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Episode 186: Male Female dynamics Part 2 with Drs Doug Lisle and Jen Howk
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I'm a 23 year old single girl and I need help with dating exclamation point I would describe myself that was a nine no I'm pretty and fit and educated and have a great job since I've graduated college I have had an extremely difficult time with dating because I'm pretty I have no problem at acting attracting attention whether it's at work or out on a bar or out on a dating app I'm constantly approached by men we exchanged numbers and things go then things go terribly wrong one pattern that was repeating is that the guy expresses his interest and texts me constantly but he never asks me out this can go on for months in some cases of the men that asked me out there's absolutely no move to be physical and to make matters worse they leave the check sitting there until I offer to pay and then they take me up on it it doesn't matter if they are extremely good-looking and successful or not so hot looking at a couch potato I can't find anyone that is interested in me what is going on am I ever going to find a mate well yeah floating across my crystal ball I don't know what it means it's actually interesting and yeah so let's let's play Sherlock Holmes so let's look at this so the the person is is fit pretty educated subscribing has a great job ie isn't isn't a walking calamity train wreck that generally what I get attracted to [Laughter] at least you can admit it my brother okay I didn't throw my brother under the bus briefly so my brother of one seizure obviously he's past this stage now his current girlfriend is just you know lovely and wonderful but he had he had a period where he just dated crazy chicks and I asked him I'm like you know like a grip on this and he's like that's what they all say that's such a cover yeah my face starts to look around errs oh there you go mask said like three raging testosterone brilliant all right so she's not not a calamity we've established that she's not not a calamity Sherlock very and she's getting interested in being approached they're they're approaching her but then they're not they're not making moves and they're they're not buying her it's really interesting this that this sort of problem with this actually folks is when you get and Jen who does counselling one-on-one counseling just as I do the the problem is is that when people give you a story and the story is actually not coherent now it doesn't makes Rights we'd have to ask a lot more questions because the story doesn't make sense if these things are really true and she's not a calamity and she is a nine and she's getting approached it's it's indicating that something's going terribly wrong on the date itself but there's if all of those things hold true either either that's happening well we're just not getting the full background story or there's a massive Mis calibration or narcissism and underestimation of attractiveness or something yeah it adds up so badly it wouldn't be the case that for example men would take their number and then just text her but never ask her out this is never never won a Netflix on show like no it doesn't make sense like there's maybe she's being asked out and she's not perceiving that she's being asked out maybe their eye their propositioning her and she's yeah not getting it I don't know what it is but it's not yeah the problem is is that since it doesn't since they since the data is not accurate we can't really give this person in the advice yes yes the EP computer shorts out the first thing you have to do right is to actually collect some data that's truth and then when you when you get back to us then then we can might be able to help you all right yes if you if you told us you know exactly so you walk us through exactly what one of these situations how it happens like who is the guy how did he how do you encounter each other did you meet at a bar did you meet on a nap what how does he ask you out where do you meet what do you talk about what happens and like we'd have to have all of those little constituent parts to make sense of it we're certainly there could be all kinds of systemic things going on which could be interesting very good right all right soldier on hmm all right dear doctors mm-hmm should be dear Harvard doctor and the other guy the other guy somewhere in the East Coast right deep south somewhere that's good let's go all right if I slept with someone that I like too soon and they are showing less interest in me is there a way to get their interest back I remember one episode you mentioned while looking your best was a way to do this which I'm working on losing some weight are there any psychological mind tactics that I can practice in the meantime if someone's actively ignoring you is it best to do the same thing and reciprocate ignoring them I'm not lettin Jen have this oh man well yeah if you so if you slept with them too soon and he's not interested in you he's he's casual mating strategy the casual mating strategy bell went off in his head whether it was there from the beginning or not and you do not qualify for pair bond in this moment in principle I suppose I yeah this would be a question for the man's planner on the show but the principle if circumstance has changed and you you had a physical change and you lost a lot of weight and you were a different proposition for that çb at a point in the future that he could potentially reevaluate the pair bond and that you might qualify in the future if there was a significant change in that direction but in the meantime I would not I would not do any of this kind of gamy stuff that you're hinting at here in terms of ignoring back or anything like that I would just focus on making yourself as competitive as possible and you know seeing what happens in that relationship but not investing too much in it in the in the meantime in any kind of game II sort of sense that would be my take on it and not and not to expect that anything is ever gonna happen in terms of convincing this guy that you were that you qualify for a pair of lines because he kind of already tested that out and you were casual mating material and that's that but if you pay a lot of money to some of these dating ladies dating coach ladies a lot of money a lot of money they they watch star very carefully and there's Jedi Mind Tricks oh I maybe I should hire one of them because I'm not aware uh well so I've got so these psychological mind tactics I've heard this a lot growing up from from different women that either I've dated or have just been in my life and that they believed that yeah the rules that they can they can still manipulate the situation and the most successful women married to the most successful men are the ones who are you know pull the guy like a puppet on the strings you know even there's a movie my my my family really like called the Big Fat Greek Wedding and one of the quotes in there was the wife of the husband of the wife of the the patriarch of the family says well yeah you're the head of the family but I'm the neck and so I moved the head wherever I wanted to go the disagreeable streak in me has always find that a little a little bit irritating but I wonder if there's any truth to it well here's what I would say that that the nature of of marketing it in advertising is to to try to yeah you have to understand yeah in other words your design she's not competing in a marketplace where everybody is over selling and so everybody's discounting the messages that they get and you're you're in a game theory you know hard push nightmare whether you're selling dodge darts or you're selling refrigerators it's all the same new better improved better than the other guys 10% off so this is what it is and so of course you're going to get there's always a possibility that you can how manipulate somebody out of an estimation of you by a few percentage points for a short period of time yeah yeah oh sure you definitely course that you're gonna pay the total situation as Jen was saying the truth is already out you know the the so the situation is you're not going to be tricking someone who's already assessed you very effectively the that that's going to be out the door so the the the best time for that kind of Sh cannery is early and and even if you pull it off it's you're not it's not going to stick because we're talking about getting people to the altar with fifty thousand dollar wedding investment and given away the the cows romantic strategy for the rest of his life we're not talking about selling a hamburger or a beer that says bless telling filling tastes great we're your so this is all yeah it's just slightly later to think that people can pull this off not that it sometimes can't be if you if you put your harpoon in just the right highly agreeable highly conscientious SAP if he's a gripe yes yes exactly I think that's when people have these success stories or the you know the women of the rules or whatever it's because she was disagreeable and she had a lot of push and she was able to play these games it wasn't the nature of the games themselves it was the fact that they were they had the right mark they had they had a SAP and and dragged him all the way to the altar and is that a relationship that you want to be in for the rest of your life do you do you want to be you know dealing with the psychological burden of knowing that you did that and that's the way that you got there well if you're a narcissistic disagreeable woman who was able to willing to play those games to get there then maybe you are but if you're not and you're trying to strategically use these psychological mind games to secure some kind of short-term outcome then you're you're not going to be able to sustain what you get as a result of those games over the long term without feeling a lot of dissonance about it and a lot of unhappiness is absolutely not that that answered my question in every which possible way good all right you you're gonna you'll be a pair of under all this drama in my life has caused all these problems you know finally you're undoing this we need that we need to stop it horn all right okay dear doctor what one of you yeah yeah how the question regarding a full moon on the female psyche I think this is once for doctor Hawke regarding the full moon on the female psyche the mother of my two children becomes more abusive and more unstable during a full moon generally she is a pretty tricky person to deal with and tripping over some pretty little trap opens as trivial tripping over some petty little trap opens a gate for verbal and sometimes physical abuse she often blamed the full moon or PMS for these episodes but she's rarely a picnic in the park in between I think she's quite open to new experience as she ritually puts her crystal collection out for cleansing in the full moon takes relationship advice from her psychic and sends me lists of pop psychology articles to tell me where I'm going wrong my question is whether there's any validity validity to the claim that the full moon has on anyone's psychology or is it just an excuse for bad behavior and just some New Age hippie nonsense for people who are high in openness well this is a fascinating question for about six different reasons the we can have fun with Jen's answer and then I can answer or I can answer and they drink and have fun or whatever we want to do so I'm just I'm the sideshow that just gives a little bit of entertainment but the real that's where the real science comes from and cleaner that's how this works okay got it yeah yeah well I some of the listeners may know this some of them may not that I I have what dr. Lisle likes to give me a lot of crap about he calls it a mystic ship so a mystic chip is just that I'm very high I'm high in openness on the big5 and I'm very open-minded and in my past life my mum passed life here on earth and this lifetime I have been very very interested in these kinds of ideas and I actually worked as an astrologer for many years which I now look back on as just reflective of my long-standing interest in individual differences so it was always there I just really misinterpreted and had the wrong venue for that kind of that kind of interest but so I think a lot of a lot of the time this kind of situation I mean the question is really revealing the true nature of the the query the way that he's saying oh she's rarely a picnic in between and she's using this as an excuse that this is fundamentally what's going on you've got kind of a an open potentially unstable disagreeable person who is using the full moon as a permission engine to behave more badly than usual there's nothing causal going on with the moon that's affecting her hormones or anything like that it's it's that she you'll you'll see this reflected and all kinds of aggregate sociological crime data and everything else that it's not the moon's not making people crazy but it's giving them permission to behave in crazier ways so there's sort of a there's the cost of doing so is just becomes lower for that collective moment and that's that's my take on generally what's happening here despite the fact that I have a fully functioning mystic chip and would otherwise be very sympathetic to these claims but in this case I literally do have crystals and rocks that I have purified under full moon so I know I know what if I speak with this question but you know not for many many many years so my crystal collection has taken a deep decline superb just absolutely fabulous answer super super and yeah that's it that she's nailed it oh no you're not gonna give a scientistic answer that's really really good job [Laughter] all right all right fantastic so dear doctors you just finished reading a book by David buss and there was a part about mates talking that really stuck out to me he mentioned that men who were rejected by a more attractive female were much more likely to stalk the female within six months of the breakup so what advice would you give to a female who's being stalked well there's a there's a couple of things there's a few different things come to mind so one of the obviously we have to have a lot of detail about what's the nature of the stocking the so how dangerous does it look how aggressive is it how law-breaking is it these are all components of this the I would I would bring in the law and yes yeah I mean if so yeah I want to bring in the law yeah if it's if it's sufficiently aggressive even even if it's not if it's if you're not sure and it's sort of on the line that it seems it seems like he's walking back and forth over a line I would bring in the law just because I want him intimidated and and I want it on record so even if you were to seek a restraining order and it was denied the point is is that he's now highly sensitized and realizes he it will probably be granted particularly if it's a limited restraining order for certain things you know social media phone contact etc etc which is mostly is probably going to be I think you know that that is often the form that these things take is that it's just online harassment and they're not these guys aren't very often showing up in at someone's door and trying to break in so it's a lot of online harassment so yeah training order is good so that that's where we go with that and so it and so if we're talking about something where the the male in question has a more aggressive history if there's been an abusive history with the specific woman you know how how stable or unstable is that personality and how how disagreeable etc how violent what the violence the sir is these are all features that go into the calculation so just in in my history I've had to deal with quite a bit of this and and you know I did 15 years in criminal justice psychology so I've seen many cases on both sides of this and and for example so it goes all the way from essentially we begin by never let me yeah this is another this is another aspect answer to this question which is that if you're a reasonable person and it turns out that your ex is actually quite disagreeable and therefore you know pursuing you fee and knows intuitively by the person his genetics down deep that he's over awarded he may not feel over awarded because he's disagreeable he feels like he deserves you but however he yes but who knows there's neural circuits and where he knows that this is the Europe prize and so he also knows that he got to that prize and so he knows intuitively that if he bet if he's been to the to the well he's had sex with his female multiple times and had a relationship with her then there's a very good chance that he can reestablish it and so he he knows that the way to do this is to make the the cost of not being with him so great that even though the benefit of being with him may be small it's just it's just worth it to just get rid of the harassment so this is actually the the the blunt instrument of a male wooing at this level with a highly disagreeable over rewarded you know low conscientious shithead male that's what it is that's literally what they're doing and behind it oftentimes there's a latent serious threat of violence that that is sits behind the engine and so it all depends what you know what are all the constellation of factors so this goes it begins on one end where the guy is actually very civilized but he's obsessing and he's still you know he's just he's pretty decent human with a decent job decent intelligence decent you know as impulse control and he just can't kind of let it go no problem you don't talk to him you know you set the deadline down you say listen we're moving on and I'm not going to answer any of your email and I'm not going to answer the phone when you call I'm gonna block your number and that's that and if you ever call around a block number and I hear your voice I'm gonna hang up and it's not personal this is just how it has to go you need to move on you're a great person okay and there's somebody perfect out there for you and but it's just not me not right now I've got issues I'm working on ie this is how this is crazy girlfriend crazy boyfriend right off my website yeah this yeah this is yeah this is one of the important points but a lot of it is the the way that you reject the guy like you're making you're making this you know it's not it's not you it's me I have problems kind of like you're you're you're protecting his esteem in this process as much as possible it eclis incorrect advice obviously but you can you can head off a lot of this kind of behavior at the pass if you are careful enough with the rejection process that you're not unnecessarily initiating the sequence of stalking that you would if you were had a harder edge to it yes it's also a useful signal to say that you're telling your friends or your mother or somebody about how great he is but it's just not the right time for you okay yes so we're essentially telling really we're giving him good kudos in the village so that he's got something to lose even though he's losing the relationship he's got something more to lose if he loses this yeah right yes so this is our equation so there's it's very good chance that a lot of people we can dust off this way but if you can't then we have to you know if it gets if it's more tenacious and potentially more dangerous we have to bring in the law and then all the way to the most severe case I've had the person had to move and change her identity okay and she had to literally we planned very very methodically and carefully that one day she was going to disappear off the face of the earth and she was not gonna be found okay and she had the resources and she had the family support everybody knew that this was a dynamite very dangerous situation and this was the right thing to do okay so that there so the the answer the question is it's a huge range of how it is that we we walk this walk depending upon what it looks like from the very beginning of crazy girlfriend crazy boyfriend rejection strategy to to more heavy-handed strategies all the way to save your life so those are those are the the long answer to a you know a problematic question yeah fascinating i mean i i've i've obviously dated girls that have been you know i felt over rewarded and been dumped and all that stuff but just never felt like i'd want to stalk them or anything like that i just couldn't understand that but you just described it very very perfectly now i kind of get it what they're trying to up the cost of basically ties right and it kind of it's an interesting game theory perspective yes strategy and the the village piece is really important because in my experience the guys that go the craziest are yes or are feeling that status loss in the whole village so it's the woman talking talking smack about them in the village and the the fact that they don't just lose her it's that that their reputation has been damaged you know more broadly than that that often will push them over into the really aggressive crazy realm not always sometimes it is this this over rewarded dynamic and they just snap in that direct but I think the the village component the male feels that status hit or anyone feels that status hit now their want to respond to violence is this simply a signal to other people like a warning hey don't do this otherwise this will happen to you what's well for one thing it's a it's a warning to the individual that if you don't do what it is that I want you to do I may kill you okay so there there's also the possibility that that they if they an interesting question in evolutionary psychology is why did these some guys sometimes actually kill these women which they do fit with fairly high regularity in these situations and we believe the answer is that that is meant to be a threat to the other women in the village don't rush me yeah yes right that she's making that are obviously super disagreeable low conscientious you know just incredibly shitty humans playing those strategies but hey you know Joseph Stalin walked the earth and so did Hitler and so yeah there are people out there that are effectively their equivalents and I appreciate it oh good doctor but this those things are oh sorry go ahead name just just the the fact that these guys if they are that disagreeable and they do have that instability and then they're probably flagging that to some degree over the course of the relationship which so you before you reject them you're going to know that you want to reject them and so to whatever degree possible you want to game out that rejection and the way that we're talking about and really make a plan and and script it out and figure out your contingency plan and what you're gonna say to the guy because it's not like you know he's the super sweetheart and he dumped him and then he flips and goes crazy like they you you will see some signs and some flags that's the reason that you're probably rejecting him so just another reason yes I appreciate you guys know Horace isn't answering this question because it's it's kind of tough to talk about the dark side of humanity from this perspective and it's it's nice to to have that addressed with evolutionary psychology we have to talk about it just so that I guess my overestimation in the worst case scenarios we always want to know what things are so it's very nice to hear that yes mm-hmm yeah there's a lot of you know other the the dark side of the bell curves out there walking walking among us I mean there are a lot of really low country and just really unstable really disagreeable people out there and you start mixing those qualities together and that's a bad that's another reason to do the 10 yeah and and to start out a little under rewarded in the 10 pay dates process as a female so you're not blinded by those willing to overlook those flags yes those rose colored over but I love him all right all right our next question I've recently gone through a divorce and it's been recommended for me to stay out of a new relationship for at least a year so I've been wandering in the Stone Age how long would a woman be single for after breakup couple days yeah how hot is she so yeah this is all right exactly ended and the notion of oh you should stay out for a year is just wives tale nonsense you go then well it's also ego trap nonsense a lot of the times like oh I have to work on myself you know I hate you hear this very often from women that oh I'm happier being single because I really want this time to work on myself and you know rediscover my own interests and all of this kind of stuff so sometimes that can be true to some degree but a lot of times that's just a form of the ego trap or a variation of the Enlightenment trap where they are intimidated by the competitive problem facing them because gotten out of a long-term relationship and they they're looking at the market and they're not sure how they're gonna fare out there and so mmm might be a little better to take some time and work on yourself and broadcast that to the village that you're not actually you're not looking yeah boy that's good I didn't catch that that's red really good great yeah very good all right all right what do we got all right the next question is is discussed related to conscientiousness and is it what drives the quote creepiness factor that's perceived from what I think is an unwanted several advanced discussed actually evolved as a motion from taste and so it evolved as a it's an adaptation to and it's probably emotional and gives rise to very recognizable emotional expression so that the village can be warned to not eat the same thing that I just took a bite out of okay yes if all of you listeners have never seen dr. Lyle dude do this physical mimicry of what the disgust reaction looks like you're really missing out because it's quite a it's an interpretive dance really so that's that's what that is and so you've got a contagion processes that are super useful for human smoke if we start talking about itching now you'll start to feel itchy that's or if ice you know if you see someone start a chain you'll start to feel the Qing that's because obviously it's a statistical improvement over your own sensory system to start to have effectively a mirror neuron driven experience that if they're getting bit I might be getting bit and I don't know it yet and so you're going to start to then sensitize yourself to possible things where parasites might be biting you so in the same vein disgust reaction when you see somebody have a disgust reaction you start to have a mmm a a mirror-neuron mimic in other words that's that's in the system so these are and you see it obviously really strongly around food these so if you even watching a movie and someone has a really discussed reaction you you start feeling that internal rejection of that food you know for them and so yeah that's where disgust reactions we believe started in evolution and then they're going to drive the there we actually will say things like the guy's just not my taste okay so even in our language rounding it around that same principle so that's that that's what's going on ie is Jen says you know you don't want a shins yeah now you're you're smelling and see looking at mean quality that you feel like is significantly inferior to your own and you're having a guard the eggs no way your reaction yeah yeah yes right very very useful information it can come in later to I mean it can you can be sort of you know you'll hear about the disgusts which sure this sort of like process that you you kind of are really into somebody and then suddenly they repulse you and so that's that's some piece of information that's just come in one one sensory direction or another and you probably don't know what it is consciously but you got some information that they have you know that their immune system is not suitable for your immune system or there's something something going on there that's just know where I think there's two places where I see this and they're at the heart of of you know sort of the human romantic equation and that is that if if either partner has a disgust reaction to the other ones character you're done yeah yeah you're done it's never coming back from that writer never this is why I got Minh talks about the four horsemen you know that disgust kind of contempt idea I don't think you can come back from that well wants to just a it should pretty much you're careful with everybody that's listening that doesn't mean that you might not have a disgust reaction about a partner in a given narrow context but it's but if it's a right right no this is a global yes a global sense that you just can't even stand to like yes look at the person or listen to them eat or you know like that whole kind of thing where you just like you find yourself just yeah you know developing hives and they're present oh that'll happen to people and that's I don't think you can come back from that no matter how much you learn to communicate and you work on your relationship and you drag them to therapy oh like it's not gonna fix that fundamental whatever is going on there and because it might be partly physical it might be that they just absolutely don't qualify on some characterological dimension but whatever it is yeah even if they wear the right crystals and they charge them under the full moon and they in them and you know the Scorpio moon in particular and they had it all all sorted out and it was blessed by a shaman and everything yeah I can't I I remember reading years ago hmm male decided to put put together two different tinder accounts one was some really hot you know good-looking athlete and the other one was just a normal you know software engineer type Tainan personality and not not that software engineers can't be I'm detecting a torches at your door shutting off your [Laughter] to say the same opening lines to all the females that he matches with and with super hot guy he can say the most horrible things that he can possibly come up with yes and the women are just laughing and joking and saying oh yeah no worries but can't we at least get coffee first or something whereas with the whore type of personality they're saying he's getting reported by tender for sexual harassment and he's creepy and and ridiculous and so so what weird your space is saying is they don't like your jeans and so therefore they just feel that they don't like that it's it's a holistic it's a holistic assessment of that individual so you're you're willing to kind of let the hotness compensate for the disgust reaction that you would have with with the disgusting thing that they're saying in some cases not universally but certainly in some cases good you're taking that person as as a genetic impressionistic experience you're not just looking at a photo in designing you're deciding on many levels smell that it just the proximity just there's actually a really and particular nicely done official instructional video on this that was done by Saturday Night Live the and it turns out it's instructional video on sexual harassment yes yes it's taught Tom Brady and Mike this is really good I'm so everybody hasn't seen it it's very clear right right the really important thing is number one very rigorous social psychology and never to be handsome then number three don't be on a truck all right we got let's take one more the one right below the makeup question yes this is the ones about toxic masculinity so I thought yes oh good dr. John Hawk would be would be would have a good time okay dear doctor Hawk and doctor mile notice how I got the order you've got it right now you see Linna tea is for men and feminism is for women men use masculine qualities to climb the dominance hierarchy to get status better females or shot at promiscuity whilst femme feminism means equal opportunity for females females could simply pair bond with a provisioning male or they can enter the workforce and climb the dominance hierarchy as well if they so choose and obviously they should be free and encouraged to do so being free of interference lately however I've seen a lot of feminists openly encourage female promiscuity females getting quotas in the workforce while Simoes tenth whilst simultaneously suggesting we need to rid our boys of toxic masculinity ending the patriarchy and encouraging fat acceptance movements and lower beauty standards is it reasonable to suggest that modern third wave feminism is now about confusing males about the dominance hierarchy and their own sexual selection criteria so as to turn them into being beta males it's got so much swirling stuff in there but this is just right at Jones alley she lived it she lived in the Ivy League i I did I did in fact my whole well I lived in the Ivy League and my whole journey toward evolutionary psychology had to come come by way of my hole smash the patriarchy stage you know so you have to it you have to have to go through this smash the patriarchy stage and then come to terms with the sort of inherent misogynistic flavor of evolutionary psychology and somehow reconcile that with your your feminism so it's a whole process that's I'm still in the grips of it they this I my general take on that I hear a lot of this kind of thing like oh is it you know is feminism now about doing this and confusing hierarchies and turning men into beta males there's this is conspiracy thinking that's giving way too much collective credit to any any particular this is all being run on particular cost-benefit analyses these are individuals who are running specific CDs about their competitive problems and so if you're if you're watching this happen with a lot of web at once it seems like it's a big social movement and maybe the the cost of participating and that social movement has been lowered because more people are doing it but really what's going on is that there's a there is a Seabee at the individual level about being intimidated by competitive problems and and embracing these kinds of cover stories of toxic masculinity and the patriarchy and fat acceptance and all this kind of stuff to to be a smokescreen to protect oneself from those competitive problems that's that's the general take on that I mean there's a lot going on in that question so but I think to ascribe any of it to some sort of orchestrated conspiracy theory coming coming out of the far left or out of academia or anything like that it lets you give a sense to me actually when I I came of age in the 1970s so that's what how long ago is that long time 45 years 45 years ago and so 40 years certainly culture culture nudges along towards you know things that are usually generally more sensible some important it's an important incremental changes take place in in human thinking and so let's face it if we were to see advertising and watch the shows of 1960 it's pretty it's pretty bad yeah oh yeah the toxic masculinity runs rampant I mean it's very you know these kids today yes they're up in arms about you know shows during the 90s so there's there's a big movement to you know we need to this cancel culture on things we need to cancel friends we need to cancel Seinfeld like these these shows these pivotal shows even that recently were too representative of toxic masculinity and patriarchal thinking and gendered heteronormativity and all of these things that are right I mean it's not even that point II have to go back it's there the truth is from from my eyeball judgment you know now 45 years post my own you know highschool coming-of-age process I don't see much much change in human nature at all no it's essentially by nineteen there you know by where I was in middle-class America in the mid 1970s we had pretty well absorbed feminism in other words it's like god the girls are smart you know they they can they can major in what they want and they can beat us at math and it's like hey it is what it is the and what you and we kind of you know it was it was kind of a lot of people a lot of young women started going to law school and it was no longer shocking at all and so there was a process by which that we by which this you know this happened for many and sorted reasons that we could trace however by that by you know by the time I'm there 76 trying to get a date hey if you're a guy you won't have a nice car you want to have some money you want to be athletic and you want to be handsome and dance and guess what nothing has changed yes still the same exact situation this is the human condition but now we have all we have extra narratives that have been imported from post-modernism and from far-left and wherever else yes coming from that plug conveniently into competitive avoidance so there's like that for anybody who is looking at that problem this like in you know this problem of human nature as long as there have been humans of finding the best meat you qualify for and everything else then they're they're searching around for the most socially acceptable expedient excuses to not participate fully in that competition and now we have a wider repertoire of those excuses and this is this is basically what all of this is it doesn't mean that reality has changed doesn't mean that there's some big orchestrated conspiracy it just means that individuals executing specific individual CDs it used to it simply Betty used to be you know guys just going to push smart women like that that was the line I heard in 1980 well they isn't that true that's totally that that's the my heard that it was about 1979 and of course I'm thinking really there's a girl across the room smoking me in science and guess what yeah I did her in a heartbeat but I'm intimidated so yeah I appreciate that bridge is fine so yeah but this is exactly competitive avoidance and and intimidation by this and smoke screening and status defense yeah this is the these are the extraordinary sensitivities and knowledge that Gen Hawk brings to to my attention into our discussions and esteemed dynamics and I really look forward to hearing more of your thinking Gen about all these things
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