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Episode 223: Food vs drugs, Longevity, Dating market while aging, Is Lust a trap
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the California apparently has entered phase three which is we're getting closer to normal and barbershops Hair Salons as long as they follow the guidelines are starting to open back up and there have been a few posts on the Facebook group the fate of fans of beat your genes podcast group just detailing the new data that's known and dr. Lyle I think you're way too humble to do a mic drop but uh but if you did I think I would I would laugh yeah I would like someone needs to create that gif so yeah I think things are looking pretty good yeah what's what yeah it's it's looking like it's it's gonna be basically tail off here at the end of of May which is what we're thinking and you know hats off to the guys up there at the University of Washington it looks like they're they're early projections of the early projections of 93,000 I remember I think that was the first thing that I had read is is turning out to be just you know super accurate yeah so it's good to see there around the world you know basically everything is quieted down and gone through its you know in eight to ten weeks cycles so they're pretty well all done in in in Italy and in Spain and also I'm sure the UK is getting close so and America will will drag on because of our our bigger size and so we will we'll sort of Peter our way out here but hey you know what it's uh storms over and now it's just a little drizzle here from here and then then we've got some work sort of to do putting the economy back together in a smart way but but hey fabulous it's almost over it's like it's like it's like your last final exam it's like one more to go and and then we then we're done and so we're in good shape and then then we're then these guys then we get all the geniuses around the world feverishly working for the next six months to try to both figure out how to treat it better and obviously work on a vaccine and so you know maybe we get a big break or maybe we don't but even if we don't get a big break I'm I have confidence in you know human ingenuity to to chip away at even extremely difficult problems and chip just by chip chip chip chip chip away this thing will not be anything close to the monster next year that it was this year so you know I think I think we've weathered it and if if all of you and your sir are alive and well then you know got through oh good yeah and speaking of geniuses there must be some out there talking about how to prevent a pandemic yeah do we know anybody that that's writing a book on I don't know what do you think doctor I feel like there's a brilliant book that just came out on this today with that yeah so so we're recording this we're pre recording this for the show on Wednesday so today's Tuesday May 26th and my good friend dr. Michael Greger just released a new book called how to survive a pandemic yeah so it's it what I'm talking about talking about all of you know all of the specifics about Kovan 19 so people a lot of people who were listening to this podcast may not be familiar with him and sort of his place in the the general plant-based movement but he he runs a non-profit website called nutritionfacts.org which is the source of evidence-based nutrition of information on all kinds of topics new videos every day and all of the proceeds going to charity so it's an amazing resource for people who are interested in nutrition issues but his background is actually in infectious disease before he moved over to lifestyle medicine so he had had written this book years ago had started this research and couldn't find a willing audience for it and so it sort of moved into the chronic lifestyle disease space but is obviously all of all of this information and all of the work that he had done and all of the knowledge that he had is finding finding new relevance now that we're facing all of this so so it's an amazing book just just came out and deals with what Nate's talking about which is you know the I think one of the things that he's been saying as he's been talking about it is the best way to survive a pandemic is to prevent it from occurring in the first place so and I I am NOT former alert yes spoiler alert do you still need to buy the book guys it's a very kind of you know common-sense approach that is the best way to survive it and I am NOT as as much as I share a lot of Doug's optimism about sort of where this particular situation is heading as far as the raw numbers of it go I think that like dealing with the the actual conditions that made it possible and likely and even inevitable is not something that we've really grappled with meaningfully and specifically the relationship that we have as a civilization with the animals that we raise for food because these are all pandemics are all linked to our relationships with animals in animal agriculture and in this case wet markets and and all of the other things that we've sort of touched on and talked about but the book really gets into the history of that and how all of the major pandemics of the last many centuries have been zoonotic and linked to our behavior and our interactions with animals and then on the effects side the sort of that's also another question that we haven't really grappled with what you were we sort of talked about okay well yeah people Cove in nineteen is disproportionately affecting people with pre-existing condition and comorbidities who are sort of vulnerable vulnerable to it because of poor health but why why is that why are we dealing with such poor poor health outcomes at the population level and all of those pre-existing conditions that make people more vulnerable to some sort of disease like this are also happen to be most immediately addressed by a plant-based diet so so it covers a lot of ground so we just happen to know of this resource that is available to people should they be interested in learning more about this topic some people don't if people don't know dr. Greger well first of all anybody has ever heard him speak you'd never forget it he's he's utterly unique as a speaker the and outstanding by the way but the but any rate of those who you don't it's it's entertaining there's nobody like them so very cool I'm looking forward to reading this book and I am too and it's a doctor well so this this also has to do with the book that you wrote the pleasure trap sure as far as the addictive property so this goes into our first question of the show it has to taught that that has to do with with this which dear dr. Lisle and dear dr. hawk I love this podcast had to get that out first I just have a few questions that would be very helpful if I could get an answer so my question is how does withdrawal and tolerance in drug usage compared to eating foods with addictive properties in terms of trying to quit for instance would planning a strict day and time for a specific portioned healthy meal once a week then after get straight back on the wagon aid in keeping tolerance low and cravings at bay or is complete abstinence the key to lifelong success in ending the addiction the reason this listeners asking is because quote I've been trying for about three years to be whole food plant-based but I've never made it more than thirty days and when I cave into crap foods each time it's making me doubt that I could ever achieve this success yeah I can I can start with that Doug if you want to jump in but I actually I've you know I've thought a lot about this question because I've sort of done my time with alcohol addiction as well as sometime in the pleasure trap is most of us have so I have my personal experience and then also just talking to clients and thinking about this a lot so the the thing to kind of think about when you're when you're looking at an addictive or a so-called addictive relationship with food is that the continuum of addictive substances starts at the point at which food at which any substance starts to become something that you wouldn't have been able to encounter in the Stone Age there there was no addictive subs of any type in the Stone Age other than an occasional pile of fermented fruit that you might stumble into or something very something very short-term but there wasn't you know there was an alcohol there weren't cigarettes and there certainly wasn't processed food so so everything if you're gonna draw a line of you know mildly addictive like properties that some food will will begin to have when you start to process it all the way up the up the chain to cigarettes or you know even before you get to cigarette something like coffee and then cigarettes and alcohol and continuing up to cocaine and to heroin and to meth you're you're moving up this chain of substances that are becoming increasingly sort of unnatural and non non stone-age congruent and therefore having more potential addictive properties and so if you're if you have a relationship with food that you're thinking of as addictive it means that there in your diet you have food that is not food that you would have had access to or gotten yourself into in the Stone Age that's like that's just the baseline so if you if you lived in a in a context on an island where you didn't have access to any kind of super normal food of any kind and that would include some of the some of the very low-grade super normal food that we will try to stay away from at true north and that chef AJ recommends and certainly that Nate recommends at the fasting escape which is you know even even including like flour products any any kind of salt oil sugar anything like that that's making the food more palatable and more processed that is that is something that you wouldn't have had around in the Stone Age and if you were on this magical island where we all you had was absolutely whole plant food you wouldn't eat addictively you would just eat to satiety and you would be done and even if you were having a really stressful day and you a extra papaya that day you wouldn't you wouldn't be suffering any kind of health consequences or you wouldn't be at all overweight because it just it you wouldn't you wouldn't get into this thing that we start calling an addictive relationship to food so it's it's all it's all a continuum and it's all individual to to your particular nervous system and what you're most susceptible to and you know some people there's there's sort of this this idea that people will jump from addiction to addiction and I sort of see that implied by this question a little bit so you know if you quit alcohol then you're gonna replace it with food or with coffee or if you quit smoking weed you're gonna start drinking more alcohol and this is it's not it doesn't really work like that they're not addictions don't substitute for each other like that they're all they're all very specific to the individual so you can have somebody who is very genetically predisposed to alcoholism but tries cocaine and it does nothing for them or vice versa so so that happens all the time and the same thing is going to be true with food where some people are just they're a little more hair-trigger ii around foods that are slightly processed and slightly super normal so some people can get away with it and have a little bit in their diet and be able to stick to a mostly very healthy diet the rest of the time and that little bit of super normal food doesn't send them down the the addictive rabbit hole like it will for somebody else who has one little taste of super normal food and that's it they're gone they kick over the table they're there there's there's a phrase in 12-step called you get a case of the efforts you know you're just like no I'm screw it I don't care about it anymore I'm just gonna I'm gonna lean into my addiction and it's all over so this is a very very individual process so there's no there's no specific answer to whether complete abstinence is what you need to stay to stay compliant or not but I'm I'm suspecting most the time when I talk to people and certainly my own experience you're not you're not being purely compliant on completely whole natural food for that thirty days before your your caving as you put it so you there's something in there that's keeping that little addictive circuit alive and it's it's it's causing you a lot of stress and making and making that decision over and over and over again multiple times a day to do the right thing so you just you your success here depends on limiting the amount of times per day that you're requiring yourself to call upon your willpower to make the right decision so that's why we talk so relentlessly about getting the environment right you don't want to be putting yourself in that decision in that place where you have to make that decision you you want it to be a non decision you want to create the island with the magical Stone Age food as much as possible and if you do that for for 30 days you're gonna find most likely that the the cravings the the addictive patterns are going to get so quieted down that you're not you're not walking that line where you're feeling like you're on the brink of a relapse all the time like you will feel if you're keeping the little addictive flame alive with slightly super normal food and so I understand that that's really hard to do if you're living a normal life in a normal household sharing it with other people and there's you don't have total control of your environment which is why we always kind of joke not joke that one of the best things that you can do for yourself is to check yourself into jail so you've got a break you got a break the process like you Nate Nate is chuckling as the warden of his own prison system but but this is really important because you're you're also probably in a set of circumstances that we call a conditioned cram circuit to some degree where you're you're not only getting yourself into food that is super normal by Stone Age standards but you've conditioned to the process that you've you've like enabled the little addictive process by consistently linking a super normal food to a certain time of day a certain set of rituals and patterns and when the podcast finishes hot when the podcast finishes you go get your vegan pizza your food on me so totally this is and we've talked about that before so I won't totally belabor the the notion because I don't want to spend the entire podcast on this but it is you always be aware that you're completely capable of setting up this little this little conditioning loop this little you know well this thing this these are all the little cues that I'm perceiving that happen at the same time every day and this is the time that I get into some sort of supernormal stimuli that I am not adapted to be able to handle and for some people it's completely unfair but that can be almond butter on Ezekiel bread or it can be you know futon noodle soup or something something that is just slightly over processed that's going to keep you in this little raggedy addictive like place where it makes it makes doing battle with us so much harder than it has to be if you like once you have gotten yourself fully free of whatever that threshold is for you and you were in you were in a relationship with food where you were you were not getting into anything that is approaching super normal it's a very freeing place to be because the the nervous system finally gives up the fight or largely gives up the fight and you're you're not you're not doing battle with your willpower constantly like you are when you're in that initial withdrawal phase so it's a gift that you should give yourself at least once with your if you're in a calibration process in trying to experiment with this and it may be the case that you have to you have to completely get yourself out of your food environment and check yourself into jail at the fasting escape or at TrueNorth if you can get past the waitlist or somewhere like that to to just give yourself that chance to really reset the whole system and understand what it feels like to get out of a super normal relationship with food wonderful yeah thank you for that answer dr. Hawk yeah go to jail calling it fasting escape call it the fasting fasting Jail fasting prison just like that yeah just like that get you that notoriety of a big sign outside a little street urchin please sir [Laughter] well I do say that that the fasting escape when people finish the program we they graduate and we call them the fasting escapees striped shirts there you go you sometimes have to spackle the wall I do have to sometimes spackle the wall next to the headboard scratch the number of nights they all right next question you know all right our next question few doctors it seems so far that calorie restriction might not offer the degree of increased longevity benefits for humans as is found in mice and other animals if you took an evolutionary perspective on this what might you guess could explain why humans don't get quite the boost that other animals do do you think humans and perhaps some other animals I don't know say polar bears who sometimes go a very long time between meals do you think they have the physiology that might expect to go hungry fairly often so it's required for a normal lifespan rather than causing an abnormally longer one yeah yeah yeah this is a calorie restriction and longevity was you know sort of a fascinating discovery I don't know who first did it it was probably 40 years ago and the it was certainly it fired up a awful lot of speculation and and and so before enough was known about it of course we had a few wackos they decided they were gonna do it so just to just to explain to people that don't know about this caloric restriction is the was the finding that if you would take rats for example and let them eat healthy rat chow at at libitum ie as much as they want they're at a certain weight and they'll live a certain lifestyle to I think it was something like 70% of that level of or can take they will live you know 50 to 100 percent longer so I think lifespans may typically extend by 50% or so and so you can and you it was actually discovered that this would be true and essentially every species that had been looked at like 33 species something like that so this of course you could look at this and you had some some bright crazy people that decided you know by 1980 that they'd seen enough and they were gonna do it and so they did so you got some of these people walking around and they were they were deterred they're determined they're down there eating you know you know 70 percent of normal calories the way you can usually do that and not go absolutely crazy is to to eat all raw if you're just eating a great deal of raw food that's low calorie density raw food you just basically stuff the the gut with copious amounts of of low calorie density food and that way you don't go crazy because you're constantly activating stretch receptors in the stomach saying that you're okay even though the system knows it's on the brink of starvation now the it's it's going to turn out some interesting things happen when you do this and the the first thing of interest is you don't live any longer so that's the bad news okay so the question is why okay so well we could talk just a little bit it turns out that part of the effect of so-called calorie restriction lengthening life has to do with the the fact that even with original rat studies they weren't necessarily feeding them whole natural ruffed and the reading their their eating process rat chow and as a result of that the rats would have some percentages of obesity hypertension diabetes etc and so it turns out that part of the effect we were seeing was that in regional studies sometimes those animals were being slightly systematically over fed by an unnatural diet so obviously if you're being systematically overfed by a little bit then if you cut the calories and you have a rat not eating as much as it wants you're not really at 70 percent of add a little bit of meeting you're probably at 80 percent or 90 percent so you're not you're not stressing the system as much as you think you are and you're actually reducing the likelihood of diseases of dietary excess which is a chief you know reason why animals and people died a little bit earlier than they would need to now it's going to turn out that for humans humans are eating way on average more than they should so as a result if you were to take a typical diet and you were to actually have people eat an appropriate amount of calories with that diet they would be they'd be in semis starvation mode psychologically in other words they wouldn't be very satisfied at all just because there's not enough stretch reception with such concentrated food and so they would feel maybe knowing at their knuckles but they would they would be appropriate at normal weight is what would happen and so with a with that reduction in food intake you would see an increase in lifespan because you'd have a reduction of diseases of dietary excess so it wouldn't be as good as a whole natural foods diet because you'd still have some heart disease because people would be eating a lot of animal food and some other things but they wouldn't be eating it in the amounts so now we're gonna walk our way to okay what on earth is the life expectancy effect why does it exist and why can't we replicate it in human life well I'm pretty sure we could but it turns out that the effect is actually caused by have in certain species maybe humans maybe not it may not be a genetic characteristic of humans but it probably is and that is that if you restrict calories indefinitely from inception from early childhood what's going to happen is you will stop the progression of its maturity into a sexually reproducing organism so you can essentially keep it in a state of suspended animation and if you do that so that's what's going on with these other species so if you take a rat at birth and you you let it only eat 70% of what it wants to eat what it will do is it will not become a sexually mature adult and by doing that you you can ascend there's things that take place when you B become mature that there's just a bunch of machinery that has to get brought online and then you go through a process a life cycle process strangely enough in many organisms if you frustrate that process the organism has the capability somehow of sort of being in this netherland state and and not and it so it takes it's almost like it's waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting to put its foot on the gas until it finally gets enough food where it could then finally become a sexually mature organism and then do what it was designed to do which is to find sex romance love and whatever is okay so a solubles si that's right so it turns out that we don't know whether or not this would work in humans but of course it would be utterly unethical and absurd to ever try they may be able to figure out certainly I think that that you'll see characteristics of this for example in anorexic girls where if they are consistently anorexic you know starting at age 10 or 11 I think I think you can see essentially we just call youthful cues that can be extended I think that's correct and and so you're seeing evidence of that it probably probably will they probably won't restrict for long enough through their light through the entire life man - to keep themselves and svet suspended animation and extend their life I don't think it probably would work or if it does it would probably be a very small effect and also there's going to be deleterious effects as a result of semele starvation malnutrition etc so is it possible yes is it worth anything it's an utterly worthless idea and so I was actually kind of relieved to find this out I think it was in the 1990s when when this became evident and the so because I had been worried like you know Doug got any guts you ought to be do ya hmm and uh see the kids just thinking like hey if I did this you know God there might be 40 or 50 years on the table you know would this should this be worth doing and the answer is no and you don't see any place on earth where people have been struggling on the edge for calories and eating you know essentially underneath what their hunger Drive is and that they live significantly longer than anybody else they don't so there's no evidence that if you get enough food to get to sexual maturity that there's any extra lifespan and getting tacked off at the end so now enjoy your whole natural foods don't be systematically overweight by eating foods that are overly rich and you know enjoy the party because we only get so much of it and it's done wonderful thank you dr. Lisle right for clarifying all right our next question dear doctors we became a big fan of you all during lockdown I also recently celebrated my 30th birthday during this time as fun and different as it was the classic questions have now come to mind about dating and settling down I'm single have not been on a date in two years I know my chances are decreasing by the year of quote finding a mate and I am worried that males will be able to tell that I'm not as young as is ideal is there any way of avoiding this or giving off the aloo or impression that I still have value on the market as much as a twenty-something [Music] [Laughter] question upsets me I'm not touching this thing where where's my toxic masculinity alarm when I need it no I mean I'm genuinely I'm genuinely upset by this question because it's it's coming from a very authentic place and I completely understand what she's asking and why she's asking it and and it's it's it's rooted in very real mate value algorithms that we have talked about you know ad nauseam on the show and and I just but I feel that it's um I yeah there's no sort of framing this is like how can i how can I give off the illusion or the impression that I still have value on the market as much as a younger woman this is not the this is not what the enterprise that you should be engaged and there's not the way to think about this so so I yeah you you all things equal in from a stone-age perspective you know putting on our little evolutionary psychology hats here you you do have less objective mate value then then someone who has more more fertility capacity and is giving off more fertility cues so that's that is that is the sort of overarching thing that is driving this question and I completely appreciate that and understand why you're why a young woman would want to kind of hack that situation and of course that's what the entire beauty industry is that's that's um that's what women are are constantly doing and and I am NOT trying to suggest that there's not there's not a really important and worthwhile logic behind that and and that it's the question is out of bounds at all but it's IIIi want just try to steer you away from this kind of all-encompassing [Music] qualification anxiety this kind of idea that that you you were in a position where you have to relentlessly market yourself to the exclusion of enjoying your life and it doesn't it doesn't mean that you you shouldn't be doing your best to market yourself for the best possible mate that you can find because you should be both both because that's that's a big thing that you're you're looking at turning thirty especially if you want to have kids this is an important goal for you but also that that is going to be the process by which you're going to derive a lot of important self-esteem processes so so getting yourself in the in the best shape that you can get in and looking the best that you can get you can you can look and putting yourself out there is the best representative of who it is that you are and representing yourself to the stone-age village as the sum total of everything that you have to offer those are all important and worthwhile and valid things to be doing and you want to be doing all of that to the best of your abilities because that is the way to secure the best mate that is out there for you and it's also the way to feel as good about yourself as you were able to feel and to drive the the pride and the enjoyment of your achievement process that is going to contribute to a meaningful self-esteem but that's a very different kind of orientation to all of this then then the way that this question is framed which is something that I hear a lot and and particularly women who are kind of adjacent to this EP world start started thinking in this way in a in a way that is really detracting from their enjoyment of their own life and their own in their own life experience because they're completely oriented toward this toward this problem and toward this anxiety that they are they're losing by the day I mean you there's something in this question about how your your chances are decreasing by the year and that's just that's a little bit of a self-defeating somewhat tragic way to think about it so so it's I just want to pivot you back toward living living their life in a way where your you're living it for yourself and and your qualifying for the the best possible mate who is going to be over rewarded by you and that is the that's the nature of the game no matter how this goes down and so so you you want to be doing it in a way that is allowing you to enjoy the process rather than go through it in this state of intense self-loathing and and worry that you're you're losing the game to younger women so it's it's a little bit of a subtle distinction but I think it's a really important one and I think it's it's important for women to sort of grapple with who are would otherwise be have a lot to learn from evolutionary psychology and in a lot a lot of different ways to optimize their life in general but kind of run into this line of of thinking around this particular problem and are really put off by it so I consider it a bit of a personal mission to to integrate the two so that's my boy that's my feminist rant for the night okay I'll go back and be quiet now yeah no I'd like to add a little bit of a concept the and this is what I call the moving cohort so you have to understand that that as you age your your cohort that you're interested in is aging as well and so this is so if you're a thirty the the you at twenty-one you really weren't interested I mean you weren't interested in unlikely you were interested in a forty year old and it's very unlikely a forty year old was interested in you they might interested in looking at you but they weren't really interested in you when you're when you're thirty you know you're your market now is who knows twenty seven to forty five okay so that that that is a different and as you ate when you're thirty five your market is thirty two if you're I don't know lucky and hot thirty-two to you know fifty or forty five or whatever it is for you subjectively so the point is is that you know when you're 50 the your you are still absolutely in the game but if you're a 50 year old female you're not in the game for a 32 year old male I mean maybe you are if you're Joan Collins for a while but the truth of the matter is is that that's just not how life works and you probably wouldn't be interested in a 32 year old guy when you're 50 so you're this is the moving cohort and so you know what we all are worried intuitively about our competitive standing I can't tell you how many people said to me well what women want is blah blah blah these days it's like now that just means that that you're intimidated by the competitive problem and you're upset about it just like everybody else and you I have women say well women want is this or that well let's say suppose you're a 45 year old attractive female doing a good job trying to compete and you feel like wait a minute there's these 25 year old women walking by wouldn't the guy prefer them no no he wouldn't so not you're a guy he actually would not prefer that and so that's a that's a misunderstanding of the moving cohort and and so that's just how that works that is true that that both males and females males start losing their power there they're generalized attractiveness as they turn 40 so get with it mate make hay while the Sun shines the point is is that he's sort of a male turning 40 is not dissimilar to a female turning 30 and so with that process you know the moving clothes and cohort starts to have increasing meaning for both but in no way does it does attract anybody into a situation where they can't compete you're dealing with the same competitive parameters that you always had and the the 50 year old male honest-to-goodness almost never would prefer a 25 year old to a 40 year old very unlikely the now if you're 40 what might he preferred 38 yes but that doesn't mean he gets it so everybody's designed by nature to be essentially not excited about the the job that would pay the most in their industry they're excited about a really good job that they feel like it's a great all-around deal and it's the best deal they've seen in a long time and they just think it's going to be a fantastic job that's what a great mate is a great mate isn't that this guy is saying well gee you know if you were 10 years younger it'd be even better deal well theoretically that may be true but the truth of the matter is he's not even thinking that he would remotely qualify let's suppose the guy's 46 he's not thinking he's likely to qualify for somebody who's 32 if he does it's some wingnut in all probability so the truth of the matter is what's his real market his real market is closer to us on edge that's where all things considered that trade is going to work so does he does he want as much youth and beauty as he can get yes under conditions where all other things are being considered so again as Jen says there's no reason to catastrophize ever about our own personal competitive situation do we have angst about it of course welcome to life welcome to running Jimmy's taco stand this is Jimmy concerned about his competitive situation of course he is we're all concerned about our relative competitive situation the beauty of it is is that we don't have to you know become the CEO of Taco Bell and on the world we just have to run a good taco stand and be profitable and that means being emotionally profitable finding competing for earning finding and winning a wonderful love relationship and if we're lucky we need one and then we're in great shape wonderful dr. Lyle in all fairness I have a pretty clean garage as knate knate has berries that get me anything throw into this too and we've we've talked about this before but this is um you know the kind of trap that that this questioners describing of you know giving off the impression that you're you're competitive with the 20-somethings that is something that is going to be really reinforced by making like approaching the problem primarily through apps and specifically apps and casual mating yeah because you're right essentially you're participating in a casual mating derby without thinking that you are you think that you're on therefore to find a para bond and you think that you're going to be able to fish a pair bond out of that that ridiculous mess of casual mating shenanigans and the incentives are such that and we've and we've talked about this before and I have a video about this but the women are they're only they're they're not understanding the moving cohort and so they haven't recalibrated to that and and they are they're responding only to men that they're immediately very over rewarded by so they're swiping through the app and they're they're saying yes oh he's hot yeah I'd like that and they and they're getting cues from the the men who are participating in the in the apps that they would potentially qualify for para bond because they're they're sleeping with the guys and they're they seem to qualify and then they get confused when they get ghosted because they're they're bypassing the whole repeat exposure process that is so important to happen to finding a really good solid pair bond where he's over rewarded and you are growing to admire his character and personality and and stabilizing the connection through a more organic process so it's if you're if you're in the game where you're trying to like compete with 20 year-olds by getting the angle on your selfie just right on your tinder app that is the wrong game to be playing you if you're unless you're looking to casually mate but it doesn't sound like you are from this question it sounds like you're looking to find your your life partner so I would just recommend in that case that you you go at least towards some sort of if you're gonna if you're gonna do online dating that you start your search with the websites that require some kind of male investment as part of the process so they're paying you know some fee to match or to ie harmony or to whatever instead of just downloading a free app and swiping freely so excellent that's wonderful that's wonderful let's yeah this is our next question just flows beautifully from dr. Hawks answer which is is following your lust just another pleasure trap that will leave you dissatisfied long-term we've talked about this on the show that you've talked about this on the show before doctor while a few years ago about the vasopressin hormone but this question asks should a person who is not pair-bond oriented try to work towards this for long-term happiness or would it be akin to trying to change your personality a very fine question I'm gonna bet it came from a male just 90% chance yeah yeah and my answer would be I wouldn't be trying to change anything about my personality and less until I until I was discovering that I kept doing something repeatedly that was self-destructive and casual mating strategy isn't self-destructive in principle so the so the answer would be no and I think that my way of figuring out how to live this life is it's a it's a process of discovering who it is that you are you don't change that it's a process of discovery and so if this person is heavily counseled mating strategy oriented that is probably the way it is except it those those two strategies first of all it's as overly simplistic to see them as two dichotomies it's actually a continuum and so and it's a continuum that that is context dependent so for example let's take an average conscientious guy average disagreeable agreeable average emotional stability super handsome smart so and and it has managed with that intelligence and other assets is is is good high income so he's I income super handsome he's 35 years old and he's intermediate level disagreeable so he's reasonably agreeable but he's reasonably disagreeable and he's average conscientious this guy is it is right in the kill zone for casual mating strategy it's a perfect situation and now because he's not so conscientiously and the kill zone Doug yeah happens when I leave you guys alone for a week I don't know all right so this is this is this guy's gonna steal a lot of points this guy's gonna rack up a big score okay now so the thing is though that as life goes on his context may change so now he's 50 years old he's not now he's not so screaming handsome and and and so now he's having to do what in order to get for example the same tens that he was getting with these when he was 35 he now has to provision them more and he has to actually make more signals that he may be para bond interested so we start to see the life of Warren Beatty okay who finally quote settled down at 60 okay so mornin ad who is super wealthy super talented super ridiculous handsome and so now anybody in this generation now but sinem now says what do you mean he's handsome well you didn't see him you know in 1965 or 1975 guy was ridiculous handsome and so and so as a result you know he just had his way with the world as you would expect the about what happens is that finally his mate value slips starts getting chiseled down that little half a percent a year between his 40th birthday and a 60th birthday and so at some point he becomes a nine and so to get a 10 yes to para bond which is exactly what he did so this is so this question is my attitude is be yourself and don't worry about it as long as you're you know you're not getting your face gouge too much but the point is is that you know life will will give you different opportunities in different situations and you'll learn so I had a friend of mine like this it's somebody that Jen and I both know who was a very cool drummer disagreeable pushy big strong good-looking guy okay and this guy this guy had his way you know around the country as a waste no opportunity to tell you so Bailey right the boy it is is it 38 he ran into miss right and that was that it was it was done he didn't even have any cognate well he did he had cognitive dissonance for two weeks after he met her for 15 minutes he he went home thought about it in fact he went up to the old tune Hotel Center which was like a cheapo version of fasting escape and he went up there and contemplated his future and he thought am I gonna call this girl back or not and he ran the Seabee in that two weeks and he he came back and decided yeah I'm gonna do it and his first date out with her first real date he took her home to meet his mother he just knew and so that that's the that's the story of one of my best friends so that's an example of a guy who really thought that he would always be a casual mating plater player he just didn't see how that he had been a casual mating player from 16 to 38 and finally one day the circumstances you know presented him with a situation where suddenly he found his pair bond strategy and so this individual your pair bond strategy is within you whether or not you ever trip over it or not is unknown but there's nothing in the world this is casual mating strategy is not a pleasure trap it's just a it's an individual personality characteristic I'm you know under you know being activated under certain conditions so no worries nothing to think about just you know be reasonably smart about it that's all yeah I mean obviously the question if it did come from a female the answer is a little different yeah don't thought that it did but if this is a female quite you know if you're a female sort of like the earlier questioner who's sort of caught caught in a casual mating loop because that seems to be the demand of the market to remain competitive with the wrong cohort that you're competing with that's a whole different set of problems yes hence depends a lot on what your goals are and whether you whether you do want a pair bond and you in and/or children and so that's gonna be a very individual process but that would require a little more a little more discernment on the part of a female if she's if she's caught in that loop but Shirin different question for another day
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