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Beat Your Genes Podcast & More

Episode 83: Q and A
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all right so are you doing today okay good are we live and cooking we are live and cooking all right very good all right so we've got a couple of questions today sure and we'll just we'll just take it from there we've got we've got a couple of questions one about a blended family we've got about a current relationship and trying to get over a sexual past and we've got a couple of other questions so we'll just take from the top and then go from there doctor are you ready for this it sounds good okay all right dear doctor well my husband and I have been married for 16 years we're a blended family I have three kids from a previous marriage now adults and he has two kids that lived with his ex-wife who are now adults and we have three young children together who live with us shortly after we got married and moved in together we moved to another state for his new job and with this new dog came many different business dinners golf outings etc he started coming home from these obviously drunk he didn't drink much at home but every time he'd have a business function he'd come home drunk I ever called him out on it and told him it was not acceptable he throw it right back in my face and get mad at me for attacking him he'd never apologized for his behavior nor would he admit that it was a problem I tried recording his behavior so I could show him when he was sober he took my phone from me and pretended to throw in the pond in our backyard and I didn't know that he hadn't thrown it away until the next afternoon well a couple years ago he got a DUI and thing that changed things for a while he's really embarrassed he tried to change but the drinking slowly started again he decided that if he didn't drive and use uber there he didn't drive and used uber instead there wouldn't be any problems but he'd come home drunk in a couple of times he could barely walk through the door again if I said anything about it he'd go off on me saying it was my problem and that he hasn't changed since I met him well fast forward to now he's realizing that this behavior has driven a big wedge between us and I don't trust him anymore he's been really trying to change for the better and knows now that I'm done and that he'll lose me if he doesn't change and so he has enough drink for a couple of months so he's trying but I don't trust him anymore feel like we have no connection I don't know how we can start over and turn our relationship back around we both want this to work don't know where to start to change things do you have any tips on how we can bring the spark back into our marriage and connect on a deeper level Wow this is a this is a so a little bit like a business that's in deep trouble and it it may survive but it may not survive so this is what's good to see is that he's actually cares enough about the relationship that he is now says he hasn't had a drink for a couple of months that's pretty serious in other words that's a that's a pretty serious attempt he's taken a serious run at this thing we'll see what happens now he's an alcoholic obviously pretty functional alcoholic odd clearly and what this means is that the recidivism rate is extremely high and the long-term likelihood of him being successful and having a life outside of alcohol is low now that doesn't mean it's zero it just means it's low so it's important to understand that that this lady's not trusting him is entirely rational and that there really can't be any trust in him at this point he's he is not demonstrated to be trustworthy he's this is not this guy's fault he's addicted to a substance that never belonged on this planet it is created by human ingenuity and unfortunately it is a backdoor trap into the human nervous system into the dopamine pathway that human beings were never supposed to know how to manage and he is the one in 20 or 1 in 10 people that genetically this susceptible to being addicted to the substance and therefore it has it has great power over him now that's not his fault but that is the way it is and so it's a little bit like you can have a great NBA player but if they have congenitally screwed up knee they've got a congenitally screwed up knee and they may not be they may not be worth anything as an NBA player this guy if he is active and consistent alcoholic he's his value as a mate isn't doesn't remotely resemble the value of a mate that this woman thought he was when she was getting into this marriage with him so the what would I say I would say that that uh but I think that that it would be useful for both of these people to have their own independent counselors to be talking to and these people don't have to be geniuses they just need to be pleasant and that they that the purpose of the counseling is not to really talk about the marriage and how to fix it because the research evidence shows that if people that are talking about their marriage and how to fix it go see they're independent people then it increases the likelihood of the marriage breaking up so that's not what we're really seeking we're seeking supportive people that are very non directive it's just a place for people to to talk and process the their personal struggles in life what what I'm suggesting here is the following that if you are trying to make a go to it with an addict you have to some ways pull your life a little bit away from them and to almost have an independent life for a while and your that's how it is so you're not going to have any spark and you're not going to have any trust and these things are going to have to be earned and this is not this isn't a case of you choosing that to be that you could be better about it and that etc it's really not it's not up to you your unconscious mind is running computations it's watching his behavior and we can be upfront about this that we would love to have the trust back and we'd love to have the intimacy back we're going to have to see some indefinite amount of time of sobriety in order for that to happen and it might be months and it might be years and it might not ever happen and so that that individual is going to if you can go two months you can go four if you can go for you can go six and if you can go six he can go a year and if you can go a year it takes about three years for alcoholics to no longer look like sociopaths on psychological testing that's because there's so much lying that's involved and it isn't it isn't their fault people a perfectly sound character are so embarrassed and so out of control and there's it gets to be so reflexive over a long period of time that their their character is essentially under assault and it takes a lot of time to get it right the now am I saying that there's sociopaths for three years nope I'm just saying that they're in trouble they're shifty and they're they don't have a real solid Center and I'm not saying three years of some magic number I'm just telling you what the research has shown so the this person the man on the other side of this needs to fight for it and the wife needs to be supportive in telling him how important he is and how much she wants him to fight for it and how much she wants there to be a great connection again but if you but if she doesn't feel it she doesn't feel it and she can communicate that she wants to feel it and that she wants you know but but it's not up to her and that she's just going to have to wait and see and and see whether or not he's got the fortitude or actually you know whether or not he you know I wouldn't put it quite in those terms but whether or not he's able to get through this and so all I can tell you is you're going to have to be patient with your own feelings because they emerge spontaneously at times and they're unpredictably when he has earned it Queenie has earned your trust then you are able to come out of your shell a little bit and you're able to be that much warmer and be authentic about it for now what you can be is you can express the truth which is that you're hopeful that you want him to do well but you are in a place where you have to hang back while he fights for this because she's fighting for uh you know the things that are most important to him against a an addictive process that it is very difficult and you know it's it's hard and not a lot of people make it through and so that's that's what I would say for our person here and it's it's a hard one you know I have to tell you that that being a therapist in the middle of dealing with I would so also say something else and that is that if there is anything going on in this person's life this man's life with respect to stressors so let me tell you about what these things would be let's suppose he's got his eye on the vice-presidency you know in his company or he's he's got a big project you know that he's got himself into or that he is you know he's got some big ambition on his plate I would recommend that there be a family meeting and that the idea is we're not doing it if there's any way to trim back the stress to take a lesser position where there's less stress less time pressure less glory on the line this is what a person needs to do when they are in fact facing down an alcohol or a drug problem they need to simplify their life they have to have they have to essentially have more free time so they can relax take hot showers go for walks you know play paddle tennis I mean they need to get their life back in balance and as healthy away as possible eat good food get to sleep on time all these things need to be the way it is if the person if the person is rattled and rest and time-pressured and performance pressured you can you can bet that you've just made the job about five times harder so this is where the notion has got to be that whatever the ambitions are to get to point x by point y in life we have to say everybody back off and what we're going to try to do is reorganize our ambitions along those lines to do less if it takes us more time to get where we're going or if we never get there that's fine the point is is that we want simplicity order rest exercise good food over and over and over again and in support emotional support but it the emotional support won't come from your spouse the emotional support is going to come for some outside person who's going to be you know competent and pleasant and not not at all pushy we just want someone who is a good solid counselor where that person if they I'm not saying every week either we're whatever they need it they need a person that they can go to and process stress with and that they can that they feel like they going to be open and honest with this is a hard journey it's one of the it's one of the greatest challenges that people ever face is to to try to get through a major addiction I would say that as I said most will fail most will not Marshall up all the resources and give it the full-fledged commitment that it actually is required to get this done if this guy hasn't had a drink in two months he is well above average that's something that rarely happens I wouldn't see rarely but it doesn't happen often with people that are alcoholics so he's got a real shot at it and however you can't force any spark and you can't force the connection on a deeper level this has to come as an emergent property of him earning his way back into this lady's trust well sounds like this cut there's a little bit of a pickle yeah sure going to be a hard one it's going to be a hard one in we've got to be patient there's a lot on the line here it's a very very big relationship for both people there's a lot invested here we're in no rush okay so this relationship and this woman can kind of sit patiently and warmly on the sidelines and let this guy know that we're cheering for him but he's going to have to do it and all of his looks at her like well is it okay now can we have sex now you know how we do feeling outside wait a minute we're going to just wait till this thing emerges we wait till it emerges and you know is it all okay now no it's not okay okay and you you don't fake anything you are authentic in your feedback about how it is that you feel and he gets the idea that this is a very very long dance this is a slow dance and he's going to need to slow down and buckle down and he's not going to earn his way back in anytime soon into this and you won't and that's okay and that and the expectations need to be that this is this is a long-term project and did the focus isn't on their connection and him impressing her that he's being a good kid it's in fact on him mastering the hidden force that is actually wrecking his life and that's that's the project that he's actually facing and you have a book that called the pleasure trap that explains this a little bit more detailed a shop right that pleasure trap Concannon Durst and what he's up against but he you know this is not this isn't so much a didactic exercise this is this is an act of of self-love where a person really needs to fight for it they they need to understand and very often if they have a relationship that is a value on the line that relationship needs to in my judgment not be so quick to take them off the hook it needs to be honest and saying you know I'm I'm here I'm here for you and I'm waiting and and I will wait until you're well and then we'll see what we've got that's the that's be straight with that kind of stance and that we drive home the point that this is a is a long slow journey and this person is not going to get themselves back in any kind of good graces anytime soon they've got a fight on their hands and they they're going to have to deal with it alright well all right we will we will hope for the best all right we've got a caller on line so we're gonna take a quick question dr. Lyle and we'll move on to the next ones do that all right and let's put them on caller your phone number two eight five five what's your name where you calling from hi this is Aaron Lemieux I'm calling from Edmonton Alberta Aaron welcome to this you know it's Aaron thanks Adam you guys yes it is okay very good Aaron all right what's happened what's happening all right so what I want to ask is I'm having a bit of an issue relationship issue with one of my buddies basically this guy when when we're on our own he's a pretty swell guy good to hang out with not too disagreeable or anything of that nature but generally when we're in a group he becomes a very condescending and insulting person particular to particularly to me so he's kind of the equivalent of somebody that puts somebody down to try and I guess raise his status I believe you comment on this in a previous episode and so I'm wondering correct me if I'm wrong on that obviously I want to know and I want to know one he seems to be doing it particularly to me I don't see him go through a lot of other people too often and right what can I do to try and address this in a civil manner because I've tried a few things already one is just ignore it that doesn't work secondly I tried to say to him in a somewhat calm way hey that's not funny man you gotta knock this office is insulting that only makes it worse it seems you'll go along lines of ho what are you getting your he leads your feelings hurt you big wimp or some of that nature and then thirdly the only thing that seems to work at least temporarily is to shame him you know just insult him right back because let's just say this guy doesn't have a lot going on in his life right now so fortunately I have to go there to get them to shut up at least temporarily I don't like doing that pencil I'm calling you to try to follow a civil manner for this or find out a civil matter to deal with this and yeah so what should I do okay here's what you're going to do you've got he's got one shot at it okay so I'm telling you right now that this guy's a waste of time okay so this is a he's got characterological deficiencies that no matter where you on you are on on this friendship Trading chip scale you can do better okay so that's the first thing I'm going to tell you now the second thing I'm going to tell you is that I if you've got some investment in some history with the sky you can give him one shot at it okay but you give them as many shots as you want I'm going to tell you the best shot he's got the best possible way to fix it what you're going to do is you go to my website is Team Dynamics comm and your team dynamics org and what you're going to do is you're going to listen to my audios and you're going to have one that's called flood the circuit I also did we also did a podcast I just remembered about this this gal that had a problem with her father we did this maybe I don't know three four months ago where her father was extremely difficult human and we reasoned our way through a flood the circuit about how we were going to try to repair a very haywire relationship flood the circuit what were what we're doing here is it's also it's also on my website I'll think think I also called the Boy Scout Jamboree trick that what this is is that we are going to load this guy with a steam and so this is we are this is stroke stroke stroke kick that's what we're going to do so when we take them aside and we're going to say listen I got to talk about something I got I got something my chest I get to get off my chest and we and we need to talk something through so if you got a little bit of time sometime we need to sit down and talk he's going to be all defensive and ready because he knows what he's doing this is not accidental behavior so he is going to be defensive and you're going to say to him listen I just going to I want to get a few things off my chest I just want you to you know sit quiet and then you can respond after this but I just want you to listen it's going to be really hard for him to agree to this but you don't start until he agrees and then then you're going to say okay here's the deal and then what you're going to do is you're going to name off everything that you like love respect admire etc about this guy and you're going to go through a process that I call attribute anecdote so you're going to say you know you just got a lot of courage I remember the time when blah okay remember the other time when blah and then you know you're you're awfully clever I can remember a time I haven't blocked so the reason we're doing this is that we are going to talk to him in a stream of consciousness manner as if it's coming right out of us and it hasn't been rehearsed which it has been and we're going to have several things in our mind that we're going to give them a bunch of credit for and we're not just going to be telling these a great guy we're telling them there's a great guy in fact because I can remember the time when you did this and he did that and I've seen you do this and I've seen you do that so we're going to say all these things which means that he will absolutely believe that he's listening to a stream of consciousness now it's important that he thinks that he's listening to a stream of consciousness because if he if that's what he infers then he's going to infer that the only mind that could have given him a stream of positive feedback like that is a mind that actually values him greatly it's the only mind that would be organized in that fashion so we flood this guy for two or three minutes you can time it okay when you practice you're going to write this script out and you're going to hit a bunch of points and you're going to have a bunch of several attributes and a whole bunch of anecdotes and we're just going to flood them okay and you just going to sit there and shock because the only time that anybody gets their circuits flooded like that is when they fall in love it's the only time that happens okay so we're going to flood his circuits and then and then we're going to say you know so that's why it's hard for me you know and all these things about you it's hard for me when we're in social situations when I've had you know a very good time with you when we're one-on-one and I feel like you're just a grand friend but when we get in social situations and you look to to criticize me I just did just that it's very confusing and so I'm you know I'm really asking you now again as I've asked you before I'd really like you to put that away and and leave it alone okay so now what we've done what this is is you have to understand all human behavior is organized around cost-benefit analysis and so he is he is now running a cost-benefit analysis on you know will the next the next time he is he is facing this question his stone-age brain is telling him hey I could raise my esteem with the people in the group by showing that I'm dominant over my friend here okay that's what he's going to do I'm going to show that I'm a better specimen than my friend I'm going to show that I in fact dominate him that's the nature of our relationship so I'm going to you know I'm going to do this since current situation now he is doing that because the value of your friend ship against the esteem that he could win from other people the esteem he could win from other people by this strategy is trumping the value of your friendship so what we're going to do now is we're going to basically highlight for him but he's got a hell of a lot more status in this friendship than he thought in fact a hell of a lot more than he deserves and so we're going to be honest and highlighting the things that are actually valuable about him but we're threatening him with the other hand okay so while we while we hand him a bagful of gold we've got a knife in the other hand it says you double-cross me and I'm going to slit your throat okay that's the threat okay and so at the end of that little interview he will have heard it loud and clear that this is essentially a final warning that you get your shit together and you you give up this cheesy strategy because you've been playing you've been playing fast and loose with someone who actually values you a lot and if you continue to pollute play fast and loose there's going to be no relationship there's going to be nobody to insult to make you look better and there's going to be nobody that admires you and respects you the way I just told you because I ain't going to be there okay so the next time you pull that stunt you lose it all now if that is not enough to modify this guy's really lowbrow pathetic desperate status seeking strategy if that is not enough to do it then hopefully that will be clear to you that it's time to bid this guy by make sense mm-hmm no I get I mean I do agree with this with this guy and hence why I want to try and fix this problem so I'll definitely try your method and you know summary kill him with kindness before you give me a great word right yes okay yeah well gonna most people yeah you were going to give him every opportunity to understand how highly he would be valued in the in the apex of possibility and if that's not enough to motivate him then he ain't worth having by a damn sight okay okay not the matter I appreciate your advice on that I do have a second question if you have time to feel her if not let's go already it's more of a general question I was wondering what role does epigenetics plan this an entire neurological song and dance and I'll let you explain what that is for the audience because you'll obviously do a much much better job than I would yeah I'm not sure what you're asking when you say epigenetics epigenetics with respect to what characteristics are you considering so I'm just wondering say there's something that your parents did or eight or whatever while you were in utero is it true that maybe somehow that could have affected the way your genes are expressed which could have affected how you're near a lot or how your um neurology formed that's possible so utero in utero is actually a very sensitive period and so it's going to turn out that if there's toxins that are ingested that that can be a problem there it's likely that possible hormonal you know fluctuations as a result of various and sundry either medications or even processes that are going on a person's life could influence things so in utero as opposed to any other time we could have some significant influences on I wouldn't say so much the genes so it's not essentially we're not talking about changing genetic structures through that we're talking about yeah we're talking about insults the organisms developmental embryo embryological process so it so in any event the light that's why I asked you specifically what we mean Jetix let me let me describe this and you you let me know whether I'm I'm explaining this in a way that you are understanding and that you're asking the way to think about epigenetics is this the the if you think about a gene let's suppose let's suppose you had one gene for skintone we're going to make it simple so you have a single gene for since skintone that gene it's gene the genetic action that results in so there's there's three players in in this drama there's environmental variance there is the gene and there is what we're going to call phenotypic outcomes so what actually transpired so let's look at this so the gene is not going to change so the gene is is the gin now a lot of people are excited about epigenesis that the genes can change as a result of environmental influence but that's actually very minor stuff okay so that that is not a big deal in biology I mean people can make a big deal out of it but it's not so here is really where the action is in in gene environment relationships the action is in the variation of environmental inputs onto the genetic code itself and then what transpires in the tissue as a result of the action of the of the environmental variation so in the case of skin piece of skin the that is that has a skin tone because of a specific gene that is it has built that you know the amount of melanin that's in the skin the what's going to happen is the if that if there's a great deal of sun hitting that gene then that's going to that's going to change what the gene is going to do about the situation it's going to produce more melanin so the skin is going to get a little darker if there's almost no light hitting this the skin then there will be very little melon and produced by that gene and the skin will be as light as it can be you can think of a continuum of how the gene is going to work it would actually produce as much melanin as it can possibly produce and it's going to produce as little melon and it could possibly produce depending upon the environmental conditions now the environmental conditions are of infinite variation so the you can't tell just how many watts of sunlight are hitting a specific piece of skin over the course of its lifetime would be difficult to compute that but we can know in principle that if you live closer to the equator and you're not wearing very many clothes then you're going to have a hell of a lot more watts hitting that skin over lifetime we're going to over give any given stretch of time than you would if you're living up north and Scotland and you got a bunch of clothes on so epigenetics is the notion that what you're going to get there's going to be the skin tone is going to be what we call the phenotype that's the that's the biological outcome of the gene environment interaction so you can see that for a given gene in the case of skin we a given gene might have a high phenotypic variance or it might have a low phenotypic variance so somebody may have a skin that it really isn't going to make a hell of a lot of difference whether they get a lot of Sun or they get a tiny bit of Sun that that skin tone is going to be much different somebody else may have high genotypic variance excuse me that the gene may have high phenotypic potential variants depending upon the environmental variances so the question in in developmental biology is is really with respect to a given phenotype ie skin intelligence personality etc any anything about the person's physical being or their psychological being these any of those those are phenotypic variances so how irritable someone is that is a how irritable they are that's a phenotype that's an actual event that you're witnessing that has a biological explanation to it so the question is the clearly there are going to be there's gene variances that are responsible for the the phenotypic variances that you observe and people so there's people that have genes that are vastly more irritable and disagreeable than people with other genes but the question is how much does the environment the environmental inputs how much are they impacting on that genetic code to have a result in the phenotypic outcome that you see now so this is you know this is the whole story of epigenetics how much variance is it well these are extremely interesting questions and we're major questions in personality in the 20th century and I suppose they remain interesting questions even though I don't find in particular interesting the reason I don't find it particularly interesting is that we can pretty well see that intelligence and personality are pretty well fixed and we can tell this by the fact that people are remarkably similar similar from decade to decade so I just bumped into a girl that young lady that came as young doctor at the place where I work hadn't seen her in ten years she went away and did a bunch of stuff and came back she was about thirty years old now she's about 40 same conversations I had 10 years ago same voice tone same sense of humor same Pleasant same easygoing same not too ambitious exactly the same individual okay ten years of experiences have gone by and nothing has changed so this is you know people do grow and develop and they alter slightly with as the nervous system gets altered through information processing etc but the genes are remaining pre variant invariant so anyway the the question that your that you were raised about specifically in utero that's a different kettle of fish you have very sensitive brain tissue there in utero it's been shown that when people have used strong hormones drugs etc during during pregnancies these can have a mage our impact on the personality ie the brains of the individuals so that's a different story but in general I in general I'm pretty uninterested in epigenetics even though people find it very exciting probably because they can sniff that somebody out there is promising that you can have massive changes in who it is that you are because quote the genes themselves can change when the truth is is that the changes that you will take place at the level of the gene as a result of environmental variance and input is very small alright no - yeah so basically like that and little - done no effect whatsoever yeah well I would say little I would say small I'd say pretty darn small so it's small potatoes that's why this friend of yours is going to be disagreeable difficult and if we come back 25 years from now we're going to find the same dude hmm so thought about that when we think about investing in the long term friendship oh yeah I've tried to do next upon this guy as much as I can already I try to keep down round but you know I don't do anything too serious with them luckily but they're all right I appreciate your time thanks for answering all my questions how's that very good thanks for calling and thanks very much for your call really appreciate it doctor oh you won't take another phone call we've got another caller on line sir oh yeah we got another one all right colored as you go save a lot I right all right I'd caller what's your name is where you calling from a Dayton dr. Lyle thrall I'll get right to it dr. Lyle you mentioned um that you don't have children and yeah this is a really important question and the question is are you beating your genes by not having kids and what I mean by that I'm 30 I'm I'm 30 years old I'm going through a bottleneck right now in the sense that I look at people I went to high school with everyone's popping out kids everyone's getting married I mean getting married is a separate thing but as far as yeah having children in procreating the normal thing to do was to have kids that even 20 years old I mean my mom had my brother when she was 18 she had me when she was 20 just born in the sixties so this is a very important thing and you definitely gave a good answer couple weeks ago about my question about having children for emotional or financial reasons which is stupid but basically what if you get to 75 years old and you just one day you just not you personally but what if someone gets 75 80 and they just wake up in a major depression because they never had kids they never like so back to the question are you beating your jeans by not having kids right all right that's that's a great question by the way it's a really good question the let's let's look at the situation the first first of all there's there's different perspectives there's a variety of perspectives that we could we could analyze and think through this question the let's let's take one perspective which is just straight scientific data so the straight scientific data says that people that don't have kids are just as happy as people with kids if not more happy with people with people with kids so right away it's I can see how it would be possible for some some guy could slap himself on the forehead on the 72nd birthday and thank oh my god my life oh because my my jeans aren't on the planet so therefore this is a terrible crisis okay the I can tell you that there are people that have for one reason or another not been able to have children and they're very frustrated with this because this was particularly women this has been my experience and hasn't been many but there been a few that really wanted to be mothers and because of biological reasons they can't be mothers there's also been women that that would have wanted to been mothers under ideal circumstances and never found mr. right and therefore time passed them by okay so these are these are things that happen and now the question would be if those things do happen are these you know Greek tragedies which people you know do people feel like their life is amounted to nothing I don't know the the single P or the people that I know that have not had children none of them have this psychology I will I will quote from from one of my a couple of people that's a pair that you know man and woman that have been married for 25 years and decided not to have children and to quote the man I quote I feel like I'm not I'm living this life and I don't have to pick up the check and he keeps he says I keep waiting when I'm gonna have to pick up the check when is this big tragedy going to happen when I'm going to feel my life isn't been worthwhile because I haven't had a child and it hasn't occurred yet ha he's 65 okay I'm also I'm in my late 50s and I haven't had any children and I have exactly the same experience which is I would have liked to have children never found miss right at the right time so it didn't transpire and and yet I still I continue to go through the process feeling like I I don't have to pick up the check so this is uh so the children are are a it I liken it to going to Rome and that is that if you if you have the choice choice to see Rome but you couldn't see you know 20 of the other world's great cities if you if you saw Rome but if you chose to not see Rome you could see 20 of the world's great cities the question is what do you do and the answer is well either way is going to be interesting and that's how I see children there is nothing like raising children I've watched it at close range I've had children and running around my house that were not in my genes I can see firsthand what the experience is like being a mother and seeing what what that looks like and what the stressors are and what the joys are etc I can read people's faces and I can understand their psychologies so it's not like this is a mysterious process the if we want to know a lot what the process is like it's a lot like having pets children are essentially like pets with your genes inside of them and so you love them to death and nothing's more important and you just want them to be so happy and to do so well and you want everything to be good but they can piss you off and shit on the carpet and squawk and wake you up in the morning and a lot of other things but it's like going to Rome there's nothing like Rome there's other great cities the world that are fascinating and interesting but there's nothing like rum on the other hand if you make the deal and you go to Rome then you don't get to do a bunch of other things so if you go to Rome and you've got yourself a couple of kids then you don't get to have a romantic relationship unfettered by child-raising that just sort of lives its own exciting Pleasant sensuous existence you don't get to do that you you get to have your tremendous amount of your time and energy directed directly towards these little pets and are they are they can they be great yeah they can be great can may be a total waste of time and a heartache and a complete waste and actually be your worst enemy yep you don't know what you're going to get it's spin the wheel and take your chances and and you can you can wind up with a lot of heartache and you can wind up with a fabulous you know little people to turn out to be your best friends and people that are the most important people in your life so it's its own adventure bed to to imagine the human life would be empty without them is the height of absurdity human life is not at all empty without children it's as full of important and exciting and fulfilling relationships as you make it Rob thank you very much Nicole we really appreciate it very good call thank you very long call all right all right doctor actually well we got two colors in one show I think we're sending some sort of record there you go that's very good all right all right next one night uh yes that is enough that's perfect for one night and then we will go over we'll get the next questions next week we're going to go over a couple of questions about getting over a partner's sexual past and in and become a kind of others in the same same realm so dr. Lao thanks very much really appreciate it as always
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