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Episode 19: Common Dating Traps and how to avoid them
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this week we are going to be talking about common dating traps and common dating relationships problems that people might get caught up in and how to how to avoid them and if you can't avoid them how to get out of them sound good dr. Lyle sounds good last week we had a listener who emailed us and he wanted to get some advice from dr. Lyle and kind of get this beat your genes scenario here so I'm going to read this email here dear dr. Lyle thank you for the great show today received a lot of insight but I wanted to get a quick analysis from you guys my background is I'm a 33 year old male I'm relatively fit athletic have two degrees I'm above-average intelligence I'm currently working in education and I would describe myself as an 8 out of 10 my girlfriend is 25 she also works in education she's above average intelligence and I would describe her as a seven out of ten now originally for about six months I pursued a casual mating strategy with this woman I used virtually no resources on her and still received the benefit of sex and other relationship advantages I had no interest in a relationship with her or anybody as I had been pursuing an exclusively casual mating strategy for about six years she it seems to me was comfortable with this arrangement somewhere along the line we began to fall in love and I decided to make a commitment to her I make less money than she does and don't have many resources other than experience but she's still willing to be in a long-term pair bond with me I'm very happy with what we have right now but I'm not sure this will have a future long-term how would you explain a situation through the lens of evolutionary psychology and what did you what if any advice do you have for me well it's a interesting question in a relatively unusual situation the it's I don't have a lot of advice for people that are in good relationships and are all happy about it so hey you know go live and enjoy yourself the the advice comes when there's conflict and trouble and then we try to analyze those issues from from the smartest perspective we can in order to give better advice in order to help people make better decisions but right now the decision is when you're in a good situation you just you just live it the this is I think what's I think what maybe a little bit puzzling and what gave rise to the question was that this is an unusual relatively unusual situation where the male would be considered probably it through his own vision he believes that he is higher mating status than the female and and yet he is finding himself so we see in the pattern of the relationship started exactly as we would have expected in that he was willing to sleep down and she was very happy about sleeping up and she was not putting any pair-bond pressure on him because she was essentially pleased to be in the game she was feeling over rewarded in the situation and we see further evidence of this in other words this we were sort of taking this young man's assessment at face value and there would appear to be some supporting evidence from what we're seeing in the fact that she makes more money even though she's eight years younger than he is that she makes more money than he does doesn't seem to have any problem with this and as completely was completely fine with being treated essentially as a casual mating part partner for many months without having any significant investment on his part in her financially and apparently in other words the little emotional accoutrements that would would make it look like a pair bond he wasn't treating her that way and yet she was fine with us and this tells me that his assessment of the relative mate value in the open market has probably got some accuracy to it or else she's just or else she's wrong and it turns out that she just happens to be a very very nice girl that is fine you know it is just very easygoing but most people are not easygoing most people are actually negotiating pretty you with pre fine pencil points when it comes to their mid value so we're going to assume that he's right because it would appear that was the case and and so what we see is a situation where force per for whatever interesting reasons he sees her inner beauty and he has now responded to it and has become it's become sort of integrated in with her overall mate value and he he loves this girl which is fantastic so the obviously we expect that the following is true that we expect that there there's a little bit of pressure that is sitting on side the system if they go on a cruise and somebody that's a nine kind of starts flirting with him when his girlfriend slash wife isn't around like what's going to happen to mr. eight okay also what's going to happen to mr. eight if it turns out he's got any ambition and any significant ability which she's got to two degrees s to master's degrees or whatever so he's this is uh this is not a guy that is that is without some some diligence and if he rises in the world it's a little puzzling with a twenty five-year-old in the same general area of education is out earning a 33 year old but maybe she just I don't know how why did this is true but if he's got some ambition and he ends up actualizing that ability and does better financially that could also put pressure on his psychology as he might feel like he's got some options opening up but he doesn't have now so this is a so this is all the little evolutionary perspectives that would be tickling through my brain if I was here in a conversation about this however when it comes to advice my attitude is great this is this is essentially this is the dream that females live females dream that that they are going to be able to sleep up and through their inner beauty capture somebody that's fancier than they are that happens to be and usually they capture him through essentially being available as a casual mating strategy partner in other words I'm not putting on any pressure making it no hassle with respect to the sexuality and then the guy finds himself all bonded up because it turns out our our guy was full of vasopressin and by the time he had sex with a woman for a few months and she was a nice girl he finds himself all woven up by his own biology fantastic okay this is a this is a wonderful situation for both people and we wish him the very best of luck wonderful so I've always I've often wondered whether or not this situation comes out of potential life from males laziness whereas you know if he was going to try to pursue an eight or a nine or you know I guess rarely a ten you'd have to put a lot of work into it he'd have to start taking more risk to earn more to earn more resources and and he'd have to face a lot of rejection before he got an eight nine or a ten he was willing to mate with him and so yeah in my mind yeah yes I think you put your finger on something that uh it's very interesting there there were people in the world that were just as smart and had just as much artistic eye and and you know and just as much natural savvy as Steve Jobs but they didn't turn into Steve Jobs because they didn't have this ferocious ambition and it's not their fault and there's nothing in the world wrong with them and they're a lot less crazy and it turns out they probably had happier lives and Steve Jobs so males differ tremendously and how hard they are willing to work for these very subtle reproductive advantages and usually they're willing to work pretty hard but there's also a there's a cost-benefit analysis that sits underneath all all actions in by by all you know conscious entities all all animals are running cost-benefit analysis every second of their lives and this is going to include the human male as he analyzes his mating landscape and his his age and his prospects and the probabilities of what he can come up with it's a it's a fantastical multi-dimensional and impossible to optimize matrix because you have no idea what's around the corner you will find that the average male is is you know sets the bar pretty high for himself now we know that this is true and let me tell you why we know this is true because there's a thing called Bride Magazine okay I don't see anything out there that says groom magazine not a single one the only magazine you're going to start find out there is called Bride Magazine why is it because to actually get a pretty good deal to commit to you and get down on his knees and saying he's going to give this all his life and resources to you forever that's a big damn deal to get to make that happen okay and so as a result what we see is that why isn't that happening because male set the bar pretty damn high relative to what their feedback is as they bang around in the mating market and so they calibrate their way through this market and they tend to set the bar high our guy here in this situation is essentially saying hey I'm having a good life experience and I have to tell you he is fortunate to have found the situation where he in fact qualifies easily and qualit for with someone who's probably going to be very cooperative in this life with them because she feels over rewarded and if he can actually have great feelings be attracted to her uh then wonderful it's just it's it's of course the advice we would give everybody in the world if they would only take it G just sleep down 10% you can get a fantastic Yemen but the truth of the matter is that's not what how human beings are built human beings are built and negotiate for the last mutation on the table to actually try to to try to get there the very best the fanciest mates that they can get and so most of us simply do not have it as an option inside of our head to to sleep down this guy really didn't either he discovered that he found his brain shift he didn't actually he wasn't going in with that as a plan it happened to him turns out he has a lot more busy pressing in there than that he even knew and that's what that is hmm oh so the long story is yeah Jane Goodall when she was studying a particular chimpanzee troop in Gumby there was a big strong male athletic male named Humphrey in the troop and it was very clear to her that Humphrey could have been alpha and Humphrey never got off his ass he just never became alpha and he was alpha a couple of different alphas tried to essentially recruit Humphrey by by making females available to him during estrus and so on and so forth and trying to be his pal and huh so Humphrey wound up being somebody's first lieutenant and had pretty good circumstances and and this all sounds like you know baloney but actually they tracked very carefully the copulations of the different males with the different females throughout the chimp troop and they could see that when when it when the alpha actually was able to befriend Humphrey and essentially get his lieutenancy with respect to the other males that Humphreys mating went up but it didn't go up as much as alphas went up so they the two of them had this deal that they cut but it was obvious to everybody observing this I mean all the humans that Humphrey could have been alpha without any problem but think of Humphrey as a 110 IQ big strong guy that looks like a bouncer and yet he doesn't even want to be Napoleon because he doesn't have napoleon's chops he doesn't have napoleon's toughness he's got a lot going for him and he makes a great set of muscles but he is not going to run the show okay and in some ways our guy here the way he's talking about his life situation may have a certain amount of that characteristic in him in other words this is not a shit-kicking I'm going to be alpha kind of a guy this they is it is a more even keeled not so highly testosterone eyes character that is sounds like a very nice guy who's found a terrific girl that is just starry-eyed about him and you know what they've skin the cat they've they've accidentally beat the genes and good for them I hope it lasts forever so I guess so it isn't really laziness I guess that's that's a misnomer it's just more of a certain right to circumstances in the genes that just causes a male to not be as status seeking I guess as as has somebody else yes so witness my psychology so ferociously competitive and status seeking but I never qualify for anybody that so here we are you dead have been paddling around the canoe by yourself for the rest of our life this is life okay so this is uh this is just human beings have these individual differences and they're simply we certainly try to engineer away our way around them but usually we don't have a choice so some people a in other words in this case it's better to be lucky than good and so in this case this guy did not do a lifetime of mate searching and trying to optimizing his abilities in the marketplace didn't do a damn thing okay all he did was wandered into a cow so mating situation and turns out that her inner beauty tickled his oppressor circuits and he's skinning the cat good for him all systems go now I've often wondered in situations like this not with this particular listener but in general we've taught and the whole nature versus nurture I mean we've talked before that most of this are actually all of this you said is nature that's just kind of how our genes are and I've always wondered well let's say you've got you know wanted like a male or female whatever and they're in a in a situation where they are being over rewarded or under rewarded by their parents or sisters or their family or whatever it is would that lead to to an eventual say you know over competition or something when they when they get older or under competition if they were under rewarded oh I see what you're saying now no what you're referring to is just so the listeners would be clarified people believe that if you spoil their children you're going to wind up with the spoiled adult this is not true okay the you can spoil if some kids jeans are for him to be very fair and very reasonable with other people and to be actually humble about his contributions and so forth it doesn't matter how you spoil them they're not going to become spoiled in the same way if you are if you are tough and fair on spoiled brat and you know really have good boundaries all this kind of stuff it's not going to make any difference as soon as you let them out of the house into the real world spoiled brat behavior is going to be emanating out of them so the there are there are certainly going to be probably some short and intermediate term effects that people are over awarded for a while so something some guy that's that is over rewarded because some some strange reason some prom queen was interested in him and so for some reason he gets a little heady you know I'm saying and then then he dumps her because God knows because she laughs funny because he decides he can do better and so then it turns out you know the next girl down the line the next thing that he can get anywhere close to is a seven and a half and suddenly our boy goes through a transformation where his assessment of himself may have to drop a little a couple of notches but notice that it does drop okay so the of course I think a better example of this would be an employee that is over compensated and doesn't know it so they're making sixty eight thousand dollars a year and they're getting all uppity because they're their friend Susie just got a raise to eighty eight thousand in some somehow related industry and Susie pushed forward and got it and so now they're like well I need to push and get it will they push and then they get fired okay so now they're like well I think that's ridiculous I'm worth you know I'm worth 75,000 they turned out in the open market they're worth 48 okay so they've got a bitter pill to swallow as they get recalibrated and they could have easily been over compensated in a situation for a while and it gets them miss calibrated so miss calibration happens but personality change never happens okay so you can you can be Miss calibrated for a while and to an outside observer who's being a very objection you can look like you're narcissistic because it's like you know you're you don't know what the hell you're talking about you are not worth $75,000 and say yes I am it's like well no you're not okay and it turns out that a honest reasonable person could have been over compensated and not know it and then look narcissistic but they will not remain narcissistic as soon as they get their comeuppance okay but the so that's going to happen from time to time in human nature and individuals life the same is also true on the other side but a person who is actually fancier then their being compensated for can can actually find out to their great delight that they have actually underestimated what their market potential is and they can you for eclis then recalibrate up okay so there's these things happen as market feedback is not not entirely accurate in other words it's not entirely objective throughout the whole course of versus lifetime so there's going to be vicissitudes about what's going to happen with respect to feedback and one's sense of esteem in the market place and therefore expectations but more or less though these things iron out over time and sort of entitled me for selfish narcissistic people will be that way to their dying day and people that are that are humble and pleasant and even-keeled etcetera will be like that to their dying day and so yeah the feedback the feedback doesn't make them in wonderful this is an excellent segue because we were actually going to be talk about an article that I read on WebMD called seven solutions that can save a relationship and this is all about doing exactly what you just talked about is not possible okay all right let's go all right loves here okay so so this is an article talking about that you know if your your couple it's pretty rare that you don't run into a few bumps on the road and if you can recognize ahead of time what those problems might be you can have a good chance of getting past them so relationship problem number one we're not yeah right yeah relationship problem number one and the problem and then we're going to go over the the the solution and then we're going to get your opinion on the solution got it reason to problem number one a communique why wait do I have to wait until you tell me what the problem is and their solution for I talk do I have to choke it down all the way to then okay feel free to interrupt a relationship problem number one communication all relationship problems stem from poor communication you can't communicate while you're checking your blackberry watching TV or flipping through the sports section problem solving strategies do you want to jump in there is is this I'm hold on I'm sucking my thumb vigorously problem solving so here's how you solve this problem apparently you make an actual appointment with each other if you live together put the cell phones on vibrate put the kids to bed and let the calls go to voicemail if you can't communicate without raising your voices go to a public spot where you'd be embarrassed if anyone saw you screaming set up some rules try not to interrupt until your partner is done and ban phrases like you always or you never and then use your body language to show you're listening like don't doodle don't look at your watch don't pick at your nails nod actively so the person knows you're getting the message and then rephrase things if you need to they have examples of this but I'm sure you know you can't wait to give us your take oh my god oh my god alright first of all the person that wrote this is an idiot totally they don't know anything about to ecology and they don't know anything about psychotherapy and they've obviously never seen a couple in counseling or if they did they never helped anybody okay first and foremost communication problems are almost non-existent in relationships okay it is the biggest lie that was ever told that the problems in human relationships men when relationships are communication they are not communication people communicate brilliantly okay they communicate through five channels of communication but you can't miss it they communicate in words voice tone body posture facial expression and touch like there's no missing what they're communicating okay now here's what people are saying like let's suppose that I take a gunshot and I shoot my kneecap off okay and I'm in screaming agony and somebody says oh man that's terrible you got a bleeding missing kneecap you're you're in a lot of pain I'm like yeah I'm on a lot of pain like that's bad it's bad to have that happen that's a lot of pain that's a bad thing it's like no shit Sherlock that's a really bad thing what are we not talking about we're not talking about the gunshot Sam saying the gunshots what caused the problem here we're saying all the communication the communication the communication no morons it's what's being communicated is unpleasant okay so these two people these this couple has has conflicts they have problems the communication isn't causing the problems the communication is evidence that there is a problem big difference all right so let me give you an example an example would be for example let's suppose that the husband and wife or are having an argument about money because the husband's upset the jr. that the wife took got a jr. to the mall and spend $150 on a pair of sneakers okay so let's just walk our way through this mess and see what's actually going on so the husband's like pissed off right he works hard at his factory job she's got a job two and they've got a kid and the wife is you know want to the wife this kid is her only jeans that she's ever going to reproduce so the the Sun rises and sets on this child all right as far as she's concerned all of the resources let's suppose these parents are 42 all right all the kids a 12 year old little would be basketball star so as far as the wife is concerned all the resources ought to go to the kid the husband man while he looks at the wife and the wife's 40 pounds overweight not interested in screwing her anymore okay goes to work and he's let himself go a little bit but in his mind he's thinking well now wait a second is this over for me am I never going to have any hot romance again you know I'm saying so he is thinking about how the resources you know he would like to actually keep some of those resources quietly for himself and maybe you know one day head to a strip bar and let off a little steam right but he he doesn't say this of course he doesn't even it's illegal to mention that the wife as a weight problem okay because that's going to be a disaster and so what's actually happening in here is they may be quite irritated with each other and the husband signaling is irritation about the money and the wife is not misunderstanding this signal the wife actually understands wait a minute I know what this is about you want to take resources and direct them towards other women and other possible offspring whereas I want to direct the resources towards our child so screw you okay because the message he's giving her is you're not that beautiful and she hears that message loud and clear now and the truth is he feels absolutely justified in his anger because he's very frustrated because he's locked into this marriage and he wouldn't be there you know if they had a competitive process in the village etc etcetera so in other words he he has lost the game of beat the jeans and they're both of them are in kind of a muddled mess they both love jr. her butt now looks to it superficially this looks like he's being cheap to his son which is not it's just that he has other genetic fish to fry band his only son and so all this is percolating down and we go to the strengths office we're going to talk about communication it's like I don't know you're not you can talk to the cows come home about oh you need to act like you're respectful don't you know make sure that your body language that we look them in the eye let the other person finish till they speak this is all nonsense today what's happening underneath here is there's enormous conflict in this relationship and those conflicts are being signaled through multi-dimensional communication strategies on the part of both people they know what's at the core they don't actually raise those actual issues because they cannot resolve them those issues are actually too difficult for them to resolve and so what happens is they signal the negotiation between them by in this case his angry about 150 bucks okay and she signals her irritation with him and they they dance around this problem that it's at the core of their life and they will never resolve it okay but if we talk about what's wrong with our relationship well we have hard communication no you don't you've got brilliant communication and both of you are tacitly agreeing but we're not going to actually peel back the layers far enough to get to the core issue because we know that we can't solve it so this is a this is a BS 101 and psychotherapists are all trained at the nice little nice little friendly - friendly to work you know the appropriate culture all the politically correct little messages about what is really wrong with relationships and nobody has the guts to follow their own intuition psychotherapists do not have the guts even major league people that I won't name when I when I read their works and I and I listen to what it is that they have to say they are gutless okay they do not go to the core of what actually the relationship dynamics are that is the core of the dynamics okay you when it comes to serious conflicts and relationship the core dynamic is that somebody if there is a problem it is being signaled and those signals are being picked up and the truth of the matter is what the core dynamic is somebody is percolating on the concept of defection okay that's actually what is at the core if that is not at the core okay if those two people are both really into the relationship then if they have some arguments everybody knows those arguments are relatively superficial and there's nothing behind the curtain that we don't want to talk about okay it really is I'm pissed about the hundred fifty bucks when that happens those people don't have problems in their communication they have occasional moderate modest little flare-ups almost never in 25 years of doing couples therapy almost never have I ever seen a time when there was actually a misunderstanding between those two people about what they were communicating a couple of times when I actually uncovered it it was fantastic okay it's absolutely fantastic where I actually ground the people through the communication process and we found out there was a misunderstanding and some hurt feelings behind some misunderstandings incidentally okay it's going to be rare for those to carry over very long before all of the other signals in the relationship that go on in a week or two don't signal to everybody how much they care and how much you know that that some there was some turbulence that was short-term and it's over they might not ever really figure out what the problem was with that individual issue but it turns out that the relationship itself like essentially an immune system heals the damn illness and gets right past it and then they move on okay because they send such obvious signals to each other during the days and weeks to follow about how much they value each other now the fundamental issue is esteem dynamics okay the fundamental issue is at the core of how much one person values another person and they will send esteem signals to communicate that and when there are problems in relationships the problems are not caused by communication communication is the symptom not the problem big mistake and that article is crazy all right yes what else that well we've got six more to go so you so I'm looking for Dad all right well moving right along the next relationship problem is sex okay so yeah even partners a even partners who love each other can be a mismatched sexually says Mary Jo Faye author of please dear not tonight she says a lack of sexual self awareness and education worsens these problems but having sex is one of the last things you should give up the author says sex brings us closer together releases hormones that help our bodies both physically mentally and keeps the chemistry of a healthy couple healthy and here's her problem-solving strategies plan plan plan the author suggests making an appointment but not necessarily at night maybe during the baby's afternoon nap or before work quickie when sex is on the calendar she says it increases your anticipation why not have sex in the kitchen or by the fire or standing up in the hallway changing things up can make sex more fun I'm all for this but maybe not in the same in the same planning situation as she is okay learn what truly turns you and your partner on by coming up with a personal sexy list says another psychotherapist Allison Cohen swap the lists and create scenarios that turn both of you on and if your sexual relationship problems can't be resolved on your own say recommends consulting a qualified sex therapist to help you address and resolve your issues all right have I been silent long enough almost I'm choking it down I only had dinner recently so it's this is not easy for me to listen to this okay first of all the at both what I've heard out of both these questions I hate to say it but this is very chick doc okay this is very chick doc the first things chick talk like it's all about our communication problems it ain't about your communication problems there's underlying conflicts and dynamics that are driving the problem then we're going to hear about sex problems have to do with oh you know we need to change things up and grab that back okay no I don't think so this it's perfectly fine for a couple that is you know very happy in their relationship sexually to then play around and have some fun and do Spiewak E and wild things and to sort of stretch their boundaries no problem at all but that is not the problem people people that are that are looking to solve problems by doing that our way out abouts not even close to the truth okay the truth is like this that that sexual dynamics really resolve around two fundamental classes of esteem signals the male believes that the female is beautiful and sexually attractive bad at a point one okay if that is not true guess what he's not very interested okay so of course there are males that that you know have very low standards and so they could actually not think a woman is attracted and still have sex with her but when we're talking about a feeling of being in love with somebody and being very connected to them if the male does not feel like the female is beautiful to him he's not going to be that into it okay number two the female needs to feel like she admires who the hell this person is okay so the female is her mind is actually more wrapped around who the male human is as a person and so if she is not admiring of him as a person then she is not going to be into this sexually for very long okay it doesn't matter how it doesn't matter how he yells and screams and ties or poles or pigtail or whatever okay how talented he is with his tongue this is a joke okay this goes nowhere for very long at all unless she admires who it is that he is a person if she doesn't Mayer who he is as a person this is done okay she is out of it now she will send this signal back you talk about not tonight dear I'll tell you not tonight they're not an idea is I don't admire the human being then you can forget it okay that's a female's perspective now we got a problem when it turns out they're married they got a couple of kids and are walked into this thing together now we got a big problem on our hands now the second of all the male is not finding the female attractive guess what swing it from the chandeliers and put it on a bunch of negligee isn't going to do a damn thing okay I don't care what you wear how much lipstick you put on if he doesn't find you attractive now for whatever reason he doesn't find you attractive we're you're done okay this is not going to be fixable so once again these authors are skimming along the politically correct surface of these problems and they're not understanding the fundamental chord dynamics that's in underneath them incidentally I don't want to talk about I don't want to give the impression that they are this is clean and only one direction it is very possible for females to actually admire a male but actually find him physically abhorrent because he's 50 pounds overweight and he wasn't that way seven years ago when they met I'm saying so it's not it doesn't just go one direction in this way but I will tell you there's a very strong tendency and what I'm giving you are very very strong stereotypes about how it is that man women dynamics actually work this is at the core of man women dynamics if you do not have that esteem dynamics between those two people you have a relationship that is headed to being dead below the waist if it isn't already and there's not a damn thing in the world that any of these prescriptions are going to do to help it okay you need to address those core dynamics and if you don't address them you will fail I had a woman is a very prominent woman in the world that that very self-confident was in a marriage that the the husband hadn't hadn't wanted her in years again she was she was an older woman and and then I I suggested to her that the reason was that she is overweight and I explained to her that males are designed by nature to look at the s-curve from from the male to female torso down down to the side of their thighs and essentially looking for fertility kids and at women even her age which is over 50 could absolutely show evidence of those fertility hues if it is if they lost weight okay so anyway she went to the trouble of actually losing significant weight and she let me know she lost about 20 or 25 pounds and she told me that suddenly what happened was her husband when he would hug her he would actually his hands were wandering down along her hip line and to feel her up and he hadn't done that in five or six years and it rekindled their sexual relationship no communication no bullshit okay no swinging from the chandeliers no makeup nothing what happened is is that for people to think that this is this tentative and that we have to dress it up and talk about it and schedule it for God's sakes remember what your biology is telling you your biology is telling you to mate repetitively two or three or four times a week in order to get genes to the next generation you don't need to stoke this thing and if you're needing to stoke it there's a problem okay that partner's not that appealing so the this is not something that you know that any animal needs to be coached in and there's no reason out let me point something else out that they did talk about very earlier somebody some comment and this was was insightful and that is that there is there are people that are very not very sexually experienced um they may not have they may not have been very attractive or they may be inherently a little clumsy or there may not be inherently very intuitive in other words there's people that are that are actually they can you know by their 30th birthday they can be still not very with it okay and that's that's no crime and and and so there is there can be some learning done probably the one communication question that is worth asking a partner if you have one is to ask them how they like to be touched if you can't figure it out okay and sometimes what you will get from them is you you might get some really interesting information it takes some courage a little bit of courage to ask that question in other words your bet but I want people to know that it's a completely legitimate question to ask the there isn't one way to get a woman to orgasm and there isn't one way that a guy likes things guys aren't guys and girls on girls the truth is there's considerable individual variation in people's sexuality and so therefore some questioning even explicit questioning not just nonverbal testing some explicit questioning among people that are very that are very close that really care about each other is really can be very worthwhile so that is a that is one point in the world where I would say communication can can be worth doing and worth doing well wonderful you know along the same vein I read a couple of excerpts from a book a few months ago called married man sex life and this was all approaching this exact issue but from a man's perspective because obviously this is the problem right people get into dead bedroom situations when they're married but what this book was basically saying was to to start giving cues to your partner that you're the Alpha that you're the he-man and so what they what it suggested was that this couple the examples that they had was that you know a man's been married to his wife for say you know 10 10 20 years the sex has dried up but in the middle of that what the guy ends up doing is he tries to be more helpful so he does more dishes he does more cleaning he kind of eases the load for his wife because he thinks that's the problem and what this book is actually saying is no that's not actually the problem it's not that you're not doing enough housework it's that that you're you're taking on a submissive role and so so yeah that is actually very interesting that that is one of the more interesting and intelligent things that I've heard even though I'm sure it's largely bullshit but at least somebody is trying to use their brain ok now the truth of the matter is this once again goes down to the notion I actually I actually have a phrase that I would describe how relationships go people people will believe that and this goes so upside down to the way that I think about everything else in life so this is a little bit of a mismatch for wording than what people have maybe heard me talk about before of anybody's listen to me when it comes to goal-setting in life that what's most important is the process and not the outcome in other words it's how it is that you do it do you do things in the right way and you do things to the best of your ability if you do then whatever the hell the outcome is the outcome and we may not get the job and we may not get the girl we may not get the academy award but the truth of the matter is if you do things well and you do them in the right way you will earn self-esteem and you will so the process by which you do this is actually more important than the outcome now when it comes to relationships I will spin I will use the same words but I'm talking a little bit of a different language but a very key concept and that is the process has nothing to do with it because the truth of the matter is is that people naturally and brilliantly vet each other for what they look like how they move what their personalities are etc etc ok they do this and it either ignites and sustains love psychology or it does not so the process has nothing to do with it so this if this guy is acting it's absurd quite frankly whoever said this that the notion is is to act like an alpha round your house and order the bitch around and slap around a couple of times let her know you're not going to do shit see I'm saying like as if that somehow that she's going to be weak in the knees as if she just ran into a young Arnold Schwarzenegger you know I'm saying what they're over here what he says what he says he says he says not to do that it's he says go back to the hobbies that you did when you first met your wife because what in evitable happens is I mean I'm sure this happens with the opposite sex as well but what inevitably happens in these examples was the man marries his wife and then he just work takes over he gains extra weight he stops going to the gym he stops doing his his hobbies all the things that made his wife admire his character so what the author suggesting is go back to those things have things that you have hobbies for let your wife admire your character again instead of just looking at you as an ATM machine that works and just puts money into her and the house and the children well there's a except that I have to tell you that if you work hard to your career and you make money and you put money to the wife and children then the female recognizes the character that it takes to do that okay so it's not like this is a this is a misunderstanding on this guy's part and so he's not actually understanding that the female is very sophisticated and actually looking through the person's life choices and processes and is is observing that guy's character in action okay so it's a very superficial thing to say Oh we'll go back to the way before because that's what she was attracted to no she was attracted to the diligence and hard working this and an ambition that took you to be the leading scorer on your little intramural basketball team you know I'm saying she was that's what she didn't give a damn about the fact that you play basketball she gave a damn about the diligence and competitiveness that was involved okay why care about that because she cared about village politics and whether or not you would rise in hierarchies and be able to get gather political and material resources for her in the village okay that's why she even had that admiration ship in the first place okay so this is uh this is again looking looking at the superficial surface in this case it's the same kind of mistake except much more sophisticated it than the other bozos who had ridiculous ideas okay I know this is uh yeah this is but this is all however the truth is matter is is that people's attraction and assessment of their partners are multi-dimensional they are physical and they are mental and psychological as well and so there's both mental and physical processes so if you are some guy and you are kind of out of shape and you have you turned yourself round you know don't think that this isn't registering inside of your partner's head it very well might and if she seems like you are less sexually appealing and she's saying not tonight dear okay let me tell you something there there could be excellent reasons why that is true one of them might be that you're not in good shape one of them may be that it's exceedingly and likely that the reason is is that you're being overly accommodating to her in the conflicts of interest over time and energy in that household that I think is complete crock okay wonderful yeah okay you ready ready for the ready for the next one we've got a few more to go okay relationship problems about money yeah so money problems can start even before the wedding vows are exchanged they can stem for example from the expenses of courtship or from the high cost of a wedding the National Foundation for credit counseling recommends that couples who have money woes take a deep breath and have a serious conversation about finances so problem solving strategies for this is to be honest about your current financial situation if things have gone south continuing the same lifestyles unrealistic don't approach the subject in the heat of battle instead set aside a time that's convenient and non-threatening and acknowledge that one partner might be a saver and what partner might be a spender and agree to learn from each other's tendencies don't hide income or debt don't blame construct a joint budget and decide which person will be responsible for paying the bills and then allow each person to have independence by setting aside money to be spent at his or her just her discretion and then decide upon short-term and long-term goals and then talk about caring for your parents as they age and how to appropriately plan for their financial needs if needed blah blah blah now we're now we want--we one or not okay now let's talk about let's talk about some things because there's elements of here that are useful and yet there's a fundamental concept that is yeah it's important for people the one thing is is that we know that there's a reason why people are not hired in pairs in jobs like you don't go to a job with your friend and they say okay we'll both of you you both of you are going to do this job and then you're both together you're going to make $60,000 and then you guys divide it in half no but that's how it works in the world you go get a job you get the job for 30,000 see I'm saying your friend get some other job she makes 28 or she makes 36 everybody's got their own individual job and they've got their own individual income because the truth is is that human beings are not communists it's not how they work okay there's a reason you can imagine what life would look like if we said oh we're going to we're going to all hire you and blocks of 100 okay okay well you can do some of that it's called union labor and you will you'll actually see people disincentivize to do their best now there's there's reasons for it and it can half-ass work and that's but it's problematic and that's why you got a National Labor Relations Board and all kind of problems but the bottom line is you won't seal see this in a real estate office you won't see this in a sales job okay it's going to be you know your incentives are tied to what it is that you do suddenly when you become a couple suddenly we're all going to put you we're going to quote work equally hard pile all the money in the middle and then we're going to spend it together this is this is a fundamentally communistic situation and it's laden with trouble okay now are there people that can do it yes are the relationships where the people can do this no question and those people you know know who they are and they don't have a problem and I'm not going to give them any advice but in principle the advice that I have for people is that you keep your own money set okay so let's suppose for example that you've got a situation where the guy earns 10,000 a month in the girl in its 2,000 a month so of course we don't say well everybody's going to pay you know thousand a month for rent you pay a thousand I pay a thousand now that isn't how you would do it what you want them to be is you wanted them to be at the same socioeconomic status okay that that's how you're actually going to want them to be but they still have their own money okay so for example so it may be that he's going to pay all the rent and he's going to pay for the cars he's going to pay for everything and now so he's got about two thousand dollars a month left over to spend and she's got two thousand dollars that she earns to spend now that's fair okay if they're in a relationship and they love each other they both are sitting now at exactly the same socioeconomic status but they've got as much of their own money as we can muster okay it may be that if they live fairly frugally he may give her another thousand and she's got her two thousand that she earns plus a thousand from him and now they each have three thousand dollars a month discretionary income now they do with that discretionary income whatever it is that they want that's that's how you want the grot to the extent that it isn't directly threatening to the relationship if somebody chooses to do so they do the guy goes spence three thousand dollars on strippers you know i think this is going to wind up being a problem why so motivated and why he would do that but if he wants to go play golf with his buddies at a high-end golf course that cost two hundred fifty dollars around we do not want her saying well what's that so I'm saying if she wants to go take a thousand dollars and buy a pair of really fancy shoes at Nordstrom's we don't want him saying what the hell so I'm saying we don't want them having conflicts over their consumption they will have conflicts over their consumption if the concept is we pile the money in and we then everybody spends until it's gone basically that's a problem okay because now every dollar she spends is a dollar I don't get to spend and it creates a dynamic tension at a conflict of interest in them in that relationship so however it is that you figure it out you want the two people to be at the same socioeconomic status level and then you want them to have their independent money okay from that independent money think how this changes the relationship if I'm a saver than I might save my whole 3 grand one month Samsung then also in when it comes to times to give gifts when you give somebody a gift and you actually give her a $500 coat then she it didn't come out of the community pot it came out of your money and it's a gift that you gave her Anna means a lot more that way okay how many times have some GAD like look kids don't buy me anything or look honey please don't buy me anything like I I you know in my first I was married a long time ago and I told my wife she said what do you want for Christmas I said deposit receipts give me deposit each and put them in a box that's what I want to see when I open up my Christmas present okay yeah that you know it became a running joke I said I told her ed never got the deposit receipt all right so this is how we you know if they're if finances are conflictual which very often they are but sometimes they aren't there will be people listening to us tonight that will say well I we just don't have any problems and that's because they happen to see eye to eye so well that it isn't a problem but for people for whom it is a problem they're not saving money there's irritation between the two of them there's a little bit of a frustration when one of them spends money on something people that are doing that are adding conflict into the relationship and our eroding potentially their love okay they are better off quote sitting down as is suggested here and having some some really straight conversations around some very very straightforward parameters equals socioeconomic status and after that we each have our own money okay and and sometimes that you know that that's going to involve one partner subsidizing the other but sometimes not particularly but one way or the other that has to be fixed so that everybody's got their independent money people are much more frugal when it's their own money they are much more responsible with their own money than where they are with the group money okay and we have a hard time seems unfriendly to make the money independent and of course we're not going to make the house bills or things like that independent but by god your discretionary income that should be independent and it should be totally independent yeah and it seems like the minute you add someone else whether it's a romantic partner or anybody else to your money pool it becomes a zero-sum situation there if they take something out you lose and if you take something about a lose I've no question it's absolutely and if people are particularly if they're one of them or both are very agreeable people this gets to be a problem you know and you just sort of let it go and let it go and let it go and then you never did a deposit receipt for Christmas yeah I would think that if two disagreeable people were together then it would create a problem because it would be constantly tight on more than their fair share that's you but all it takes is uh yeah I mean whatever the combination is there's a lot of bad combinations okay okay when you have that situation that's not a situation you want
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