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Today's topic is about gender dynamics and
biological differences between men and women you ready Dr. Lisle?
Sure.
All right, in 2005 then president of Harvard, his name is Lawrence Summers
He was in a conference and the conference was about gender diversity in the subjects of science and engineering
Now over over years there's always been a difference in the amount of males in science, technology
engineering and math, there's always been more males there than females and he was discussing these
differences and trying to figure out why that was.
And he suggested. in his talk, among many other things, and I'm grossly paraphrasing here.
but he suggested that males and females have behavioral differences that actually can be explained by a biology rather than
socialization. In other words that
men and women are different simply because they're men and women not because they were taught to be masculine or taught to be feminine.
Of course
there's a really big political fallout from this, people on both sides kind of arguing whether or not he was correct and it ultimately
was big mess for him. But in terms of what the actual truth is, what do you think Dr. Lisle?
Well, first of all, I remember when this happened I can't believe that it's ... did you say 2005? Mm-hm
It seems like yesterday to me. I I
remember it well, and I remember basically thinking you poor slob
I can't believe that that you stuck your foot in us and
you know bless you for doing so because
He was looking at the same evidence that all of us in
the social sciences that are that are aware we're looking at and he was making a comment that is scientifically, utterly completely
non-controversial and yet
socially it was just death, so that guy lost his job is the head of Harvard University
because he had the gall to say something that
everybody with a brain can see is true and yet it goes even deeper than that
there's a all of the evidence supports him. There are, there are
very significant differences between males and females in
humans, and when it comes to their psychology
There are, of course, there are large overlaps because they're both, you know
they're a great ape. They are a big animal that, you know, arose on the
African continent over the last couple of million years and they face the same
predators in the same landscape and therefore they had to evolve many of the same survival mechanisms, but when it comes to
the rest of their psychology. their reproductive psychology, their reproductive psychologies drove
differences in human brains, that are just as significant as the differences that you see in human bodies and
those differences are quite marked.
Take us through that, what's going on there?
What's going to be happening? Is that, ah,
the problems that males and females faced
in the Stone Age, which is just for the benefit of anybody listening the truth of the matter is is that
99.9 percent of all human life
was in the Stone Age. So only the very last sliver of the few thousand years have been out of Stone Age
But for the vast majority of time that people have been either humans or protohumans, in other words, something very close to a modern human,
it has been in a Stone Age environment, so people, people all lived for all time a subsistence level
of
survival in packs, where they, ah
You might not wanna, you may not want to call them a pack because that sounds like they're a mindless
wolf that, no
they lived in groups and those groups,
it was them against the harshness of reality and it was their
group of maybe 30 people or 40 people or less or maybe some more in some cases
But the males and females within those groups faced remarkably different problems. And so
men were were attempting to
ascend dominance hierarchies within a group and women were
actually speaking out of both sides of their mouth as they observe this process. They were encouraging the males
sexually, the ones that would rise in dominance hierarchies they would mate with
the
different, preferentially with men higher in dominance hierarchies, but at the same time they were a leveling force
socially as much as they could, or a cohesive force trying to smooth over
the damaged and bruised egos of men who would lose in various competitions.
So women are designed by nature to, to be very subtle and
cohesive around social issues trying to keep a group together,
essentially anticipating anger and conflicts of interest and trying to mitigate the
anger and disruption that goes on with an internally competitive situation. You might think of a,
of women as if you look / thought of an NBA coach, that they've got, you know
12 big egos all trying to be alpha, everybody wants more shots that everybody wants more points and everybody wants more money
But what the coach is trying to get done is trying to get that team to play together as much as they possibly can
For the benefit of the whole group
And so that coach has to be very talented and intuitive psychologically in order to balance these two
processes. So that that is very much how female psychology has come to be the way it looks and
male psychology is much more
direct,
forward and trying to get to the top
I remember watching a movie and it was called in my Big Fat Greek Wedding and
the man of the house was a, you know
big burly male
And he was, you know, was trying to be the alpha male of the household and he told his wife during one scene at dinner
He said I'm the man of the house
I'm the head of the household and you shall treat me like this and the wife just kind of snarky way
She said yeah. Well you're the head but I'm the neck so I turn the head wherever it goes
Ha, ha, ha, ha. That's beautiful. Yes, good to know.
Is that is that we're talking about here?
Yeah, sure. in other words
they're all trying to angle
for resources, in other words
the the chief function of life on Earth is to to gather resources in order to
utilize those resources in service of gene reproduction. That's fundamentally what's happening?
So the the big strong male is an extremely useful device for a female,
yeah, for two reasons. Number one
they want to pass on big strong genes to their son and they also want to get the benefit of those big strong
gutsy muscles in terms of their hunting capabilities ,and their protection capabilities, so
it's, so women are looking to
try to, they're actually looking for masculine genes and
and males are
also looking for effeminate genes and
and so these
two things, are these two timeless
methods that the brains have worked themselves into and with it
substantial differences in their, in their psychologies.
So let's talk a little bit more about the specifics
I know you said that the male psychology is more direct and things like that. What's what are some unique
differences for males?
Well for one thing, males are much more likely to be explosive, angry and violent than females.
Males actually have a
particular hormone called dihydrotestosterone
that when they get angry,
that this, this acts like a supercharged,
supercharged, ah
testosterone and so what it does is it fires males up and puts them in a position where they
effectively feel that they are all in on a game, on a game where there is, ah, where there's potential violence involved.
Females don't have this or if they have it, they have it in massively smaller quantities. It's just
Males, for example the average male in the United States will analyze his fighting ability about three times a week
Strangely enough the the most common amount of time
that female will analyze her fighting ability in her lifetime is zero.
So there will be ... We're talking about physical or are we talking about ... yes ...
intellectual or emotional
Physical fights. So most females rarely analyze their fighting abilities, where most males
analyze their fighting abilities
three times a week. So...
Tell that to my sister, ha, ha, ha
Yeah
I
barely
You are vaguely aware of it, that if you are for example
I might walk into a gas station and I'm going in there to possibly pay gas bill. So I
give the guy $20 and in there is a couple of fairly rough looking customers
not super rough looking, they're just there to buy potato chips and beer but the point is that
I'm looking at them and I'm analyzing their size and I'm thinking through the situation if this gets violent
this is not the typical life that a female human being lives in and
so, it's not that they can't if they've been assaulted that may change things or if they've seen
assaults that may change things or if they just may have been threatened
But the point is is that the average female literally, is is not living inside the same
quasi violence filled brain as goes on inside of a human male
So what are some differences in a female?
They are, for one thing, they are on average they're quite a bit nicer and so with that with the less testosterone
females are inherently friendlier and inherently more motivated to keep the peace
The this doesn't mean that females aren't very crafty
Remember that they may be very nice, but they're all still trying to compete for the top males
and so there they are still in sexual competition with one another. And so there's still,
there's still some clever dynamics,
intersectional dynamic, that go on with females
competing with each other. They don't tend to like the competition, in other words
they're sort of a, they are little bit frustrated and resentful that the males will even put them in that position
But the truth is is that they've got to be in that position. There's no way around it
whereas
males are a little more straightforward about the fact that they're competing with each other
very directly for for female attention and favour. And so the females are just a little slicker, a little more subversive.
The knives aren't quite as sharp, is basically what's going on.
Why are females less direct about their competitive status in the mating game? What they are in general is they're in general friendlier.
Remember what they're up to. What they're, they are,
they're trying to compete with each other as ferociously as possible to get as high on the mating food chain as they can get
but at the same time they are trying to keep the pack together. If a pack comes apart,
because the mating dynamics get too too volatile, then the females really lose big
because they've got a child or two and they are they're vulnerable to
- for example, a pack on the other side of the river. So if our pack has say
23 people in it and
some of them are little children and we've got eight men and eight women and
So we've got eight men that are basically the protectors of our entire pack
If, if there's too much
conflict of interest between those males over a given female or two - if those females aren't
intuitive enough to smooth that thing out and not allow that boat to rock
they could have those ... the pack could get split in half
and if it gets split in half, they are, they're in danger of being overrun and raped and basically
etc,
Being being wiped out by a bigger pack that has cohesion
and so it appears that human packs would run probably as big as 150 and
So you really didn't want to be the member of a small back that was a vulnerable place and female psychology
appears to have been essential in trying to keep those packs together, that that's where you'll hear about, you know
the people pleasing, the conflict avoidance, the ah
peacemaker. This is where this all comes from. It isn't that males don't have those characteristics. They just don't have them in the same quantities
as females do.
Would you say that males who exhibit these type of characteristics, are they, do they just have less
testosterone? Or are they, I guess, more feminine, I mean what's the, what's the deal with that?
Yeah, yeah, they're, they've got less testosterone. Yeah, I'm undoubtedly a
Testosterone isn't the only variable that's involved here, but on average that's exactly what it is that you're saying
Testosterone is a pretty is a causal agent and therefore a pretty strong correlate of male aggressive behavior
And for females who are I guess more?
More direct and less peacekeeping do they just have more testosterone or less estrogen?
yes, the
what's going on here is testosterone to estrogen ratios and
so for example males have a
testosterone-estrogen
ratio, I think that
seven times more concentrated in testosterone than females, something of that nature, the um,
that doesn't mean that she won't get some pretty tough females along the way and
that they have plenty of testosterone in there. So they, and it's a fascinating study was done
50 years ago by a guy named McGargie, who, who set up experiment, a social psychological experiment that had
males and females, being paired together to do a task, where I think they had to do some report
They were going to report to the group on their task
I do not remember the details of this
but what he did was he he was trying to look for the dynamic between males and females when it came to taking charge and
So he had, I believe what he had was four combinations. So he had
dominant male /
dominant female paired together then, he had a dominant male, passive, you know passive female or submissive female. Then he would have
submissive male / dominant female and submissive male / submissive female and
strikingly in every single case the male was the dominant figure. So even in submissive male / dominant female
the male was the one that
theoretically took the lead but what happened was is that the dominant female basically shoved him into it and made him be
Pushed him into sort of being the Alpha of that situation
But in all in all other situations, it very quickly
Became dominant, the male became dominant which would have been as some people would say
well, that's 1960s and it wouldn't happen now, but I think that these are basically
If they if someone were to redo the study now, I think they would probably find exactly the same thing. But these are fundamentally
pretty
you know, pretty solid [characteristic] of human nature.
A few years ago, there was a writer who was curious about
the differences in males and females and she was a writer who who kind of grew up believing that that
little boys are little boys because the parents give them trucks to play with and little boys are taught
to stare at a woman when she walks past them and that girls are girls because they're given, you know,
the color pink and dresses and Barbie dolls
So she did an experiment and she was injected the same amount of testosterone as a regular adult 20 - 25 year-old male
and in her blog about this
she describes
the feeling she had when an attractive woman walked by her and it was all she could do
to control herself to not turn her head and stare at the body when the woman walked by and
After she was done with her experiment. She said she never got it until that moment that why she was so upset
when men would would try really hard not to look at that at certain things and then and they just couldn't help themselves
you know, yeah, that's a very strange story and I
I don't think I would believe it unless maybe she's a lesbian, because
She actually is.
Now that makes sense
So yeah
There would be nothing about injecting testosterone into a female that would cause them to look at females
The but yes if she's a if she's a lesbian then then yes the greater amount of testosterone
Testosterone is a huge driving force of sexuality. And so
And this is this is where the ratio of textually the ratio of testosterone and estrogens
will sort of tell the story and yes, so she upped her ratio testosterone considerably and
Suddenly she was much ,is going to much enhance her her her sexual
Force in her psychology and there you had it. There you go turning left
Yep, what's covered? Look till they're gone. Yeah
Of course, none of us do this obviously.
I
Didn't look at the lady next door as out the window every time she walked by in front of our house. Nope. No you'd never
that would be rude.
God I was 8.
She was old. She was old lady. She was about 29 years old
yeah, so
Lady was a 29 year old "10".
The Stone Age village kind of looks like this and you've got these
females competing for the top males and the males all competing with each other for the for the dominating right? I always just assumed that
because males can mate so many times and their sperm is essentially very cheap
compared to the amount of eggs that that a woman can produce over her lifetime
I think it's something like 400 eggs and then for men it's you know, probably in the millions billions or trillions
That the females will just all go to the top male no matter what
Yes that
That is, turns out not to be the case. And the reason is is that
In our species now just do to be clear here. That is exactly what happens in
97% of mammalian species. So there's about 4,000 mammalian species and about 3,900 of them
exactly, what you're describing is exactly what takes place. The females all go to the very top males who the very top male has
no conception of female beauty
every female is equally attractive and he's going to service every one of them that comes and
the the females are the ones that evolved
evolved equipment for detecting differences between the males in terms of their attractiveness. So it has been it is the females that first
evolved the concept of beauty
not males
now in our species
What happened was the following and it has happened a hundred times and mammals?
You know 100, 100 current mammals to do this and that is that
instead of
so in in the original situation, what's happening is that
but the females are, all, all that they are going to get from the top male is DNA
They're not going to get anything else. There's no commitment. No resources. No
No, diamond rings nothing. Not not even a cheap onyx ring. Nothing will happen. Hey
They're not gonna let the claw to help that female. All they are is grandstanding and mating
This is rock star behavior
So this is actually we call this a he-man strategy
So throughout nature the he-man strategy is in fact the most common mating strategy that you're going to see on earth
Now it's going to turn out that in certain species
Where it turns turns out to be valuable to do a great deal of provisioning of offspring
You're going to find out that the he-man strategy
Has a competitive strategy which is going to be what we're going to call pair bond
strategy or human beings call it love or true love strategy
And that is that the females are going to try to find
The best male they can find who will also commit a great deal of resources to her and her offspring
And so this is this is what has happened in in human life from the last two million years
prior to two million years ago
protohumans
lived the he-man strategy but starting about two million years ago that changed and
we have clear evidence that
humanoids
Became pair bond strategy
reproducers and that gave rise to
males then
evolving for the first time preferences for females
So if you're going to commit to one female or one female at a time,
at least, what you're going to do is, you're going to
start to be very discriminating for the first time. So
Modern females are all twisted up about how discriminating males are about female beauty
However, it was in fact females discriminating over male beauty that started it started the whole thing. Today we have
mutual high discrimination in
in humans
between both males and females are highly discriminating and the
difficulty that people have in finding romantic relationships is that the people on the other side of the
fence, on the other side of the trade are highly discriminating and it's very difficult to get two sides
happy about a deal.
It seems to me that
the desire for
commitment doesn't really come up until a few dates in. Whose idea, I
guess whose idea was that as you know, I have friends on both sides. I have guy friends
who date women and
they don't really have the talk about relationships until way down the line and then they say oh, you know
I'm not really looking and then I have a girl female friends who on the other side
they're kind of like hoping that that that the guy will commit to them
And then that is just kind of it's a big mess nowadays
It seems to me that with the availability of social media and that the, you know
the very easy to online dating platforms. This becomes a bit more challenging to differentiate what exactly we are looking for
- everybody knows what's going on. Yeah, these are these are ancient Stone Age problems. This is basically
This reminds me of young children
Learning to play blackjack or poker for the first time and as they learn you know that three kings is a good hand
they're all excited when they get three kings and so
You look at a 12 year old that's relearning this game and you and they're all excited about this and they then they discover bluffing
And they think that this is just you know
This wonderful new new thing in life when the truth is they've been playing poker for a hell of a long time
and so in the same way this very same game has been going on for two million years and the game is this
Women are out to get the fanciest male genes that they can possibly get
But they want them under the conditions where the male is going to commit to them
Now they may be willing to take those great genes without any commitment because they could then pass on
Superlative genes to their sons who could make use in the next generation of the very same
Characteristic that sometimes females are willing to take on males that are extremely attractive
with no
Without provisioning them. So the grand prize of nature
for humans is a an
Extremely attractive male because an extremely attractive male can mate basically indiscriminately with high quality
Females and not put out any any commitment energy. So an extremely attractive male might sire
You know five thousand children in a lifetime
Possibly probably wouldn't because pregnancy rates are not that high per population in humans. So
The but they damn well might sire a couple hundred
would be very probable and a highly attractive male, so
that that is one one thing that can so remember the female in her head is
Looking for the fanciest thing that she can get her hands on
However, she understands that the fanciest thing that she'd get her hands on is not going to commit to her in all probability
So the so what she's looking for is to split the difference between think of a think of a woman
with two options on her hands
She's got you know, Errol Flynn on the one hand that slept with everything in the world
Who would if he impregnated her her child would be fancier than herself on the other hand
she can go with Horace the bank teller who's a dweeb, and yet Horace follows her around and
Worships the ground she walks on and Horace is never going to look at another woman
Even when that woman walks by and nobody's watching him. He's he's so intimidated by his mate's
superiority that he is is transfixed into being her slave. Okay
So let's just think about those two opposite poles. So where does the woman want to land?
she wants to land a little closer to Errol Flynn than the Horace, the
excitement comes
With the fancy male and the the safety comes with the dough male and she's looking to hit / split the difference between these two
To get the very most exciting male. She can get her hands on that will also commit. So she evolves mechanisms
To try to detect commitment cues out of males.
Males have evolved techniques to try to
Charm their way past the females ability to detect commitment cues. So the males have learned to lie
And the females have learned to detect the lying and this is an evolutionary arms race between male and female on this dimension
So when people are meeting today
Everybody knows what the game is. Okay that the male if he's attracted to the female he would like to sleep with her
Pretty much as fast he can.
now if it turns out that that male is
Essentially playing one of two mating strategies if he finds her attractive
He is either playing He-Man strategy, at which point he would sleep with her
But he wants to have absolutely no energy and commitment involved, he's
not, doesn't want to commit any resources to her
Or he's playing pair bond strategy where he's willing to commit the rest of the resources of his life to her
so at first meet that male isn't sure what he's up to and
We believe that
sometimes he knows. In other words, very often the male knows that this woman is not pair bond material
She's not fancy enough, for him, males are willing to sleep down
In response to the opportunity for casual mating. The males want to sleep up when it comes to a pair bond strategy
The exact opposite is true of females. These are the mirror images of each other
The the the human female will only sleep up in response to casual mating strategy situations
She is willing to sleep down
For pair of on considerations. That's because a pair bond can be not as fancy as her in terms of sexiness
But he's going to bring resources to the table to even it out
And so this is this is really a two factor equation that is being played
Over and over again in human genetics. It is resources and
sexiness, or what we're going to call gene quality and
that is the dynamic and and everybody knows it. Everybody knows it, but they don't quite put their finger on it. This is why
That it is a mathematical
certainty
that most of the people that you are interested in will never be interested in you and
It and it is why most of the people that are interested in you you will never be interested in you.
This is true
if if you are a "2",
the "1's" are really interested in you and the "3's" are not interested in you, if
You're a five. The fours are really interested in you and the sixes or not and all the way up and down the chain
Everybody faces the same constraints
except the people in the top two or three percentile and they are in a unique situation where
most of the people that they are interested in are also interested in them they live
Remarkable lives relative to the rest of us and I hate them all
I only hate the males.
If the people that we are attracted to are likely never going to be attracted to us and vice and vice versa
How do we find happiness in the mating dance?
Well, it isn't that it isn't but it can't happen. It just means it's statistically not likely to happen
so in any given in other words most of the people
that
That a given let's take a given guy
Who's a six so he's 60th percentile, so he's but better slightly better looking than average
this guy is going to be interested in a lot of people that are north of him on the food chain and
so it's going to be the case that
They because they can see what he is and they know what they are
Most of them are not going to be interested in him. So but that isn't going to be true a hundred percent of the time
once in a while
Somebody's going to take a shine to him that is north of him, and there's a good chance he'll be interested back. So there is
that dynamic
percolates around inside the system
This is going to be what I call the subjectivity within the objectivity. In other words sexiness. I
can remember I
Can remember reading the classic book that educated the world's biologists about the nature of reality.
It's called The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins
It was written in 1976 and I didn't read it till a second edition came out in in
1989 and
when I read when I read this there was a shocking statement sitting right in there in that book, very
unapologetically as you'd expect that a theoretical biologist
Where Dawkins is talking point-blank and openly about the critical importance of sexual attractiveness.
Nothing, like this was anywhere in the world of psychology and I had a PhD in the field and yet here was a biologist simply
Saying look, this is where all the action is
so the and of course everybody's terrified of the fact that
Sexual attractiveness is highly subjective. So from the time were little kids everybody's saying oh everybody's beautiful
there's a cover for every pot and
essentially that is all like, you know, it's all subjective and
This is like just entirely bullshit and everybody knows it
So the the the political correctness and fear about calling a spade a spade
in this arena is staggering and and yet
You know the world the world gives lip service to it because somehow it's not nice to to talk the way that I'm talking
But it is the way it is and there is tremendous
objectivity and
sexual attractiveness
When it comes to facial attractiveness
the correlation coefficients between any two raters looking at faces on a on a
scale of
Dimensions from the first percentile to the 99th percentile. The correlation coefficients are about 0.94 in other words
They're almost perfect
Okay
There's almost
perfect agreement between any two raiders now you and I know that that's not true because you and I have
We have looked at pairs of people and you and I will discrete it from time to time. But so
0.94 is not perfect, but it's close
Okay, so would never be the case that I'm looking at somebody that I'm calling them a nine and you're looking at some you're looking
At that same person and you're calling them a six that will never happen
Right, but I can be around somebody who maybe you might call a nine or a ten or something and they might be facially attractive
but they're they're they're really
Argumentative they're not really pleasant to be around. They're rude. They they smell bad, you know all these things
I can't believe that it's just gene mutations that play here
It there's also gene variances that's involved
So what we're seeing is the following there when it comes to human mating
It's it's there's an awful lot of factors
It's fundamentally genes and resources. However that what the quote genes are and remember for example
When you think about personality dimensions super important?
in fact the most attractive personality dimension in the world for men and women both is
Agreeableness that winds up being the number one thing that is sought by mates worldwide. Now, let's think about why that is
the reason why that would be true would be because
resource sharing and willingness to be generous with resources including your own time and energy
And to be sensitive to conflicts of interest over resources
which is are going to include time and energy are going to be critical features of
a pair bond that is going to face an awful lot of
Difficulties across child-raising and so it turns out that that you know what you might not think
As a resource a question
is
Okay. So agreeableness is actually is a resource question
That that human preferences are trying to ferret out
So yes, it isn't just the way somebody looks that that is determines their attractiveness
It's going to turn out that
Our attraction to people is going to be is going to wind around different neural circuits
So for example lust circuits are going to be in response to body body characteristics
whereas
Attraction to their to who they are as a person
Will wind up being different circuits. Now these circuits can
They can they can all of them can result in people being more and less
exciting or pleasant to be with sexually
and to be physically close with but they that they appear to have
evolved at different times in human natural history and they have and they have different characteristics to what it is that it feels like
so you can be
Drawn and attracted to someone's smile who you know who they are person and you feel very warmly toward them
But you may never feel strongly sexually attracted to them because of the shape of her of her lower body features
That she just may not have very attractive
Rear-end and legs. And so you may be very attracted to the human and, but not very attracted to her sexually, whereas someone else
who you know is just a total bitch is someone that has a physical shape that you always find very attractive?
That's because those two those two characteristics
Of human experience are actually different neural circuits that evolved under different genes controlling them
Would females rather choose a less agreeable male versus a more agreeable male
Yes, there's certainly that characteristic
So females in general are going to want males that are bigger than they are
Stronger than they are and more disagreeable than they are.
And the question is how much disagreeable can you stand?
before it becomes intolerable and you feel like it's going to get turned on you and
So you want to see
And it, there are significant individual differences that are involved here
So if you if you yourself are an absolute hard-bitten tough testostoronised female
You might you might want to wimp. Okay, because you know, you're tough enough to take care of yourself
So this is there are there are nuances and individual differences that wind up playing throughout through this game
But these are these are definitely some of the some of the pieces to the puzzle here that go on in
human romance and man-woman dynamics
In terms of agreeable / disagreeable
My understanding of this is this is kind of how people feel fair about the relationships almost like it doesn't have to be
50/50 but it has to feel 50/50. So some people are about 55/45 some people about 60/40
Some people are 40/60 and the more disagreeable ones are something like 70/30 in their favor
Is that is that what we mean by agreeable and disagreeable? Yeah, that's right
That's a very good way to conceptualize that so disagreeable people are tend to be more testosterone-ised and
They tend to be less empathic
they tend to be less sensitive towards other people's needs because
They're they're focused on the fact that in general. They feel like they're getting chiseled
And so there's a general irritable quality to them the higher you go up in the disagreeable testosterone chain
On the mirror image it's very sweet people
just don't want to fight for anything and
Concede at the drop of a hat. Those are people on the other side
And those are the most most fun people to kind of be in a, enter into any type of relationship, romantic or otherwise?
Not necessarily the
The thing is is that those people come with their own expenses
so let's suppose you you marry some gal is just sweet as anything, but the problem is is that
She is being taken advantage of at her workplace, at church, ... she's not, you know, they're asking her to do this and do that and
She basically can't say no because she's so agreeable, but she winds up being stretched and overwhelmed by life
and so that that impacts you as her mate, so there are
the truth of the matter is is that the most adaptive people all things considered are
Somewhat near the middle of the the bell curve and as you get as you get either highly disagreeable or highly agreeable
Those come with substantial costs that are associated with those, you know, you you are which you are but it's useful to know
If you happen to be for example, very agreeable that
You know it pays to figure out how to engineer your way around some of those
Characteristics so that you don't you don't incur too much expense and dealing with people
Yeah, and the reason I'm thinking about this as someone's a little too agreeable and let's say from both sides
Let's say it's a female who's kind of, she's not too agreeable
I'd say just lower on the bell curve in terms of more agreeable than most people and
They're entering into a relationship with the male who they're assuming is going to be committed and they agree and everything but then the male
who's sharing some of the resources and ends cheating and ends up getting another mistress and all those kind of mess on the other side?
You can have a very agreeable male who is able to commit resources to a very beautiful female and they both have a great relationship
Until the baby comes in the male realizes. Oh, guess what?
It's not his kid and that the female is actually, you know
Been enjoying the company of a more disagreeable, of a higher,
I guess, quality male and he's been committing resources. So on both sides
How common is this? What's what's the deal in that scenario?
This situation is is
Very common just as a backdrop in human affairs. This is a percolating,
This is a percolating potential that that sits inside of any any relationship, where
where things can get tipped out of balance by a variety of factors
So we're not going to say this happening all the time everywhere, but it is
but it's a percolating low-grade threat that is always there and
Be so this is a problem in in any case where people are
where the trade is out of balance and someone is being over rewarded. So
the the situation could for for an agreeable female can be
She can be in relationship with a hard-driving testosterone-ised male, and she can feel
Excited and more secure in some ways but that by virtue of his toughness, but that could be a ticking time bomb
if it turns out that
If it turns out to be the case that he comes upon more resources or comes into situations
Where he,
where he wants to
Essentially play casual mating strategy in life or move on so that is a you know
Certainly, these dynamics can happen in any combination
But that is a not uncommon thing that happens in in human in human relationships on the other side
what happens less frequently but
Absolutely is there is that males who are over rewarded in terms of their physical attractiveness
with
because of their
Particularly their modern ability to get resources
So you have non-alpha, non-tough males with some brains that in the modern environment
wind up being
brilliantly rewarded
Let's say a guy makes $200,000 a year and the average guy in the United States makes about 40 so our mr. $200,000 a year
Really, you know, he can't put a posthole to build a fence end straight
but what he can do is you can cut out gall bladders, so he's pretty nifty and
He might make five times the what or ten times what the average guy makes and so a a rather
Slightly crafty female might be willing to trade down in the looks department ten or twenty percent more than ten percent
Let's call it 30. So let's pose our boys a six and she's a nine
Now that may work
Depends upon what her psychology is like he could be elated that he gets himself a nine and she could be completely fine
and that might work, but it might not work and
so there's a tendency when relationships are significantly mismatched for them to come apart and
and
absolutely females in those situations are very often sleeping with the tennis pro and
And but this happens they this is this is a potential of what goes on in human life
Is there any way to guard against that on the male side and on the female side?
Well, I think that ah, you know, I would say that the following is true
and
This is I mean this is easy to say this
You know from it from a psychologist that has been watching this at close range in
thousands of people and for three decades
So it's may be easy for for me to say this, but if people are
honest and and
true to themselves and really and really
Are really
Not letting themselves get giddy over situations
but instead
Taking their time not rushing into decisions and being square with
With the person in the mirror
You can sniff a lot of this coming
So I have I have observed
As Joni Mitchell would say some hot hot blazes
that go down to smoke and ash and I could see them coming and I only
met these people three times and
Yet I could tell this is trouble. This is a mismatched situation
there's there is some sort of untoward deal making that's going on here and
people are
Highly attractive person is being lazy and irresponsible with their wife and trading down
Because they're - they're a flake and the less attractive person can see it
but is so enamored with getting the good looks but they're going to do it anyway and
that this thing is a this thing is a volcano that's going to blow sooner or later and
And I've seen it and I've watched it happen and
I have seen situations where nice guys have gotten into situations where they really didn't want to be and
There might not have been some big mismatch, but they were not happy and
They were getting trapped in the females anxiety was that she was damn well determined to drop them
And I've seen that situation go on and known that the wrong thing to do was to stay married or and to have children
And I've watched those things
blow up or just end in long-term
Misery, so what can I say?
You know
what we're seeking, for where we can talk about mating and males and females and testosterone and estrogen and
beauty and mutations, but the truth is is that
Ideally what people are trying to find is love
What they're trying to find is the situation and inherently feels like a very very solid excellent trade
And it doesn't feel like quote a trade. It just feels like something that you want to do and
the and
That possible for people but it is not easy and we wouldn't expect it to be easy
It's just in the same way as to find your ideal job and career is not easy
it's not easy to find an excellent partner that you might be with for a large portion of your lifetime and
however
It's not a game for the lazy and it's not a game for those to lack courage
It's not a game for the gutless and it's not the game for the impatient. You have to be patient
You have to be determined you have to be
Make the most of your own self. I
have a good friend who said the job here is to
Turn yourself in the most perfect mate you can and then act naturally
You're not selling anybody anything. You're just being you and
the desire to try to get there by shortcuts and to various kinds is the biggest thing that
There will keep people between them and a satisfying life in this domain
Well said. The important thing is to kind of be the best version of yourself and
Strive to achieve your genetic potential in a lot of different ways. You're saying Dr
Lisle, that things like keeping in good shape making sure that you're intellectually
attractive making sure that you are as attractive as you can be physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, all those things
All of those things and you know, you can't be this doesn't mean being out of breath with high blood pressure
Trying to be as ferociously competitive as possible with every minute of your life. But but it does mean not being lazy and not
Overlooking things where we know we're if we put in effort we could put a better foot forward
you want to put a very good version of yourself in front of the opposite sex, you don't have
All right. Well, thank you again. Dr. LIsle. We'd love to have you come back and talk a little bit more
Their dynamics we kind of got off topic talking about dating in love, but I love it. I love this topic
It's one of a really interesting topic for me, and we're hoping to get you back here again, maybe to talk about personality characteristics
a
couple years ago by your recommendation
I read a book by Jeffrey Miller called "Spent" talking about all the different personality characteristics that people
Have and it boils down to about five plus oh one which is intelligence
So we'd love to have you come on and and discuss that and what that means for
for different goals that we are trying to accomplish
Absolutely great fun, and I look forward to it
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