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Episode 30: Listener questions
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the last couple of weeks we've been we've been powered through a couple of different topics what she says versus what she means what he says versus what he means sports rivalries grudges and some listener questions and comments now evolutionary psychology in my limited unprofessional experience tends to evoke a lot of questions and a lot a lot of different arguments from people when when we talk about this and sticking through this the last few shows of actually people have emailed me and some comments have been been made through some of the posts I made on reddit about this this particular podcast and so this episode is dedicated to listeners again as we did a couple of weeks ago to go over some questions and some comments and maybe some clarifying some situations from the evolutionary psychology perspective with also a little bit of your twist on it for beating your genes how's that sound dr. Weil excellent that was good excellent so well let's see what we got here the the actually the first thing goes into what I said just a few moments ago which is about evolutionary psychology and the question is why is there such a disconnect between evolutionary psychology and the popular understanding of it well I would you know that say first of all I don't know that there's any popular understanding of it because it's a it's a I'm not sure what the person means maybe they mean the little bits that they read in some forums on the internet but epilation are psychology really has almost no voice in modern culture it's almost entirely ignored in academia and so so I'm not I'm not quite sure what they're referring to so the but I would say this the people that they get little smattering Civet of it and you will see little smatterings of it with respect to man-woman dynamics being the most obvious issue ie the simplest the simplest concept in Evelyn's new evolutionary psychology is the differential investment that males and females of our species have an offspring so males ie emails or philanderers and pair of honors that that that will generate all kinds of discussion and and also will generate although some of that discussion will will have some merit and have some some kernels of truth in it there there's a lot of ignorance in not only that discussion but in the responding discussions that follow evolutionary psychology upsets a lot of people and that's because it it's at its core issue it tells us that we are here to compete sexually and that the notion of competition is something that is upsetting for a lot of people because it indicates that there are winners losers and everything in between and that seems very unfriendly and evolutionary psychology can seem very cold and quite frankly it is and that that's why that's why what life has so many the edges that it does have is because there are wins and losses winners and losers and and this is the nature of existence and so that plays out the truth of those things are faced head-on in evolutionary psychology and that can make people quite uncomfortable yeah you know I always wonder when people say like winners and losers like when we're talking about life does winning just mean surviving or does it mean being happy or does it mean securing a really high value mate does it mean having a lot of friends what do you think yeah I would say I I would say the when I'm using that concept I'm indicating that there are conflicts of interests between individuals and where two individuals want the same thing two guys want to be CEO two guys want the corner office and be executive vice president two guys want to be banging the really hot secretary but you know one of the two of a might now we're maybe neither because a third party will get there so the bottom line is is that there's going to be inevitable and sometimes substantial frustration and disappointment and life depend upon who you are and what your circumstances are and the reason why most of that frustration exists is because of the competitive process that is going on and so that so that isn't mean to say that if you've lost that you're a loser there are going to be a thousand contests in your life and you're going to win some and you're going to lose some but some people win a hell of a lot more than other people and and they do so for largely reasons of their genetics interesting because this actually leads into another question from another listener who asks why is it that we see such a huge discrepancy between society's empathy towards human needs until it comes to sexual satisfaction I'm assuming he means so he says we use tax money to fund basic needs of all kinds but you fear a loser sexually you're basically on your own in every way shape and form aren't outcasts answers in the sexual realm more likely to become radical rebellious and dangerous to the group and are there any Stone Age examples of us quelling these dangers or any modern examples well yeah he's making a point here that I think there's I think we can get confused in in sort of teasing this apart young men are in a position where they are competing with older men with more resources and in in our modern environment we have a somewhat unnatural situation whereas there is the capability of accumulating resources we're a resource accumulation was never possible in a Stone Age environment you could accumulate status in the sense that you can have a track record of doing outstanding things but you could not literally queue accumulate wealth and so therefore the modern 24 year old male is it a interesting disadvantage to the 34 year old version of him because the 34 year old version may have spent the last ten years accumulating wealth be smart or he's accumulated the ability to gain wealth that could not be had just by talent in the way that that would be true in the Stone Age so in the Stone Age the we can already tell that in looking at hunter-gatherer societies men's athletic prowess peaks in their late 20s interestingly enough when they look at hunters there their maximum gains as hunters peak in their late 30s which is very interesting in other words they're their most talented young but then they continue to learn and get more sophisticated at the craft this looks a lot like professional athletics where we're professional athletes a lot of times by 26 27 28 or at the very height of their athletic dominance but they may not be at the peak of their level of abilities their peak abilities seem to come a little bit later as they learn more tricks of the trade now I forget I've sort of wandered off topic tell me what this oh yes so we've got this alkylation issue and so therefore people in the modern environment men in the modern environment young men already are at a competitive disadvantage as compared to where it is that they would have been in a Stone Age environment and as a result some of that is going to get is going to get frustrating so that their height of their testosterone and they're they're also feeling that they are being shut out sort of unfairly in some ways or it may seem to them be unfairly and so as a result they are likely to engage in if they don't have other ways to do so let's suppose that they don't have the they're not particularly gifted and they're not particularly savvy well for one reason or another about the economic world it could be the case that they wind up engaging in high-risk high-reward behaviors in order to get those resources so this is where drug dealing comes in and theft comes in and potentially interestingly enough rape comes in and so these are three high-risk high-reward strategies for obtaining essentially female DNA and it's so this person is correct in the sense that this is a problem now the however that's a different problem than he was speaking of slightly different problem and that is that there there is no particular way to distribute resources that makes any sense to me to people who are just flat out sexually unattractive and and yet and and essentially this it's not like Society has a lot of compassion for them in any way shape or form it may or may not increase the desperation of behavior probably does not most people most most men do not have the aggressive risky tendencies to to make up for this what they do is they simply bide their time you will see this kind of behavior take place in the animal kingdom among animals that are not large enough and strong enough to challenge alpha for females they will just patiently basically bide their time and hope for something to change so and that's what a lot of unattractive people will do they'll just they'll just hope something one day falls into their lap but yeah I think it's an interesting issue about how little sensitivity there is in our society about that problem yeah it makes me think that that it's survival of the fittest even though we know it's survival of the genes yes I mean the it's the survival of the fittest gene is the correct way to look at it and and so obviously Fitbit genes have tremendous opportunities relative to less efficient and very unfit genes have very limited opportunities and they have and therefore you can expect them to be in general more frustrated with their limited options and maybe not at all interested in the options that they have in this 10 fortunate yeah this goes into the to the next question actually by another user by another listener you said that in today's world especially in the first world to be overwhelmed because they are seeing the women that they want drenched and sexual attention and it's petrifying them often at an early age because guys in the middle to late teens like you were just talking about our start are just starting to figure out their place in the world but the teen girls the moment they hit legal age can be launched all the way into the high status and they aren't really keen to hide it so what this listener is asking is what's really left for for men when women are getting all this attention long before the men are getting attention well what's list left for men is the way it's always been so in other words even though the listener I can hear their frustration and that part of what you're hearing there is echoing what I'm talking about that but older men can accumulate resources and that they can that they can shower those resources or send have those resources as inducement to for example an attractive 19 year old female a 35 year old male with a lot of resources can be more attractive a whole lot more attractive than a similarly genetically attractive 19 year old male with no resources and so effectively these very sexually attractive female young female has tremendous options and probably and has more more being thrown at her than would have been the case in the Stone Age and so yeah so what does it what happens it's called figuring out how you're going to get a good job in other words if you're a if you're a male your job is to start figuring out early how are you going to quote distinguish yourself from your competition and the most the the most difficult thing to do in the world is to make a lot of money honestly and so as a result this winds up being a fitness indicator and the females are watching for this and they are they're going to definitely be influenced by males that accumulate a lot of resources or mails that accumulate status and some non material realm for example they may be they can sing very well or play the guitar particularly well etc in other words there's there's other ways to distinguish yourself but remember this is all against a backdrop that everybody is checking out everybody else physically so the truth is is that it has always been the case that if you are a mid-range male you are never going to head for a high range female not without some spectacular chops and that's you know whether you're 17 or 37 and so the so that that's part of the frustration that the person is is talking about is the fact is the mathematical inevitability that females in the top 10 percentile have tremendous power even as in their young lives and it's a male unless you have a tremendous amount of genetic cachet you're not going to be able to play there a lot unless you do some extraordinary things to distinguish yourself in your mating career mm-hmm no so there's nothing we can do about our DNA nope except for maybe lifestyle disease reversal but that's a whole different topic right yeah so actually the truth is is that let me let me point something else out and that is that it's probably never been a better time in the world to be a three so let's suppose that you're a 30th percentile human male or female that seems like that's pretty brutal but the truth is is that it's not that brutal and that's because so many of your competition are in horrendous condition so since most people are in such poor physical condition you if you're a genetic 3 you're somewhere in there in the bell curve you are even a genetic - in other words you're you are you are plain you you certainly that that individual we can all see that they're not attractive but the truth is is that they can become functional four or five if they are not overweight and they're in good shape and and then if they apply their conscientiousness in ways due to either accumulate resources if there are male or otherwise distinguish themselves in some ways then they can they can potentially play into the middle of a gene pool and so they can be they can find some satisfaction in doing well for for them your your system is basically doesn't need you to date Brooke Shields that's not necessary for your nervous system your nervous system needs to believe that it got an excellent deal and that's that's really what it is that it's after and so of course it's increasingly exciting as we get higher up in in the the bell curve in terms of physical appeal but but the same system holds throughout the RIT all ranges of human attractiveness yeah I mean for I know I've talked about this with my friends is is there there's some sentiment where at some point we kind of look and say well if the girls not very intelligent I'd rather have a girl who's not as hot but she can you know she can keep a conversation going or be conscientious enough etc etcetera with personality differences yeah all of this is sort of it's all in that all of it is on the table because all of these have to do with a species that is that is potentially looking at long term decisions in their in their mates election however there was something more about there's something more of these questions I can't remember but I'm a little bit lost you better you better figure out where we are let's go from here okay yeah we're just talking about the questions that seemed to I've been hearing a to in the tone of the questions is some of the frustration from younger men that are dealing with yeah welcome to the welcome to reality okay it's never been any different it's never been any different so it has always been the case I think there's a magazine I believe called muscles and money and I believe I believe I actually saw that on a shelf it's probably been around for 20 years I just didn't catch my eye until you know some random event took my eyes over there but muscles and money says it all in other words the people who made that magazine are telling you exactly what it is that you know that if you're a male that you need to be in it in order to optimally compete you need to be in excellent physical condition and make a lot of money and those are those are the two things that you can potentially control you cannot control so many other things about you that the female is designed by nature to assess but those two things you do have some control over and so that's why they've got a magazine about it so this leads us to another question again this forum where the end of listeners who have been listening mostly male from what I gather and so the questions are from that from that part from that vein okay question a lot of men turn to self-improvement because of a breakup the motivation to react lost love is strong but what be what would be dr. Lyle's thoughts on heartbreak and obsession with one woman that dumped you from an evolutionary standpoint and what can be done about it more than more than one possible answer to that so the sometimes let me give you sort of three couple three two or three different answers because I'm not sure where that individuals coming from or whether or not that just sort of came up with that idea more generally the one reason is is they'd suppose that a male was in a relationship with a female and he felt like he was you know over rewarded and he felt like he was over rewarded and got accepted so he felt like he made it and he was absolutely elated with the situation so he was feeling pair-bond all the way now now that that male now let's suppose that we fast forward six months or a year or two years gets dumped by said female so said female four for whatever reasons is not happy with the situation now this being the case the the male is is certainly it's certainly reasonable for him to feel like that he may not be that far away from qualifying for that female and that female was a screaming deal as far as he was concerned and so therefore it's a pretty good idea to keep hammering away for a while and just see if you can change your mind interestingly enough it turns out that of people that remarry after a divorce one in ten of them remarries their ex spouse that they divorce for god sakes okay so it tells you the importance of if you ever qualified or seemed to have qualified and you are damn happy about it because you felt over rewarded then of course it would make sense of lucia narrowly speaking to be quote obsessed with that female and not give it up okay now the second of all often if a remember that if you if you damn near qualified because she slept with you for nine months or nineteen months and then she booted you then you might suddenly realize you intuitively understand that she's running a cost-benefit analysis on you and so you look at yourself and you say well gee what could I do to improve my cost-benefit analysis maybe I go back to school and get a degree so and get a better job and make more money and drive a better car and have a better house maybe I can get to the get to the gym and strip off ten pounds of fat and add 10 pounds of muscle okay maybe I can then you know dress in a little cooler clothes maybe I can quit smoking a drink whatever in other words now we're going to start this is our self-improvement campaign the self-improvement campaign is clearly directed at two targets number one it's directed at the female who we may be able to when back by demonstrating to her that we've altered the cost-benefit equation and it's also what the hack as long as we are trying to win back that specific female we might as well get ourselves if we're going to have to hustle we're not going to just charmer with a little bit of energy as long as we're hustling it isn't after just one female we're after but we're after out to improve our entire competitive position with other females as well so these are some things that are going on a third thing that's going on potentially is that sometimes males have a narcissistic streak and they are controlling net cases and it is they're highly disagreeable individuals that are deeply offended when they are dumped and so it turns out that these individuals they may have also an obsessive sort of a nature possibly for example disagreeable and a bad combination would this a bad combination would be emotionally unstable disagreeable and a little bit on the low conscientiousness side now these are worse if we go further on the low consciousness aside we're going to wind up with a psychopath but all we're really needing here is your average narcissistic nutcase they can't tolerate the fact that he got dumped okay now these people are dangerous and they can obsess about a female potentially for years it is it is not super uncommon for them to certainly batter those females on repeated occasions and then sometimes murder them and so the so the the evolutionary underpinnings of this are are probably look like the following and that is that if a female defects on you then a one evolutionary strategy is to be her up or intimidate her into staying because you then alter the cost-benefit equation of her leaving and then if she leaves you might even in the Stone Age you might even murder this one in order to send a signal to other women that they had better not leave you ok now so this is I know this sounds like horrifying if you're if you're a modern normal woman or a particularly if you're a feminist scholar listening you're like what is this nutcase talking about ok unless you understood that we were talking through the lens of evolutionary history to try to understand of this kind of behavior in the mail this would make a nice discussion would make any sense but what we're trying to do is we're trying to look through down through the genetic history of your organism try to understand why it is that we sometimes see the behavior that we see so sometimes the edgy angry obsessive you know screaming stalking behavior that we see is is about defending the the honor of the narces to is dumped one would have to see this very clearly in the case of OJ Simpson the so only the only possible way to understand OJ would obviously this guy who had a phenomenal amount of freedom and cachet to lose but he his stone-age brain would not allow him to let this highly attractive ex-wife essentially parade around Beverly Hills demonstrating that she was fine without him that was intolerable any murderer and I was no average murder this is a murderous rage which is a you know characteristic of the narcissists so the anyway that's a whole bunch of stuff that goes on with respect to men not wanting to let go and this is of course we're talking about the lower of the bell curve so it was that one or two standard deviations away so this is not very common by any stretch oh no this is exceedingly rare but I have to tell you it is not uncommon at all for me to see in highly attractive women that holliday attractive women somewhere along the lines they have dealt with some narcissistic stalking nutcase this is actually very common for highly attractive women and I I don't I don't know that anybody's ever pulled data on this but I believe that if anybody did I mean this is one heck of a doctoral dissertation that it is not your seven or eight female who has this problem it's the nines and up because the nines and up are so genetically valuable and the narcissist very often is pushy enough that he can get to those females at least superficially and maybe even get into bed with them for a while with their superficial charm and and then when they get rejected after the female smokes it out then they're enraged and all these activities starts so it's not so it is not I wouldn't call it rare certainly murderers rare but but stalking and threatening and aggressive behavior physically is not rare at all and an awful lot of high-end highly attractive females have had to live with that at some point in their life okay all right next question this is about discussing the sexual Marketplace value calibration in more detail so this is a listener who actually had a session with you dr. Lyle and the following point came up he writes I had a session dr. Lyle and it came up that I got rejected by a superhot girl who was 18 years old initially I qualified as her partner and even slept with her but dr. Lyle suggested that due to her laughs lack of life experience she's not properly calibrated to the sexual marketplace and does not know her true value so after conquering me and getting my commitment she stopped sending the esteem signals and covertly communicated rejection that I no longer qualify as her partner and she moves on to see if she can get a better deal this this sounds like something I heard called hypergamy at the same time dr. Lyle suggested that true love pair-bond is most likely if both partners are sufficiently calibrated to their own value and they perceived a partner as the best option they've seen in the last three years but here's where things get tricky if the calibration process is dynamic will it eventually fail to maintain equilibrium resulting in one person always pursuing somebody better and can you comment on the extents or the limits of this calibration how it affects relationships it's a lot there again and that's how all very good it all makes complete sense if you think about it that the the the nervous system would be very carefully engineered to make sure that it is expending its energies in an intelligent fashion as intelligent it as can figure out how to do it and so particularly think about for example a may well think think for example about a female nervous system going to be very careful with these eggs and trying to make sure that she gets excellent value in exchange for those eggs if a male is going to para bond into a situation he better only be pair-bonding if he feels like he's getting excellent value because he's giving up casual mating strategy so let's suppose a male is an 8 and the female he's got his eyes on at the moment is a 7 we would expect him to not be interested in pair bonding with her because he could have her equivalent in casual mating strategy and so we would not expect him to develop the kind of connection and oxytocin bonding that shouldn't work it shouldn't work that way now it could work that way if he wasn't calibrated let's suppose that for some strange reason he was kind of a chubby kid till he was about 19 and then he somebody told him how to eat a little bit differently and he started exercising he's a late bloomer and so now you know he has been a 5 now he's an 8 doesn't know it so he's a little in the gray area for calibration meets a 7 and he feels like he's willing to pair bond meanwhile she's all excited about it and try to March the guy to the altar so now from so you can see that don't think about these as people think about them as machines and if we think about machines trading with each other then they should be very careful to be calibrated intelligently in a way so that they do not give away resources that would be a mistake so if we see any characteristic of modern humans we see that they do not give away their resources easily at all men tend to be real cheap with their resources and females tend to be very stingy sexually with males that are there their genetic inferiors so there when I say inferior I mean in terms of sex appeal not anything else so the so as a result it's going to be the case that very often people are not very well calibrated in their youth so an 18 year old 19 year old 20 year old 18 19 20 year old female a highly attractive female for example in this particular case does not really know what her reaches doesn't know so uh let's let's suppose that that she's you know real average personality terms of nothing special at all now does she does she think that her reach goes to a 25 year old guy with you know maybe she's got a net worth of $2000 maybe a 25 year old guy with a net worth of $30,000 seems pretty impressive but then then the next month she bumps into it's just as attractive a guy who's 27 years old with $100,000 net worth okay so who's very very interested in other words here she's trying to calibrate and so therefore at an early age she has not seen enough rejection cues to find out what her upper limits are and that's how this is going to work so the calibration process is going to be fed by not only your wins but more importantly by your losses and finding out where your ceiling is with respect to the opposite sex when two people have both found their ceilings so they know that they are let's suppose there's somewhere you know 80th percentile plus or minus 5% I'll so they more or less know where they are those peoples that more or less know where they are they are now in a position where when they get a deal that is moderately better than they would normally expect they're likely to be very excited about this day and now if they if somehow somebody seems to be giving them a deal that's a lot better than they expect now a mature intelligent person smells a rat and they know that no there's got to be something wrong with it probably something badly wrong with it this is the Hollywood version of what I call the broken 10 so if you're Renee Zellweger and Jerry Maguire you better smell a rat because you don't deserve that guy okay so this is uh and of course the whole drama plays out that you know he's a mess and he's not into role but the bottom line is this that calibration systems are going to now the other question that there that the person asks is calibration systems would inherently be dynamic in the sense that you your your feedback from the world is always variable some degree so thing things are changing in your stock is falling and rising a little bit and it turns out that whenever there are shocks to people's stock we find out that it does disturb the calibration system of people so for example when when men get promotions they are very likely to dump their wives substantial promotions in other words if they do much better financially than they expected to or that it looked like their previous prospects that's why we call the second one or the third one a trophy wife for god sakes so now they can afford the trophy that they could not previously afford and so this is true that these did these things are potentially dynamic they aren't necessarily dynamic but they are potentially dynamic and and it's also true that people can change in terms of their own sexual worth for other reasons they may become less attractive or more attractive for for various and reasons and they then may feel the need to go test their calibration of the marketplace so the there's a subtext to this question which i think is very interesting and that is the subtext is once again we're hearing a little bit of the frustration that that comes from people saying you know isn't there a way how is it that this Rubik's Cube is all supposed to work out just right and and gee it just seems to me that there's threats from all angles to this thing working out just right yeah that's exactly right yeah if we're if we're going to look for the little nirvana where people do a little bit of dating you know from 15 to 23 and have two or three breakups or six or seven little breakups and then they meet somebody really good when they're 26 and then the other person feels great about them and they feel great about the other person and then they like get together and then everything's good for the next 50 years good luck to you okay if that happens to you you are a one in a hundred shot that that is what is supposed to happen to you that is the fairy tale about what is supposed to happen to you but the realities of what happened are much much Messier and much more competitive and edgy and heartbreaking than that and it seems to reward constant improvement if it's possible so if people understand that they are constantly under threat of defection or they're constantly being evaluated in a cost-benefit analysis and does this increase their motivation to improve constantly well you know it's interesting I think that I think it's a certainly it's useful to understand that that you are mating in captivity which is a the name of a book that I never read but I just read little excerpts and it made a lot of sense to me I think this was a woman biologist or somebody like this that wrote this thing the your mating in captivity in the modern environment we we have completely altered the landscape reduce the direct competition when people are in when they're paired up in financially tied up messes marriages relationships where we're living in the same space etc etc these aren't necessarily messes I'm just I'm just explaining that this creates a lot of problems that people don't see coming yeah it's called the barriers to exit basically yes barriers to exit and so at when you when you put barriers to exit in a relationship you reduce tremendously the threat of competition and when you reduce the threat of competition you reduce the energy needed to compete and so as a result of that everybody this is what I call the chiseling chip that people start chiseling each other in their relationship and pretty soon they chisel away at the trade itself and you can you can see what would then take place that essentially the female is thinking well I don't have to like get in such great a shape I don't look bad relative to how I looked before and you know where is he going to go and he's thinking well why should I hustle and look that great and why should I hustle for extra resources what what's the bother we're all stuck in this thing anyway and so as a result they start effectively chiseling each other in a reciprocal fashion and I'm not saying that this is either conscious or that it is inevitable I'm just telling you that it is very common at which point they finally are in a situation where they're not really trading very much at all and the sexuality can can essentially unwind itself down to near nothing or nothing the and a lot of relationships are like this meant much more than that anybody wants to admit and this is uh partly it there's there's numerous possible reasons for this but I will argue that one of the reasons is because there is a lack of a threat of competition in that relationship and that is probably the biggest thing that if you are lucky enough to be in a good relationship you should be highly cognizant of that possibility try and tell the girl you're dating that you're not going to marry her for that reason we'll see how that works listen yeah yeah good yeah next question yeah we're not going to get into that that part but well stare of a still clearer that Joey we here at realm waste on the phone thankfully my mother's not little ad today okay so the next question is the question has to do with sexual chemistry and casual mating strategy versus pair-bond strategy and sexual dynamics in the bedroom so the question is can you discuss what makes things quote hot and heavy in terms of sexual chemistry in the bedroom for casual mating and chemistry meaning how much a woman is enjoying sex if she's achieving orgasms etc and does the difference in sexual market value between men and women create that spark on the part of the female in other words as a man does trading down lead to better casual sex for the woman yes great question love it very very insightful of course it does so I can't tell you how many times I have bit my lip as a psychotherapist or just listening to some women talk to me for some for some reason where they are describing the situation that sounds like as follows and please of course it can go the other direction but since since it's more most memorable to me when it comes from this direction this is how I will describe it dr. Lisle it it was just it was just like a magical it's just so amazing it's just amazing chemistry amazing chemistry you know it was just like just absolutely the best of my life just the best experience I had and you know oh yeah but I don't know what's wrong he you know it has to be both people have to be experiencing that you know it's just part of the magic and how that could see it I could tell how much he was into it - and but he hasn't called me back yeah that's truck it's the best you ever had because you were sleeping up so of course you are incredibly excited in that situation because your genes are calibrating the situation and detecting that they are getting a screaming deal meanwhile the person on the other end of this generally it's the male on the other end of it and the reason why that would be true is because if there's going to be extraordinary excitement in a situation remember that females are the controlling factor in human sexual activity so as a result if the female is receptive and highly excited there's exactly one way that that's going to get there you know other than obviously a great love situation that is a the beginnings of a para bond most likely if the female is all hot and bothered and all excited the reason why that's true is that she's being over rewarded genetically terms of sex appeal and so the yes the answer to the question is yes that if you if you are a male that seeks causal mating strategy with females that are extremely excited to be with you and that are going to be twisting themselves into a yogic pretzel on your behalf that if this is what you seek then by all means head to the bars and hit on the female that is 20 to 30% I'll points lower than your you our estimation wise and go have yourself a grand time there very interesting so we'll be slightly with the more disagreeable males desired this because since they're disagreeable they'll need more feedback than would be fair that that their that their quote performing well oh I wouldn't have thought about that I I would assume that more discreet built males in general I think are going to seek mating in the sense that they don't mind the female getting burned essentially so but no I understand what you're what you're saying there and that's an intriguing idea and I I can't I can't necessarily line that all up we'll have to think about that s'more okay okay final story this is this is a very well thought thought out question a couple of different questions in here but it has to do with the podcast we did a few weeks ago a few months ago about the man paying for the first date and how much we pay for dinner etc etc so dr. Lyle said previously that the best strategy to play to attract women is hair bonding strategy this listener disagrees with this particularly just on a first and second date and in his opinion you should exclusively play casual mating strategy and here's his reasons why first dr. Lyle said you should always pay for dinner and pay for something in your price range this listeners would say no to dinner on the first or second second date unless she's earned it and the reason why is that in the modern dating market the value of dinner to a woman is practically nothing if you take a girl out for dinner it makes you one in a million who's willing to do so and will likely not impress her on top of that there are many women in the modern world who aren't looking for commitment and are only coming for the free resources you will offer this can be a quick drain if you go on a lot of dates and his recommendation is just to take her out for beer for the first date and never go over around ten twenty dollars secondly assuming you make money and are able to take her out on a big expensive dinner you are setting her initial expectations high this will filter for women who like you because of the resources you present and not necessarily due to your personality earlier on the other hand the beer or two will not prevent a girl who's genuinely clicking with your personality from requesting a second date this listener states that he makes a pretty good income and it's scary how women will sniff it out and say all the right things to just try to get a piece of that he says you have to protect yourself and low-balling those first few dates is a little extra protection from the gold diggers finally his theoretical point is if you play pair-bond strategy are you on some level signifying that she has more value than you and therefore you're offering resources to make up for the attraction difference however if you initially play a casual mating strategy you'll position yourself as someone who's fancier than your date this will this raise her level of interest in you as she may wonder what makes you so confident and if her low evaluation of you is calibrated correctly dr. Lisle said that the ultimate goal of a woman would be to pair bond with someone she finds faster than herself that person would typically play casual mating strategy with her by initially approaching with a casual mating strategy and eventually settling into a pair bond situation are you maximizing your chances with prosthetic perspective high quality women okay there's is there's so much in here I'm going if I'm undoubtedly going to miss a whole bunch of it because I just start to wind out the let's uh let's I'm thinking about the very last thing first I've already forgotten the other comments the first of all you're not going to bluff people so one of the big things in this sort of really cheesy third-rate thinking and things like the pickup artist is that these people don't understand that the women have full ability to calibrate you so see huh so keep keep in mind you're not bluffing anybody the so the notion that we are going to signal to women that we're not that impressed with them and therefore we're just going to you know have a beer with them is a this is this is not going to impress any female the money let me explain the situation here we have to we have to begin with the end in mind my recommendations are are coming from a particular perspective that is not always the perspective that would be somebody's the one that someone would be using because their goals might be different my perspective would be that I'm going on this date because I'm interested in the person as a potential pair bond if I am interested in the person as a potential para bond we know what that means we know that the female is more sexually attractive than I am that's why I'm interested in her as a pair bond if the female is not more sexually attractive than I am then I am NOT interested in nervous apparel but in that case I'm not going out on the date okay so so once again we have to get clear you know from from which vantage point my advice is coming from so let's suppose that this takes place if I've already met the woman and I then I'm very interested and and I asked her out you're darn right I'm going to ask her out to dinner for the following reason and incidentally if I haven't met her but I believe that she's more sexually attractive than I am then let's suppose it's match.com or their their tinder or whatever it is then then I'm absolutely going to ask her out to dinner for the following reason the notion that the woman could meet you for a beer and quote click with your personality if she is more sexually attractive than you are as absurd the the truth of the matter is is that women's sexuality is inherently defended and so women don't know this so they will tell you oh no you know there's times when they really click with somebody right they click with somebody who's 10 or 20 percent more sexually attractive than they are that's who they click with okay so of course and so this is a lack of intuition on the male who's not understanding us the the male now can it happen of course again particularly if you're starting to talk about people where everybody's in the top 10 percentile but I'm not talking about that because those people don't need any advice or help anyway so let's suppose we've got a guy who's 6 and let's suppose that what he would really be aiming for legitimately would be a 7 and a half when the seven and a half meets a six for beer and that that's the meeting AHA first of all good luck to you getting that meeting but let's suppose you do the reason why the female would want to meet you for a beer is because she thinks that you're so far below threshold but she's not so sure that she's not she thinks that you're going to be weird and she doesn't want to commit to an hour with you that's what the deal is not after a bunch of resources she's actually trying to save herself a bunch of hassle and time and energy for with some loser that she doesn't want to spend the time with now so let's suppose you're not a loser and you would be interested in her let's suppose you haven't met her but you're a six you think she's a seven and a half you think she's going to qualify at that differential for being pure bond material you hope to qualify one thing I can guarantee you it is exceedingly unlikely that you're going to qualify in the first ten or fifteen minutes okay all of the research indicates but the more exposures that you have to a female the more attractive you will become all things being equal all things being equal ie you're not a jerk you don't have horrendous manners you don't eat with your elbow and your soup and you don't have bad breath okay so let's look at the situation let's look at the situation where she would actually like your personality the truth is is that we know that she will find you more attractive after an hour and a half that she finds you after 15 minutes and now after fifteen minutes let's suppose that that was miss right for you and let's suppose that had you had 15 or 20 exposures to her in a class that you would take over a semester or some art class that you got to know her and her little Walker was next to yours and you got to chitchat with her and she got to know you etcetera well let me tell you something your odds are going up perceptibly with every hours and a half's worth of interaction about our class all through that course of that semester all the research evidence overwhelmingly supports this now so as a result your job at gate one when you are playing para bond strategy is you are already behind my friend already thinks that she's looking for quote instant chemistry because she's had it before she's had it every time some guys 10 or 20 percent more attractive than she is and those guys are interested in seeing her again why the they're interested in short-term counsel mating strategy and she's been dumped in heartbroken nine times in the last you know six years behind this strategy so your strategy is different you're a tortoise and as a result what you're trying to do is just get date number two that's your only job your job on date one is not to cheap it out if you happens that you show up and it turns out that she qualifies for you physically you're there to sell your inner beauty as much as you can as smoothly as you can for the hour and a half that she has granted you to be in front of you the truth of the matter is it is only right and appropriate that you pay the truth is is that her sexuality is vastly more valuable than your sexuality and so as a result you are paying for her time in order to get to pitch to her and this is what is known as being a gentleman okay so you this is honest courtship we're not trying to trick her we're not trying to bluff her we're not trying to cheap it out nothing of the kind now what's going to happen well if it's on match.com or so forth trust me her pictures are ten percent better than the truth so here's I hope it's a better baby you know I mean are you going to get killed by the competition so the bottom line is is that you may wind up catfished and now you're stuck with a dinner situation you know that with somebody that doesn't qualify for you well you make the best of it that that's part of the game of life your job is here to be ready and to be ready to strike chance favors the prepared mind okay you will not get that many chances in this life if you're an average guy you're not going to get that many chances in life with a girl who is you know ten to twenty percent superior to you who would actually find you appealing enough and that the personalities would click well okay she would you know she's no way knows this after 15 minutes and is going to walk away and she will report to her therapist I just didn't feel anything okay that's what she'll tell her friends yeah it didn't just didn't have it didn't have chemistry done you're out of the game okay this is why this entire letter what this guy is writing is is based on some very important misconceptions about the real leverages here that are in this game and how to play the game optimally if what you are seeking is a pair of on strategy David buss has made it very clear that the research shows that a huge percentage of female courtship is honest ok a lot of people are actually trying to play it straight they're trying to find exactly this dynamic situation they're the one of the biggest problems is the female does not know that there is a tremendous cap on her sexuality that can come off over when she's been repeatedly exposed to a male that is actually sufficient quality and personality and sufficiently at threshold with respect to her physical interests she will not know that until she has had repeated interactions with this guy and has gotten to know him and so you will lose if you if you try to cheat this out and not grab every minute of retention that you can mm-hmm and I'm trying to figure out you have the dog download I'm trying to figure out an alliteration for for what I should call [Laughter]
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