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Episode 82: Overcoming height weight financial differences while dating
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all right good evening everybody this is nate chi along with dr. Doug Lyall dr. Lyle how are you doing today good good to be here excellent well today we are titling the show overcoming height weight and financial differences while dating and it comes from a couple of questions that we've got over the last few weeks and we are going to be going over them and then we'll be going over to the rest of them so the first question is about income second question is about girls who are overweight and then girls who are and then about height differences we have a guy who is fairly short and just wanting wanting to know what to do about it so without any further ado dr. Lyle you ready for this sure why not see what we got all right let's do what we got okay dear dr. Lyle when you discuss raising children you said that the best way to check someone's income is to look at their identical twins as income which seems to me to imply that income is genetically based does this doesn't say that people who are poor just have a personality that lends them staying poor I'm asking because this would have large repercussions on the policy surrounding poverty based solutions certainly yeah the if there's one if there's if there's one big lie in this culture and their course there are many but the I have a friend that always has like the three biggest lies and they're all very dirty I can't remember I can't remember what they are but I'm sure he would remind me well wonder then you say that when you say that it's almost like you're going to tell us obscenity laws does not exist not quite the yeah the of course poverty is genetically based the Fiat now that that wasn't true you know when you had people in slavery and you have you know horrendous situations where there's massive differences in different parts of the country for example with respect to resources so there's there historically genes and and income or financial situations have not been is well correlated as they are today today the playing field is much easier and so it seems of course and there are there are differences in in situations certainly however let's suppose that you are you come from a very well-to-do family but you are in fact 90 IQ which would put you at about the say the 35th percentile and your dad a long time ago eighty years ago he was a Harvard man and eighty years ago he could have gotten you into Harvard well he cannot get you into Harvard he can't even get you into Cal State Long Beach today and that you're going to have a job with your name on your shirt that's how this is going to go down so the today circumstances of birth etc don't have nearly as much to do with where people wind up the market is much more fluid and much more Fitness and essentially cost-benefit based than it is nepotism and so on and so forth so the now that doesn't mean that it's an even playing field obviously if you you come from the ghetto and you you can't your mom is working really hard your dad isn't there and there's gunshots and you know there's a lot of things that could get in your way so we're not going to say that income is entirely genetic only the the genes with respectable personality factors in IQ are going to or going to have a enormous impact or a huge say in people's income so yes so this does have huge repercussions for policies but it turns out that the politicians either number one do not know this the facts about this or number two they have their heads in the sand or actually number three is they don't dare say it and you know when I've seen news shows over and over again it is assumed that the problem with poverty is education the problem with poverty is not education or at least it not with respect to the education that any of these people are talking about you do not educate people out of poverty with a standard bogus education that we feed people in the United States the the way out of poverty is for people to learn skills and not to be wasting valuable time between their ages of 12 and 18 when they're going to be when they are effectively Ward's of the state for several hours a day they could be actually getting an education that might be useful with respect to trading in the world earning $20 an hour instead of being a minimum-wage employee maybe so but the system cannot tolerate this politically this is an idea with no political future because people cannot stand to say that there is jak differences that are going to determine income and there's not a damn thing that any any policy is going to do about this so because they cannot stand to face this truth they will not face this truth and because they will not face this truth we're going to get the same one size fits all bogus education that is nothing more incidentally than a fitness indicator to look towards college which is mostly a fitness indicator to look towards you know who's going to hire whom to do to do what and so that's that's what's going to take place so anyway yes it does have huge repercussions it would expect that most of the policies that keep their heads in the sand with respect to these issues will continue to fail the very people that they are afraid to offend okay and this is a tragedy but nobody has any guts and so nobody's going to do anything about it there I'm support on that cheerful note we'll go on to the next one yes all right well so you're saying it's mostly due to IQ versus and admitted and so I mean Conchita I read a book thank you like I'm unconscious oh look at you read what book I've read the the willpower book by Roy Baumeister and they were basically saying that that conscientiousness are essentially ability to delay gratification was the kind of one of the bigger predictors of long-term so jokes yeah Baumeister's an academic and he wouldn't dare tell the truth either so no he can't afford to do that he lives in a in an academic liberal land and you don't dare speak the truth there so even if he knows the truth which I don't know if he does know iq dominates the show folks ah ok ok who can be a doctor someone with the top 2% I like you who can be a decent lawyer someone with a top 2% IQ who can be an OK lawyer somebody with a top 10% IQ who can be an okay doctor there isn't anybody that's allowed to be called doctor unless they've got a 98 percentile IQ not a medical doctor ok a lot of doctors psychology or walking right but the point is is that if you're going to be an electrical engineer you better have a 98 Plus percent I like you or you're not going to be able to get through class and so the this is just how it is and so the of course brains brains are so it isn't it isn't that the top people are the only people that are worth anything all up and down the scale you can't have somebody teaching school at a high school in American high school that's a 40th percentile brain how are they possibly going to do this the what are what could they teach I don't know phys ed possibly the I'm not sure what they could do they could teach phys ed and you know I've had some fizz a IDI teachers that didn't have a lot of brains so the so they could do that but honest-to-goodness who is going to teach an American history class to a bunch of 10th graders when half of those test graders are above the mean if that teachers are the thirtieth percentile for brains they're going to look like an idiot and gets slaughtered in there there's no way they can do it so the no brains are going to dictate a great deal of where it is that people are going to wind up with the socio-economic strata and that's just how it is brains are now more valuable incidentally than ever this is a this is a fabulous thing because it means that the the economic problem of essentially rearranging atoms in ways that are going to be more more advantageous for human satisfaction that it requires intelligence to do those rearrangements this has been a March the last 200 years about how essentially intelligence is replacing muscles and so essentially you're watching a major drift of economic power away from big strong men to any anybody with a brain male or female and and so this is actually a good thing as we have robots do the heavy lifting and the human brains try to figure out how what should be lifted and when and so this is going to continue on this is why for example it doesn't matter how how much they try to lean the situation to try to help people that are low on the scale they they wind up drifting further and further behind and that's because it isn't that they're that they're absolute economic circumstances are becoming worse their relative economic circumstances are becoming worse because brains become increasingly valuable and in these situations the difference between those that have more brains and those who have very few brains winds up continuing to widen in terms of in terms of economic advantage all right ok let's move on so go on something else ok ok and and overcoming this while dating is kind of what you've said before is you you kind of get what you get and if you're getting in this market with whatever your IQ or whatever your financial situation is that is kind of you can trade for what you can trade for and there's very much to do about it well I would say this in other words I'm not a genetic determinist in the sense that they depend no matter where it is that you are on the scale you can sure as hell work hard and put yourself in better circumstances and you can learn more skills etc etc and just because you're smart doesn't mean anybody's going to hand you a check so there's still a lot of hustle to do it's just that from a from a societal policy standpoint if we ignore that the genes are the largest variance in the equation we are we're completely you know a wasting society's resources in efforts to help people that are struggling move all right next question yeah okay so this is from a lady a lady listener if reject allow this girls are too heavy and they truly cannot meet men because their rating is artificially low why is it that I see fat girls meeting mr. right I have one of these friend in particular that just married mr. right and I see a lot of fat people in general to marry well this is this is great all right so let's let's look at the situation of course you see overweight people to marry and you will see overweight girls that meet mr. right and so that what you're looking at is essentially that the marketplace is going to be what we call a scramble and this is a way the way this species works it's a scramble competition it's not a hierarchy we don't line up the top guy with the top girl the second guy with second girl cetera that's not how it works Sall big scramble competition and there's plenty of well there's not enough of this in my judgment but there's certain degree of subjectivity in everybody's rating system in everybody's personal calibration so of course once in a while you're going to find things that don't make sense to you you're going to think wait a second what what is what's he seeing over there he he could do better in my judgment but what you don't realize is that there may be a number of reasons why that particular individual meets meets minimum threshold for this guy and so this is kind of it's kind of like it's kind of like shopping for a car in that that if you there's maybe a certain number of features and you may really like something about a Pontiac Firebird but there may be something about it that you just this completely or like I don't know like a Mustang like it looks really cool and you really like it but you know what it really doesn't do what you needed to do because you're a painter and what you really need is to pickup truck and so so often you know these there are always trade-offs in these situations so mr. right from your eyes marries this overweight lady and you're thinking wait he could have done so much better with respect to that particular parameter but it turns out that she managed to meet minimum criteria and on all dimensions and really what qualifying is in a romance is to meet minimum criteria across all all of the dimensions that matter which are looks prints and personality and so just because a person is overweight doesn't mean that they're not going to meet some persons minimum parameters that that meets criteria for them so it's possible it's just a whole lot less likely likely and that's good news for anybody that is that is overweight because you need to know that your competitors will not get off their rear ends they will not learn what it is to do to do this right they won't get it done and therefore essentially you can vault yourself quite above your competition by actually going to the effort to get fit getting fit is no trivial trick it requires a lot of knowledge and requires some skills and it also requires a lot of determination but if you do that you put yourself in a much more competitive position in the modern environment than you ever would have so at this point somebody who is six can vault themselves up to probably a seven and a half just by being in good condition all right good Matt yes fantastic listen let's move on all right next question we have do not allow I am a smart guy funny in shape I have a really good job with the fact that I'm 5 foot 5 inches have anything to do with why I can't seem to get a date but every girl I meet would like to be my friend I know someone else with the same problem he's every girl's best friend but not one of them could even stomach the thought of dating him and I also wonder why he has this problem he happens to be my brother and he's also 5 foot 6 could there be any correlation between height and the friendzone of course and of course this is a very frustrating thing I actually would suggest that in general what a person needs to do is to fish where the fish are so I happen to be naturally very thin so you won't catch me hanging around no I don't know a weightlifting competition or a bodybuilder competition trying to hit on the females ok this wouldn't make any sense I'm not sure where I should go chess competitions you know where there's a lot of extremely attractive girls walking around chess competitions ok so anyway but the point is is that obviously you have to fish where the fish are and it's going to turn out that that height is a is a significant parameter that that doesn't doesn't get really anybody ruled out certainly not somebody 5 foot 5 it gets them ruled out by an awful lot of people so it's going to be the case that if you're if you're 5 foot 5 your market probably the overwhelming majority of your market is going to be women that are going to be 5 foot tall or 5 foot 1 now there's a lot of those people and there's certainly women that are 4 foot 11 - there's not a very few women that are 4 foot 10 but there are a few and you are certainly in the market for those people but there's an awful lot of people that are 5 foot tall and there are a lot of women that are 5 foot tall that are going to be pretty fine with a guy that is 5 foot 5 given all other parameters being being appropriate in terms of her attractiveness his attractiveness his build you know you do what you can there's an awful lot of men in the world that I have have a have a great deal of sex appeal because they're in they have terrific shapes in other words they're into their muscular etc so they can sort of they can make the case that way as best they can if they wear a little facial hair believe it or not that actually an advertisement for sexuality it turns out to be effective so there are things that one can do and at all it when all else fails learn how to play the guitar that will work okay so yeah of course this is a frustrating problem it's always a frustrating problem to be ruled out by most of the people that you would be interested in you have to understand that this is in fact the case of almost everyone this is not the case of people in the top 10 percentile but it is the case of people it is the kit it is it is the life of most people that are below at the 80th percentile they are there consistently frustrated and upset and feel like they cannot manage to score someone who meets their minimum criteria for whom they meet the minimum criteria so this person is is struggling with the same problem that everybody else is struggling with only on it on one specific dimension that feels very frustrating and quote unfair but the truth is is that that this is life life is is as I guarantee you I could line up in no time whoever this person is I could line up a thousand women that would be interested in being with this guy that would take me very long ok now he might say you know what Doug it just so turns out there's not a single one of those thousand women that I'd be interested in be like well such as life ok so you have to do everything possible to actually get the thousand and first female that is in fact acceptable to you ok so I I have routinely I have I don't believe I've ever had a plant that couldn't get a market it's a they if they paid attention to the parameters that they could control and they hustled it turned out that they could absolutely get a market now it may not be a market that they're interested in but this is life okay so this is not your fault that you feel this way this is your genes telling you you've got to get the last nickel on the table and if there's anything that I've seen in this life that is frustrating both for myself personally and everybody else that I'm dealing with most of the time is that people have to fight tooth and nail to get the magic ten percent to get the ten percent more than they really do have coming to them and to get that reflected on the other side and the other person to actually make that thing work and have to pee both feel really excited about a situation that is not an easy situation to engineer and if you're going to engineer it you better you better essentially be working very hard at all the parameters that you have control over and and do what you can to compete because believe me your competitors are not at home whining well actually a bunch of them are but unfortunately not all of them are some are out there hustling and taking care of everything that they can take care of in order to put their best foot forward and they may get the person that you couldn't have gotten while we were sleeping hmm all right so let's if you want we can break down a little oh where would we find shorter shorter women Friesen say we're five four types which six I mean we definitely would be on a basketball court right now so let's sort of find them all over Asia the the truth of the matter is is that there are you know that's that's why these dating sites have height as a parameter and you can set those parameters and you set that height for for nobody that's above five foot one and that's that's who it is that you write to and and you you give it your best shot and the truth is is that the the female brain is designed by nature to pretty well optimize a feeling of of ideal ratio between her height and his height at six inches typically it winds up being that the deal that gets struck is at about five inches and so that a person five foot five is absolutely in the market for a five foot tall individual or five foot one individual there's a lot of those people and not all those people are going to be able to handle that so you know in fact many of them might in fact eighty percent of the five foot tall girls may not be interested in someone that's five five okay so you or it could be ninety percent but I guarantee you it's not a hundred percent they're walking around with the chip in their head that needs that 5 or 6 inch differential and if they get it they're going to be okay with it and and so that that market exists and that's you know that's the market you have to attack and then do you recommend telling a girl when you're messaging her that you're 5 foot 5 or 5 foot 6 or is it something where you you so she doesn't rule you out you don't mention it and I mean you don't you don't lie about it but you essentially demonstrate your character and so that I don't think so I think you better I think you better face it right away and so that that uh you know I would I would certainly lie by an inch okay so you might even lie by two inches if she's five foot tall she's not going to she can't judge height that well so if you show up with shoes with her a little a little bit high and and you're in good shape and you turns out you're five five and she's five foot tall you might you just might need criteria okay so I wouldn't lie any more than that though well I will definitely everybody every we don't go definitely don't go to Carnival on your first date in one of those you know things where the person gets together guess your height you know for you to win a bear something like that yeah oh speaking of this I have to speaking of men women dynamics and hustling etc I have to fill in our listeners with what Alchemist wait yeah I can't wait oh yeah you're the guilty party so oh no that our listeners I was going to me she is a tall dark handsome young buck and so he comes to Las Vegas to a thing and I'm speaking at and he and his friend who's also a handsome young guy I would say they walked in but they more swaggered in a flagger in the door it's all it's a weight loss seminar so everybody's you know over forty almost and struggling with their weight and you know these are these are generally older people that are coming to a seminar to learn how to eat lose weight as they should but of course there's always a few young beautiful ladies that are really interested in nutrition and they're there so of course I see Nate and his friend Wayne and I shake my hand I say listen I got to run a quick errand I go I'll be back in a couple minutes I come back and four minutes and Nate is seated next to a beautiful young boy [Laughter] like wow that did yeah that just happened that's like my cat sitting next to the goldfish bowl and I walked and I'm like what are you doing what I want to know is what I'm sure I want to know what sweet old lady you you kicked out of that chair so you could sit next to that girl that's what I want to watch the videotape of that lunch all right all right that was a fun one oh and she had a an Australian accent no well she was a very pleasant southern girl yeah the great coffee I just love it there you go close that don't don't blame just me dr. Goldhamer is with me too so we share oh yeah yeah all right let's move on okay all right next question so speaking of things that we can do to overcome this I'm going to actually go to the last question then we'll go to yeah for the next one that's so I've got enough things that we can do to overcome these differences while dating now one of our listeners wants node michael--ah what types of fame existed during the Stone Age was there an analog to the modern phenomena of Hollywood celebrities and then the follow-up question is if you had a choice how famous would you like to be in okay the first question is I have no doubt that there was a fame that the folklore and in a person's you know I'm sure that these were their feats of physical strength and daring etc that that were very important the equivalent of athletic and and war heroes so you have I have no doubt that that was a very big deal the and I'm sure that that obviously had men taking big risks with respect to those kinds of situations these these would be fitness in decay and therefore men willing to take tremendous risks for four glorious and dangerous fiscal actions in that that's a chip inside the human head to be willing to do it and it's a chip inside the human head to admire it and so you know that that's part of human natural history obviously we have awe and admiration and women have sexual interest in men who do a great daring deed so that I'm sure has a long history now oh the other question was about me let's see I actually couldn't tell you the I would say in principle you you would idea would be enough fame to to surround yourself with with the people that you would really like to be in your life and to to secure excellent excellent relationships with with made friends and trading partners I think that that's the amount of Fame that any human being needs and then past that point personally I don't I don't personally have any interest in fame past those parameters that's me and I remember a long time ago and one of the shows you mentioned that I think it was Phil Collins you know it because he's up there and singing he's not out attracted him stuff but because he's out there he might be able to because in front of so many people he's exactly things odds to find item one that's extremely attractive so if someone else you know not not that attractive or if they are attractive but they're just just long other their height is is yeah five four five five six like our previous listener was asking like the same help to open that loop there's no question and so you know this is this is a particularly probably something big that is emotionally potent for a female like music or possibly athletics singing I think music even dancing for goodness sakes the I think that these these would be things if I was 5 foot 5 inches and I couldn't sing I might be if I had some coordination some athleticism I might become one hell of a ballroom dancer and and I've seen guys were 5 foot 5 they're ballroom dancers and they had people extremely interested in them because they're you know it puts you physically close to women and it it's a it's an artistic process for women they love to do this etc so this is uh yeah that like I said you want enough fame to secure the relationships you would like and the more obstacles you you might have towards reaching to a market that you would be happy with probably the more fame you need that's that's how that would work that's really interesting you said thing about pilgrim dancing it reminds me a long time ago I was dating this girl and it was kind of the beginning of our dating stages so we went to a ballroom dancing class together and you know as a guy I'm thinking okay good I could impress her because I've taken a couple of bones dancing classes when I was younger so I get there and they start teaching us and they're the the guys there ie my competition they have been dancing for a while and they're shorter than me but they just were blowing her away they were amazing and I remember saying to myself I've got to get out of here quick with their show yeah there again it was it was just it was now that I understand that what they had a niche market and they were just way better at it and they overcomed it so over time it yes there you go and that's a good strategy yeah all right so okay dr. Lao here is another question can you provide for advice on how both me and my partner could improve in the following situation we're both in a decade's long term relationship but my partner gets angry and frequently about how two acquaintances treat him he'll interpret what someone has said is an insult and then refuse to socialize with relatives or friends for periods of time the worst of these relatives can be difficult to deal with in terms of making racial slurs towards whoever the latest immigrant group is that people complain about and then they'll make occasional derogatory remarks about our plant-based diet and physically active lifestyle I've already learned from your book the pleasure trap and videos that we may have offended people in the past by not only discussing but promoting our diet lifestyle so we've discontinued that but we've done a lot of damage over time my reaction when he's angry is to tell him that I'm not responding when he's that upset but when he's no longer angry he sometimes wonders why he's been so upset we're both very introverted and don't have a large circle of friends so I want to maintain the relationships that we currently have any advice yeah interesting there there's some things to learn here and I would say the first thing that the some things that I would this individual might benefit from actually understanding his own anger and understanding some some basic problems that we could be walking into the so I'm not sure these circumstances are obviously idiosyncratic to some degree to these people and the specific relationships but more generically this is the basic problem anger is the result of feeling that you've been treated unfairly and the the root of feelings of unfairness is generally the notion that you have not received you're not receiving esteem signals at the level that you believe you deserve so there's a conflict of opinion and a conflict of interest that you believe that you you deserve more esteem than you are receiving and this can happen this is what this then does is it creates anger which is signaling to the other individual that this is the case that you are in fact not giving me the esteem that I deserve and and in fact so that if that signaled seemed to work then what happens is in theory an argument which is a whether they're having arguments or not that's sort of what's taking place here what arguments are is they are essentially disagreements about fairness which are really disagreements about status and you're going to see some interesting characteristics of the nature of humans enduring argument and that is that they they will attempt to interrupt they will actually talk over each other so that the other person cannot really be heard their voices are going to get raised they are affected effectively they're feeling aggressive and even physically aggressive all of these things are are meant to there's probably a few processes that that are being attempted here I believe that what's happening is that unbeknownst to them they're playing to third parties so if there's two people in an argument there's a even if they're the only people there there's a mythical third person there and the stone-age they're always would have been a third person there and there would have been probably four or five and six people there there would have been a few people there listening but effectively we're going to adjudicate on this conflict and so what happens is is that that what a person is angry the the people that are listening are not very interested so they're just vaguely interested members of the village that are you know somewhat close to these people that are having this argument and so they it is their job to sort of listen in and listen to both sides really quickly but their interest in this is very slight and they are not going to listen for very long and so therefore the it would appear that the evolution of argument strategy is to go for the jugular essentially Abbey is ruthless and strategic as possible look as fair as you can while you are actually delivering a blow to the other person's credibility and their argument as fast as you can and have no interest in being fair about it and it's all about winning and so as a result it's when we interrupt people it's also the notion of I'm going to stop you from being able to make that argument I don't want them to hear it on top right over the top of them and if necessary so that they cannot actually if I'm talking while you're talking they can't hear what you're saying and if I talk louder than you my voice made it eclipse your voice and they may hear my argument also it doesn't hurt if they know I'm very angry they assume then and infer that I believe that I've been treated unfairly by you and I'm actually on the attack so all of these things that this is how human beings evolved they didn't evolve to have conflicts of interest be be patiently and quietly figured out and sorted out and figure out whether or not where was there a misunderstanding that's not how this thing evolved this thing evolved to showboat and get ruthless and attack the other person's credibility as quickly as possible so the by understanding this person gets angry and they get they get ruthless and they and their behavior is not that admirable to to this their partner that's observing it and even to the point where once he's done he's not he can't even put his finger on why he was so worked up but the reason why he was worked up is that he felt insulted okay now the if they have essentially poisoned the well with a lot of these relationships sounds like some of these relationships may be marginal about their worth whether they're worth having and so however let's suppose that the relationship is worth having but the well has been poisoned then we have to know that we actually want to have a conscious and strategic plan about when we go into interactions in these relationships we have to be planning to figure out how to stroke these people in order to cause them to feel like we value them more than they fought because when you essentially have conflicts over status what you have is you have what I'm going to call an esteem dynamic that's been caught in a vicious cycle so if you insult me I'm going to salt you back and then you're going to soap me more and I'm going to try to assault you more and so that is an angry vicious cycle that's percolating under the surface whereas instead if we shift the esteem dynamic to where it is that we are giving them positive feedback then they're like well wait a second the last thing I want to do is attack a person is giving me positive feedback so you have to be clever about how is that you can give positive feedback that is credible okay we have to ask questions we have to give competent compliments and we also have to use self effacing remarks these are the three ways that we can signal to other people that we value them and that we don't hold ourselves above them if we do this we're going to find that the esteem dynamic shift in a good direction and even though it feels like this is not something that goes easily for human nature that's why career diplomats are rare okay the but because they managed to be able to do this they've got the natural emotional stability and and essentially they've got an agreeable list to them they've got just a temperament they can they can do this and they do it quite naturally but most of us don't have that but we can learn it and actually if you learn it you could be just about as good as a diplomat once you learn conceptually what needs to be done so what needs to be done is you need to be planning to essentially give people positive feedback and you have to be willing to be creative enough about it that it looks credible so that's what you need to do and if this person will do this then they will actually change the gear from reverse to forward with respect to any of these relationships you can't do it overnight they're not going to believe it but you can do it subtly you can essentially have a plan that this is what you're going to do we're going to do it a little bit at a time and a little bit at a time and over about half a dozen interaction is over several months you could actually get people to be thinking well now wait a second I kind of like that person and then when they see you it's more pleasant and we've got a positive esteem dynamic so you can go to my website and you could listen to my you know twenty-five little clip clips there and some of those clips talked about flood the circuit or how to get out of a jam etc these are all basically the same concept and that is that you need to understand that when you're in trouble the nature of an argument of any kind whether it's long standing or a short term argument is an esteemed dynamic caught in a vicious cycle and our job is actually to reverse it and we can reverse it with conscious forethought and planning about how we do it and then we're very likely to be successful in your website is a steam dynamics org and if any lip stirs want to go there and look at those audio clips and also we have a Yoda session with a listener a couple months ago called how to repair repairing a strain relation and this is you discuss right this is single versus virtuous cycle and now to shove the gear into reverse right alright good I forgot about that that's really good yeah fantastic all right I think we've got that we've got the all the questions for today we're going to go over some more next week and thank you thank you very much will will we really appreciate the questions from everybody again don't be discouraged if I don't read your question right away we have it all on our on a queue and we just get to them as soon as we possibly can
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