do something right before
before that that you want them to do so
they spin to the left or they spin to
the right or they get up on their hind
legs or flap their wings or flap the
left wing or flap the right wing etc in
other words by by reinforcing with food
precisely what it is that you want done
you wait for them to do a behavior that
you want that's uh so for example if
it's spinning to the left you wait until
they move to the left a little bit and
then boom you present them with food and
what will happen is the the organism
then is sophisticated enough it isn't
thinking this thing through consciously
it just that the brain literally will
make that movement more than it will
make the movement of spinning to the
right it will because if the last thing
it did something it doesn't know what it
did that caused the food to come but
it's going to spend to the left more
likely than it's going to spin to the
right if the last time its punted the
left food appeared and so then you do it
again and then it'll start spinning to
the left some more and then you do it
again and then you let it spin bit you
instead of waiting until it spins 30
degrees you
wait until it spins 40 degrees and then
you'd beat it and you keep doing this
and then pretty soon you can get this
thing spinning in a circle and so the
the learning theorists bye-bye this is
called shaping and so by being able to
shape behavior in any way that they
wanted with these animals they of course
then made the inference that that this
is why animals do what they do they came
up with the inference out of this that
essentially if you got an animal from
the day it was born and you then were in
charge of what we're going to call the
reinforcement contingencies in other
words you reinforce certain behaviors
and you did not reinforce others then
you would say well that is why then
animals doing something if we could get
control of its environment and we could
get control of the reinforcement
schedules we will be able to program
that thing's behavior we will be able to
predict and control its behavior well
the fact that they can do that in a cage
and make it be truth was extremely
impressive to behaviorist and and
psychology in general academic
psychology and of course on the other
side of the equation you got the
Freudian saying look this has nothing to
do with humans humans it's all about you
know what happened in the edible stage
of the conflict between father and son
and penis and everything else of a son
so they're they're completely out to
lunch in a whole different area of the
field the but the learning theorists are
actually right in the heart of objective
science and they're their achievements
were impressive but what they did not
understand and they did not appreciate
at all was they did not appreciate that
animals came in to the game with a
phenomenal amount of pre-programmed
decision-making this is what they didn't
understand so they they didn't
understand you cannot condition a cat
act like a rat you can condition both of
them spin to the left but you can't
you're not going to condition one of
them to meow
and you're not going to have them
stretch the way a cat would stretch and
you're not going to have you're not
going to be able to condition that rat
to chase a string but you never have to
condition the cat to chase a string
it'll do it from the very for the first
time it can open at us and so the
behavior is basically ignored because it
was inconvenient and it was way too
complicated and it went a place that
they they didn't have really the
intellectual courage of chops to
understand what they were looking at
they did not understand that the
organism comes of course with the
ability to learn which it was a very
important understand but more than
anything it comes pre-programmed with a
phenomenal amount of downloaded
pre-programmed
essentially value judgment systems this
they did not understand at all and that
lack of understanding it permeates the
academic thinking in in psychology all
the way to clinical psychology and so
the and so learning theory the idea that
you essentially learn to be a human that
you're going to learn your morality that
you're going to learn the better way to
talk to somebody when you've stepped on
the finger this is ludicrous
this is essentially thinking that we
shape these people by reinforcement into
being good little people as opposed to
the idea that they're a human being and
if they're born a human being they're
born with natural empathic mechanisms
that are actually part and parcel of the
existing system that it's already in the
system to be this way you have to learn
the specific words to communicate the
thing that that you have to learn the
words of that specific linguistic
culture so you don't have to learn to
feel sorry and to say I'm sorry but you
have to in other words your brain
already knows what it is that you're
supposed to communicate in deep
nonverbal algorithms it already knows it
so the but whether you have to learn is
you have to learn to spit it out in
English okay oran Chinese or in Hebrew
or whatever languages that you have this
luckily so that though is absolutely not
taught okay this is uh the the feeling
and the action of apology and the reason
for the apology these are shaped through
evolutionary time as the the natural
neural circuits of humanity and so this
this writer and people then whoever is
that the teacher at that school or the
counselor that's invoking this ludicrous
program of teaching the children to be
more this or that way morally is just
completely wasting everybody's time and
self aggrandizing scheme all behind
learning theory and it's all ludicrous
so that's uh that's why so you know what
I didn't even tend to say anything about
this thing and we we now spend 15 years
15 minutes blasting it but it deserves
to be blasted not that these got that
these poor people these poor saps that
are uneducated trying to do this thing
but essentially my ire is for is for the
very often throughout the history of
psychology in the 20th century the lack
of intellectual honesty and courage on
the part of scientists deep in the
system in learning theory that that did
not and would not acknowledge that their
theory had a massive gaping hole and
that it in fact is essentially
fundamentally wrong and that if they
needed a huge overhaul and that overhaul
is evolutionary psychology and
evolutionary psychology is the correct
view this always disturbs people that
are more open minded and they have a
hard time believing that there's such a
thing as a correct view and an incorrect
view there can only be one objectively
correct view of psychology all other
views are wrong to varying degrees
evolutionary psychology is the correct
view from which to view psychology that
doesn't mean that there won't be debates
battles empirical questions a lot of
investigation to actually figure out
what evolutionary psychology is but the
fact that evolutionary psychology is the
correct view is really not in any
realistic dispute the evolutionary
psychology is the is the realization
that the mind and its operations were
shaped by evolution and they were shaped
by Lucian in a particular fashion that
that human there are human universals to
the motivational and psychological and
emotional architecture of human beings
that that are human universals in the so
in the same way that you have a Grey's
Anatomy of the body that you can learn
medicine and anatomy and physiology at
UCLA and it doesn't matter where you go
on earth you are a qualified doctor if
you understand that anatomy and
physiology you don't have to learn
Aboriginal physiology in you know to to
to be able to operate effectively on
those peoples you know what it is
because around the world all humans are
anatomically effectively identical the
of course with moderate individual
differences that exist not only within
gene pools but between gene pools as
well but there is a universal physical
architecture of humans and there's a
universal psychological architecture of
humans and that architecture just as the
physical architecture was shaped by
evolution so is the psychological
architecture learning theory basically
says no there is no there is no
universal psychological architecture of
humans what there is a it's a blank
slate and we learn through reinforcement
what it is that we are and what it is we
become and how moral we are and whether
or not we learn to say what can I do
instead of I'm sorry and that changes
our psychology like hell it does okay
and civility uh it makes it makes human
seem really intelligent they can learn
everything in just a few years yes
actually TV and comic cosmides and
Steven Pinker and others have have shown
that that is it's actually would be
impossible it's it's actually literally
impossible you you can't possibly learn
to be a
you have to know too much there would be
for example a young child will point at
a cup and and you'll say cup and it
knows intuitively that you don't mean
the color and you don't mean the handle
and you don't mean the hole in the
middle
you mean the hole you mean the whole
thing that you you would be impossible
for you to learn language if you did not
already come pre-programmed with the
knowledge that when you point to
something and mom says cup that you
means the whole thing that is a
phenomenally important instinct okay
without that instinct you could not
learn language it would be impossible it
would be very difficult for you to ever
figure out what the hell they were
talking about
so there are a tremendous amount of
instincts that make up what human nature
is and and let me tell you you don't
learn to be a human you just are one
alright let's move on
so you'll see got some questions yeah
that's a perfect segue to talking about
these little individual differences we
have but I have one really quick
question follow-up question about this
and that is is same sorry too often does
that make people perceive someone as
weak weaker or careless hmm well if
you're seeing things sorry let me it
depends on why so a person that may be
clumsy may be making a lot of mistakes
and having to say I'm sorry a lot and
and other people may perceive that it's
like hey what if you're sorry so much
how come you aren't more careful you
know I'm saying and so they're going to
start getting irritated and feeling like
you may have the empathy to to to
understand that you're screwing up but
you're not seemingly having enough chops
to figure out how to avoid it you know I
mean so saying I'm sorry is not a blank
check it it immediately gives you the
benefit of a doubt and it will give you
the benefit of a doubt quite often but
obviously if it's if it's overused over
and over again
then then people are going to get
frustrated that's if you're making
mistakes now what if someone is
essentially being unbelievably
submissive then then they're essentially
trying to trying to get any little thing
that they they they're sorry that they
didn't pick up all the people's trash
they're sorry that they you know they
didn't clean up the lunchroom their saw
etc people can read what that is that's
a that's a very scared person worried
about getting kicked out of the
coalition and so people pick up on that
too and that is definitely a potential
sign of weakness so and that will not be
mistreated by reasonable people but it
will also potentially be exploited by
others and so that's you know that's
part of the price of having a little bit
of a distorted nervous system that may
be essentially overly agreeable and
overly conscientious okay all right so
we're going to move on to these
questions excellent so a perfect segue
through all the little individual
differences and our first question is
about banana about borderline
personality disorder okay alright so
this listener is actually describing
borderline personality disorder and
asking because saying is borderline
personality a mental illness or simply
an undesirable personality where the
affected individual has extreme
disagreeable emotional emotionally
unstable and low in conscientiousness
she's asking because her mother-in-law
has been I was borderline personality
disorder and I feel like she's ruining
my husband's life when he interacts with
her he becomes physically and mentally
ill with headaches digestion
difficulties and depression and anxiety
her outrageous and disgusting behavior
puts both of us in bad moods and has
strained our relationship and robbed us
of much of life's joys done some reading
a borderline personality disorder and
understand that her specific type is the
wife is a waif borderline she's
constantly playing the helpless victim
card and shows no desire to develop any
healthy habits or seek therapy she's
deceptive manipulative gross temper
tantrums and
then uses threats of self-harm and
suicide to get away the intensity of the
situation is heightened as my husband is
helping her move into a new home and
community to facilitate the ideal
circumstances for her to live a healthy
and happy life but we both realized that
changing her environment will not fix
her
my husband's more involved than I would
like but he says he needs to do this for
his own conscience I'm respectful and
sympathetic because his father committed
suicide a few years ago and he continues
to live with the guilt that he did not
do enough to stop it he tells me that
he'll be pulling back his involvement
once she's settled into this new home
but at this point I'm ready to have no
contact with her and he's getting pretty
close to that as well
I've always held my tongue and let him
deal with these issues but I've reached
my limit what are your thoughts oh my
what a question let's see I think well
we're going to begin with the notion of
is this a quote mental illness or an
undesirable personality characteristic
the I'm not really sure the difference
in a lot of in most cases when people
are when people talk about personality
disorders there really isn't any
difference you can call it a mental
illness if you want that's a convenient
that's extremely convenient for
psychiatry because then there's some
pill that somebody made up it's supposed
to help it which is of course not true
the mental illness I personally my I
don't consider an anxiety disorder
mental illness I don't even consider
depression and mental illness bipolar
disorder I consider a mental illness and
schizophrenia I consider a mental
illness not because there's anything
that we can do you know anyway the long
and short of is there's people that have
some some circuits that are resulting in
very distorted views of reality and the
extent that those distorted views of
reality are are crippling then we can if
we want we can call this a quote mental
illness the particularly when we feel
like it is it is innate to the system
and there and that there may be no
possible way to change it or
significantly influence it which is
usually the case at this point in
history so borderline personality
disorder is not some illness as a result
of some virus that eats up somebody part
of somebody's brain this is a very
undesirable personality I wasn't aware
that they had quote waist type versus
probably the aggressive type I'm sure as
the other other one the yeah border
lines are are very disagreeable and
emotionally unstable that's what it is
that you're seeing it's a combination of
those two characteristics and I in my
you know I don't have data for this but
I effectively believe that it's a it's a
much more female-oriented look at that
combination I typically I think females
tend to want to be connected and invited
and included and be part of the pack
males are more desirous of being in the
head of the pack disagreeable and
unstable and males is more likely to be
considered narcissism and and so I think
it's actually very similar genetically
to a narcissistic personality disorder I
think it I think it's manifesting itself
a little different in female the vast
majority of borderlines are females
incidentally so anyway the that's what
it is very disagreeable very emotionally
unstable not fixable and so the solution
is to get as far from these people as
you can this this the husband and it
sounds like you had a father who was you
know had had its own tough situation
and the Sun sounds like a saint and he
is you know has obviously incredible
patience to be trying to take care of
his mother and getting her settled and
so on and so forth you want to do this
it's not the borderlines fault that they
are hell on wheels that they didn't they
didn't ask for this they are essentially
raw nervous systems that feel like that
others are not treating and fairly
they're totally puzzled as to why this
is and they're incredibly upset and so
they're just basically living in a Hell
a hell of a lot of psychological pain
the fact they that they inflict this
pain on others is you know fair in other
words they're just another organism out
there the essentially think of it as a
rabid dog in other words we might shoot
that rabid dog in the middle of our
driveway because that that's the the
reasonable thing for us to do and that
it seems reasonable for all concerned
but to the rabid dog it doesn't seem
that way this is not to say I can now I
can now hear a complaint to the board of
psychology okay
you should know please keep it in
context the the truth is is that a
borderline you know and all border lines
are not the same they are very different
and it's not that they have a couple of
types they have you know infinite ranges
of variation as all people do and so so
when we label them as a borderline this
is just a convenient way to to
encapsulate this more generalized idea
that these are very disagreeable and
very unstable people and they suffer and
and people around them suffer and people
that care about them suffer and people
that are under under their psychological
force so for one reason another their
children or this is no day at the beach
having a borderline mother and it's no
day in the beach having a borderline
mother when you're a kid and it's no day
at the beach when when you're an adult
and
they're an adult and so what you want to
do is you want to humanely as possible
get your life is much divorced from
their life as you possibly can and this
is an ultimate example of what I call
the disagreeable distance if you think
about disagreeable people and yourself
and the relationships with them that you
are in think of in terms of Venn
diagrams circle and circle be if you
must be interacting with them you want
that intersection to be as small as
possible and ideally no intersection but
you know there's times when so did this
this gal here can have the intersection
be unbelievably minimal and the husband
is going to have to have it just a
little bit more and but certainly
drawing lines drawing boundaries and
keeping boundaries firm this is a
problem with this is that the border
lines will escalate into a crisis and
you will feel like you must step in and
solve that crisis but when you do you
reinforce that behavior and so we have
to have some simple solutions sometimes
for border lines like if they're going
to threaten suicide it's like well you
know who to call and it's not me okay so
if you call me again I'm not going to
talk to you until you tell me your
location and then I will be calling
9-1-1 for you oh no no don't do that
okay well then find the next time this
phone rings and you're on the other end
of it and you're telling me you might
kill yourself that's what I'm going to
do so I'm just warning you but that's
what's going to happen okay you know I
care about you
but that is what is the right thing for
me to do done okay and you have to and
then if they call back and they start
whining you call 9-1-1 I've called 911
disorders and have them go through the
embarrassment of the cops banging on
their door and taking them outside bla
bla bla bla
oh no problem I've had people hauled
away and hauled down to the county and
held for a while etc too bad okay this
is
you you punish me with your personality
disorder I'm going to make sure that I
sleep at night and I know that I did you
know you cried wolf and I I responded
and that's how it's going to be okay
so that's what you do that's how you set
the boundaries and you you sleep at
night you keep the boundaries up and you
don't reinforce any of the crazy crap
and you get your life as far as little
interaction as you could possibly get
that's how you handle that all right
let's go onto the network all right we
got another question we've got a caller
on hold just for a couple of minutes so
you want to go over the multiple
personality question first and then take
the color or winter or at first yep
well let's take multiple pretty good
that should be first okay so dear dr.
Lila always expect a personality
disorder would simply a tactic used by
narcissists to manipulate people for
example that angry personality arises in
response to being told to do something
that the person doesn't want to do what
are your thoughts on this and follow-up
question will be after okay
at this point in my career I don't
believe that there is such a thing as a
multiple personality disorder I don't
believe there's ever been such a thing I
believe that there's been very funny
looking pathologies you've got temporal
lobe epilepsy that can look really weird
you can you can have some very strange
things happening but the notion of
multiple personality disorder people
might have to read about this I I read
that that the people that invented this
some psychiatrists that said that he in
mid 20th century that he had seen such a
thing got famous and then late late late
in his life and he's like 93 years old
he recanted and said he made up the
whole thing
haha apparently like this had ever been
found in the literature until he quote
discovered it and has made him famous
and all this sort of gel so I think I'm
telling this story right yeah I don't I
don't really see how this type of
process that people are suggest
exist could ever evolve doesn't make any
sense to me
the I have I've had psychologists all
bunch of mediocre people said that the
oh yeah they've seen one this is like a
badge of a Badge of Courage or you know
it's kind of like coming back from the
ward you got a Medal of Honor you know
like yeah I've seen to multiple yeah Wow
let me tell you a story there's all
kinds of narcissistic people out there
there's all kinds of they're quite
frankly they're schizophrenic that are
very odd that they will have very odd
dialog etc so there's a lot of strange
people in unusual pathology out there
but multiple personality disorder I
believe is a fiction and and you know
probably somewhere somebody will call me
up and say oh no my sister was a
multiple you know fine you know I've
heard it all I have I have seen
thousands of humans I've seen people who
who were sort of bluffing multiple in
the criminal justice system one of the
one of the most famous cases of
theoretical multiple personality
disorder was was Kenneth Bianchi the
hillside strangler in Los Angeles and I
believe in the 1970s Bianchi and his
cousin beau know I think it was murdered
some people and then they got caught and
then Bianchi you know basically sold
some psychologists that he was a
multiple oh boy did that he eat that up
and and the cops knew the district
ronnie knew that their case was going on
toilet behind this because the
psychologists were all buying this and
they're all excited about it and
reporting to each other how many
multiples they'd seen and this was going
to make them famous because you know
they they were they were the
psychologists who who figured out that
Kenneth Bianchi was a multiple you know
this is the whole there was some movie
with Richard Gere and Ed Norton about
the same same almost a remake of the
hillside strangler case same notion of
the guy pretending he's
multiple men it turns out he's just
sociopaths well again Bianchi was just a
sociopath and so the the prosecution
called in one of the great psychologist
of the 20th century Martin Horne out of
the University of Pennsylvania dr. Horne
very easily trapped Kenneth Bianchi was
uh he was trivial to do this basically
stuck stuck stuck information about what
a what a multiple is like under
Bianchi's nose and in other words gave
him basically false data on what what
does like him and Bianchi immediately
starts manifesting the characteristics
it was hilarious to watch this yeah it
was it was literally child's play for
Martin ORN to make a shambles of this
case so given the fact that about how
eager psychologists are to to diagnose
this I don't trust anybody I've never
seen anything even remotely like it I've
certainly seen hod pathology but I've in
many many psychotic people with very
bizarre very bizarre personalities but I
have never seen anything that is a
multiple and quite frankly I can't like
I said understand how such a thing would
ever be constructed so yeah I think it's
bogus all right
I tend to go on do we got a call yeah we
got a caller
all right okay call it what's your name
what are you calling from and welcome to
the show
hey name dr. Lao can you hear me yeah I
can hey it's Rob saw your daughter's
lost I know uh I don't know how I don't
know how the Stone Age I don't know how
the Stone Age brain is taking taking
that but well I don't really watch
soccer so it you know it's not very good
okay alright what's up Rob sure well I
think I have a pretty a pretty juicy
question but um okay so they're you know
doctor dr. Lyle is a vegan who just a
few weeks
so when asked about living in a commune
said that's hippie nonsense and
communism and socialism are bad ideas so
I mean this is classic Doug Lyall and
shows how brilliant he is because he
sees the intelligence and you know
eating like a vegan diet mcdougal style
true noir style diet whatever to avoid
heart disease but on the same time he's
saying here you're communist hippie
nonsense and you know communism
socialism bad ideas so and you know you
recommend a book how I found freedom in
on free world by a libertarian which you
know yeah so I'm wondering if you could
since you easily debunk everything else
just like you did in the show you did
you debunk all this stuff in psychology
pop psychology and say it's all not yeah
could you give a brief like overview of
your basic political philosophy to just
demolish people's stupid political
opinions with you no all right we'll do
that I guess shall be our final question
the the issue is that
so let me I've described this before on
a previous podcast probably last a year
ago when we're talking about the we're
talking more about politics and so I
described the nature of politics in its
evolution
the so so what you have fundamentally is
you have a political problem and the
political problem of human beings is to
negotiate the fact that there are
benefits to living in groups and there
are also costs and so the the problem
the political problem is how do we
optimize the benefits and minimize the
costs that is the problem and it's going
to turn out that a major portion of that
problem is going to be economics and the
reason why that's true is that animal
behavior is going to be directed at
securing resources and protecting
resources in order to survive and
reproduce so what the
the fundamental problem of life is the
problem of the transformation of energy
into DNA
so for plants they just sit there they
take in the solar energy if another
plant comes and overgrows them and takes
their Sun too bad for you okay there's
nothing you can do about it but if you
are an animal which you have is a brain
and a brain is attached to muscles and
those muscles can now move you so you
have a sensory system that brings in
information in or give you data about
both opportunities and threats in the
environmental space so that you can then
move or contract muscles in a way to put
yourself in a position to optimize your
opportunities and minimize your threats
and those opportunities and threats are
all directly related to gene survival so
the job of the organism is to actually
move most economically in ways that will
ultimately reproduce DNA so the animal
of course has no insight into this
needed humans doesn't make any
difference the truth of the matter is is
that's how they're shaped by evolution
to be very efficient at this so human
beings figured out as many animals have
figured out that there is a advantage to
being in groups there are also conflicts
and so political process in humans and
in chimpanzees and in other animals is
to to deal with the fact that this is
not all going to be harmonious that
there are there are going to be problems
as a result of group living now for
human beings that the the problem
ultimately like I said a great many of
the problems of human cohabitation are
going to involve economics and so one of
the great values of living in the group
is that you can you can essentially
reduce the risk of being an isolated
individual by by pooling resources in
other words we're going to all join in
and produce resources then we're going
to share them so we've essentially
become an insurance pool so the very
same process that leads to state farm
insurance on your car is exactly the
various
and process that led human beings to be
a group oriented animal now so it's
going to turn out that within a communal
sharing of the situation where we go out
there and try to grab energy ie food
from the environment and also to put in
a certain amount of energy to protect
our resources ie let's make sure
children don't get eaten and that we
don't get eaten these these kinds of
problems are going to result in
essentially rules that are going to be
they're going to come up and so animals
have instinctual rules and human beings
have many instinctual rules I you step
on my foot you say I'm sorry okay unless
you unless you meant to step on my foot
which point we got a big problem now
so what's going to happen is that that
in situations where the food supply is
going to be highly variable it's going
to be much more conducive to everybody's
survival to have more sharing and when
the food supply is going to be extremely
stable it's going to be more conducive
for people to not share so it's going to
turn out that early man in in in
situations where they were literally
insuring each other for survival and
hunting would have been a highly
variable resource so people some people
in the tribe could have starved to death
while other people had a bounty by using
a communistic sort of the situation
partially communistic situation they
wind up with everybody better off now
even in those situations we find today
that when we study those people we find
that there is a that the people who are
the most effective in hunting those
people are irritated with the people who
are less effective they are irritated at
the fact that they are essentially
subsidizing the less competent we find
competent are irritated with the
attitude of the people who are more
competent and they consider them stingy
because there's always a fight over who
gets the most and who gets the best cut
it's
etc so this is very much the the kind of
problems that you're always going to
have whenever you essentially have a
union so if you have a union and
everybody's getting paid the same
there's people that are producing more
and people that are producing less and
there's some irritation you know over
this issue this is a problem
fundamentally with communism so
communism is is a big problem because
it's conceptually the idea that we're
all going to basically divide things up
equally completely disincentivizes
individuals to try to make the most of
their movements and to try to be as
efficient and effective as they can
personally be the pure capitalism on the
other hand basically says we're not
going to share anything we're not
insuring anybody etc and this this is
going to be a situation that is
potentially problematic because you're
going to have problems when you get that
extreme that are going to start
disturbing a lot of people and so that
that's going to have it's going to have
its own stability challenges so this is
why it's going to turn out but there is
no actually correct place on a dimension
where on one on the far left of a line
we could call it pure communism and on
the far right of the line we could call
it pure capitalism in other words the
dimension here is share on the left and
not share on the right the share not
share dynamic is going to be somewhere
along that line is going to be the
optimal place for a given society at a
given place in time with a given talent
energy circumstances etc and to to a lot
of my libertarian friends they think
that the correct place is always on the
right very far right side of one and to
my communistic friends of which I have
few and it the idea is that the
correct places on the far left side of
one I will submit that there is not a
correct place on the line the correct
place can only be judged in the context
of what the variant situation is with
respect to particularly survival
resources so I give an example that if
that if you are a bunch of Englishmen on
a boat in the Antarctic on a and your
ship called endurance as frozen in the
ice since 1912 and you are trying to get
the hell out of there and survive then
it's going to turn out that if you're on
a little boat sailing in that in those
waters hoping to hit st. George's Island
in a thousand miles of open ocean
the roughest ocean in the world and
you've got eight people on that boat one
of them is great at the sextant and one
of them is great fishing one of them is
tremendous at the oars
one of them is outstanding as a sail and
sails sailing if you ate Englishmen
interdependent on that boat and every
single one of them is absolutely you
know we don't know which one is going to
be the most important because we don't
know we're going to be facing in the
next 15 minutes
if the fisherman catches a fish and
three other guys were also fishing at
the same time and the best fisherman
catches the fish the right way to divide
the fish is in eight equal parts it's
actually from each according to his
ability to each according to his need so
even if I caught that fish what I really
want is I want to divide that fish in a
way that optimizes the statistical
likelihood of all people surviving it
doesn't do me a damn bit of good to make
sure to eat my fill and have any one of
those guys get into trouble because I
don't know which one is going to be
critical for my survival this is the
checkmate to Strait lays a fair
capitalism and this is why this species
didn't evolve a straight lays a pure
capitalism psychology this species
actually evolved under conditions much
more like pure communism than it did
pure capitalism but it's actually
somewhere in the middle
and it's going to turn out that I think
a problem that the world has today
politically is that they've got a lot of
a Stone Age brain has a lot of
Communists exert sin it it's not fair
that somebody has more that disturbs
people but at the same time we live in a
world with actually very consistent
resources for food so that in the United
States nobody's hungry if you're hungry
in the United States you don't have any
help getting down to the food bank
because there's plenty of food there ok
so people are needy in other ways but
they're not needy for that and the
extreme neediness is far less than it
has been in in decades past and it's
getting course better by the day as
technology and economic capability get
greater and greater I'm not saying that
there isn't some serious need and some
legitimate poverty there is but it's not
at the same level that it was in 1960
and so what what's fading over the
horizon is the anxiety about literal
survival and so now the label is a fair
capitalist position looks more and more
defensible and basically says look we
don't need to be so worried about
sharing in fact it seems to me like the
right thing to do is to not share at all
the this is still not true we do not
live in a situation where all this is
even you know that it's easy enough for
every individual to access what they
need for even basic survival if you're a
deaf dumb blind schizophrenic without a
good mother you're in trouble and you're
going to need help and and it would be
absurd to construct a society as wealthy
as this one without some sharing so a
libertarian positions would say well we
should do it all privately and nobody
should be taxed cetera this starts to be
get gets to to the level of ridiculous
so my my overarching political position
is that our job is to figure out what is
the the optimal set of circumstances as
best we can determine to try to figure
out how
optimize people's happiness functioning
in the society that that is likely going
to be a limited constitutional
government you know not sharing a hell
of a lot sharing is as much as we need
to but as little as necessary
this is very Jeffersonian in its view
it's the notion that there's an
underlying principle that underlines my
political philosophy which is that
ultimately we want to maximize voluntary
transactions between individuals this is
the maximization of freedom and this
this simply makes intuitive sense to me
and it it it's interesting that a lot of
people are very disturbed by this they
they want to limit other people's
freedoms for various and sundry reasons
because of those freedoms disturb them
this is I think a mistake in other words
I think that I agree with the in this
view general view of the philosopher Sam
Harris and that is that there are there
are superior objectively superior
political circumstances and there are
objectively inferior ones and so this is
ultimately could be in principle an
empirical question if anybody was ever
interested and I think that we can
already see that freer societies are
both wealthier and the people are
happier that does not mean that
everybody's really happy and everybody's
really wealthy and everybody's happy
about the situation and that there isn't
some disturbing problems that come as a
result of sometimes the striking
inequalities that result from a free
free society that that can can be
striking
however the I still believe that in
general that is the the compass that you
want to aim for you want to aim for
essentially the vision of Thomas
Jefferson which is the government that
governs least governs best in general we
maximize transactions and freedom from
individuals we swallow the fact that
that some people are going to be
spectacularly wealthy and other people
will be poor but we want to make sure
that we we also in that bounty in that
wealth this is created by the ingenuity
and the incentive and the protection of
private property we also want to make
sure that we do enough sharing that we
don't have people actually in trouble
and so that's that's my view of the
thing and I laugh at hippies in the
commune because they are they are
thinking their their hearts are in an
interesting place they are they are
trying to be kind and wise and they are
trying to return to something simpler
which is all fine and a very interesting
experiment for anyone to do and possibly
a good one but the notion that you're
going to get 40 people on a few acres
and that you're everybody's going to
contribute equally we're going to divide
it equally is a riot exact that is a
fiasco and the individuals that that are
going to try to create some little
enclave of communistic nirvana are in
for a rude awakening by about their
fourth week so that's that's simply not
going to be consistent with human nature
Wow Rob there are much for the for the
call for the great question trade issue
on record dr. Lowe with your politics
Back to the top
🏃 👖