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Episode 184: Male Female Dynamics with Dr Lisle and Dr Jen Howk
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today we have a special treat for our listeners and that special treat is we are welcoming dr. Jenn Hawk to the show we're going to interview her and ask her some questions today dr. Lau would you like to say something Harvard my alma mater there's the old joke is that when you graduate from Harvard the hardest thing to do is that first minute in a conversation when you're trying to get it into the conversation that's that's the that's the hardest stretch you got for the rest of your life so I figured I'd spare you this dress Jen I really have you I struggle mightily with this problem dr. jennifer hawk is a is a brilliant political science PhD from Harvard University and she's my colleague we work at True North health together and it's it's been an enormous ly enjoyable and fabulous ride this last how long have you been with us now about a year and a half just over a year it was last May of last year so yeah yeah so this is this has been an extraordinary ride for me just never never had a colleague that brought so much to the table to help me increase my clarity on my own thinking and really shed a lot of light in in the corners of human psychology so obviously political science one of those things that are that are the two words that go together I brought oxymoron hahaha that is political scientists are really just bad economists so if they had to come up with a different name to call themselves sound fancy but yes for scientists and only the very loose is sense of the term anyway actually Harvard and Harvard calls it government so technically my PhD is in government it's not influence oh god and very empty so but any rate the whole point is is that it's social science and so we actually discovered over the last couple years that we shared a lot of common information and common understanding of what our backgrounds were but there was a lot of places where they diverged and where they diverged I think I think we found it to be you know entertaining where our own fields were incredibly ignorant of the other and also fascinating where we learned and so I think you'd probably agree with that Jen oh definitely yeah there's it's it's I think you said at some point we're sort of 13 degrees off of each other and I see the world and the different backgrounds that we bring to any particular puzzle so it can be very interesting and sometimes very vexing that'll come up soon enough so so anyway this we're gonna have great fun then I'm sure the listeners will enjoy having some some estrogen as part of the discussions around here so anyway let's say it's truly an honor to be here on the mansplain or Power Hour this we may have to we have to look at our contract when there again three soon we have to rethink this thing already all right so let's uh let's roll Nathan let's take some questions and see what comes out all right fantastic well looking forward to it today's topic is about male-female dynamic okay darts dating there another thing so right on time hmm all right dear dr. Lyle and dr. Jen Hawk I'm curious how our esteem meter responds when we have someone sending us rejection signals or trying to reduce our status because they are envious or intimidated by our status trying to figure out how not to let those friendships or new acquaintances not impact my esteem ATAR when I likely can understand it's coming from a place of their own insecurity and competitiveness I wish my esteem was mostly impacted by close relationships but I feel I feel sad when meeting a new group of women and feeling as though I don't fit in because I may be more competitive than they are how do I not let it affect me well this is a this is a great question for Jen because I think that she's obviously been in that situation or has seen it and at closer range then then I would have but yeah Jen just give us some thoughts on that and where do you go with that yeah I might the first thing that comes to mind is that the esteem mater is never broken and you can't you can't rewrite how you're interpreting the situation in other words if the cost benefit is is there and you're getting feedback from the village that is relevant to your competitive experience that feedback is is probably valid to one degree or another whether those people are acquaintances or whether they're motivated by jealousy or whether they're close friends or not so if you are if you if you have self-talk it doesn't really matter who it's coming from it's still giving you very valuable information about your competitive status so that's just my my first take on it I am trying to understand a little bit with the the piece of your not fitting in because you're more competitive than they are I would be I would bring a little skepticism to that question I don't know what dr. Lisle would say about that that I don't think you're going to feel bad about that situation necessarily because you were bringing a more you're bringing a stronger competition to the game yeah I think the I'm not exactly sure where the bad feelings come possibly because that maybe they're feeling rejected and being pushed out of the coalition a little bit or there are the rejection signals coming from the friends are they coming from potential mates in this question there I think what they're getting is this is what I think that they're describing I think they're describing that that they're getting essentially frustrations / rejection signals from these friends mm-hmm and I think that the bad feelings are probably a little bit possibly a little bit hard to pin down where the source is so some of it could come from the fact that you know that the friends are envious and so you got some if you have some degree of empathy for their situation possibly also the bad feelings can be coming from feeling rejected they're batted that is also the case so there could be sort of a mishmash of negative feelings that would be coming from ie a strain in the girl you know the girl the girl could yeah yeah and so it let's just let's hypothesize that you've got a situation because this doesn't sound it sounds like somebody's talking about like a new group and there's a new group of people and there's some new women and they're picking up these signals what what would you what would you be sort of telling them or or explaining to them about how to manage this yeah so I think that women are very very dependent on each other for signals about in in the mating arena who is most valuable so women are gonna be tuned into the feedback from other women about how competitive they are with regard to the same pool of men so if we're dealing with new friends there's a process of initial calibration that's going on where they're sort of interacting with new people they're trying everyone's trying to figure out how they fit in any given hierarchy but women are playing kind of a dual game in in a certain way because they're obviously trying to remain as competitive as they can in the mating arena but they're trying to preserve these female friendships which are fraught with peril when you're all kind of competing for the same men so I think this is a fairly fairly normal situation that women are going to find themselves in and it's going to be subject to more volatility when the relationships are new and you don't there's not a lot of basis for the friendship already and people are trying to plug themself into that into that village hierarchy with not a whole lot of information bitches just like I said [Laughter] yeah that's the toxic masculinity alarm [Laughter] the right to play that alarm any time it happens no I think that that makes a lot of sense and that the these relationships have dual motivations and and therefore gets tricky and if you if you're a sensitive kind of a person if you're recently agreeable and you're walking into a situation where you're starting to pick up signals that they feel threatened you know this is it's uncomfortable and and so let's face it sometimes you're not gonna fit right and it's great it's a trade-off I mean which which which competitive arena is more important like you sometimes there's just inherent conflicts of interest here and if you want to be maximally competitive finding the best possible mate you can find maybe you're the bitch among some new acquaintances and that's just the way that it is and also true that this is to some degree there's I don't know that anybody has data on this but I wouldn't be surprised if this were true and that is that I mean to some degree there's going to be multiple reasons why this would be true but I think that you're gonna have God actually I remember reading in bus and bus meandering some thought around this around this issue I believe and that is certainly highly attractive women are gonna tend to have highly attractive women friends to the extent that they've got him except that if if a girl is tough enough it's stable enough psychologically that that she might be 20 percentile you know less than her much more attractive friend and grit her teeth and basically play wing person so that she can gather the droppings of the one that the friend doesn't take [Music] syndrome it's real what's that yeah yeah yeah and but I wouldn't say for example ugly wood makes sense no no right now this is a relative right standing kind of situation I will bet you that it's not I'll bet you there's if somebody had the evidence I'll bet you that essentially we're gonna find some stress when the Delta B between two women for example or in a crowd of four or five of them becomes too great so nine and seven is fine okay and yet nine to five is going to be a problem because the the sevens gain value potentially from hanging with the nines because the nines are gonna draw in highly attractive males and then the males may have to get bait-and-switch to the seven but it's playing casual mating in the scenario anyway most likely if you're out at a bar whatever yes almost doesn't matter because the more attractive men are happy to scale down for the night so this is all getting really interesting so anyway let's move on but that's a that's an interesting question and and we've now introduced the nimble mind of Gen Hawk to our audience which is just fabulous all right let's roll on Nathan alright so if women marry for genes and resources but men only for genes what about all of the men in history that one reads about with few resources who married heiresses exam etc I think we can safely assume chippies on the side but it's pretty clear when careers only take off after a well-connected or wealthy marriage that they did marry at least in part for those resources I get it that resources are to allow them more casual mating but they still were attracted at least in part to the female mate for those resources what do you think of course they were yeah I think yeah I think my go ahead take their first pass Jen and then all all all fill in what I what I anything else go ahead yeah I mean of course of course it this is a situational condition if the if the female has more resources the the evaluation of the so-called pair-bond in the city which is a quasi para bond if you've got all kinds of trippy's on the side anyway this this sounds like the way this question is worded strikes me is a very strategic alliance between between a man and woman Oh a man who might be under rewarded on looks that you know is making up for it in other ways and this is going to be common throughout history in various very specific situations you're not going to see it as much today because men have more more choice in that way and women have more access to resources so but I say that the evaluation of any mating relationship is not just being conducted on the level of appearance there's obviously other things that are going into that equation and you're going to see situations where woman's wealth in eros or you know especially if she's can be bamboozled out of it in one way or another there's there's some fine cinema along these lines gaslight among them that it's obviously it's going to it's going to present itself as a pretty good deal to the right kind of disagreeable predatory male that didn't take her long to get that that description in there less meandering than dr. Lyles all right well when I look at this question I want to like draw us back to to understand that that again with what Jen's certainly referring to is that the CBE can be an odd-looking Seabee in history but wouldn't have been an odd-looking Seabee in prehistory so if we go back and try to understand female behavior in general before there was wealth then it all makes perfect sense and the women didn't have any wealth so the men weren't making these trades the now the fact that some disagreeable predatory lazy etc or otherwise you know you could see this was a this was a subplot of Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen where where there was a pair that was clearly in love and I forget their names but and I remember reading it thinking oh this is going to be another essentially Pride and Prejudice great love story and then it falls part and I was a little bit I remember reading this you know is this high school kid and feeling crestfallen and really kind of upset about it and the reason was is that prejudice was this great heroic love story and so I was expecting something similar in the next book and instead I find really naturalistic literature instead of romantic heroic literature it's naturalistic literature where the guy who they clearly had great chemistry but he you know loves his you know likes his dogs and has some financial problems perhaps and so he marries some stylishly dressed heiress and dumps dumps the the heroine who was vastly more interesting and that he was clearly that he was clearly smitten with and that kind of made me a little sick as a fifteen-year-old kid and and so you know there are circumstances throughout history up until the present day where some male is willing to sell out or needs to or just you know for whatever for whatever constellation of reasons he does make a strategic choice there rather than going with essentially stone-age instincts and so of course that can happen and it's lousy I mean I've seen it happen I've seen it right in front of me and and it's kind of in the modern world I kind of shake my head and some serious disgust and I also I also look at the female like what the hell are you doing like why want your worst the where's the narcissism in here yeah where is this that you think you rate for this and you clearly doesn't yeah most of the time she's just chugging along believing that she rates that way you know is it's that the narcissism part of that equation is not to be denied because women that are getting themselves in this situation are not feeling the stress of being under rewarded to a significant degree in there that requires a fair amount of narcissism in the system to sustain but I think I think the reason that you see this is kind of a recurring theme in literature in movies like a lot of dramatic tension turns on these kinds of deals like I'm thinking I just recently watched match-point again yeah few months ago which is you know also like draw it's basically the story of crime and punishment these are like classic classic literary themes and I think it's because they're this is an inherent bad deal it's a bad trade there's there's tension and conflict just built into this whole arrangement because everybody knows that it's rotten to the core but it's it's expedient and so it's it's this large cinematic question of how do you reconcile these two things and usually you know spoiler it doesn't turn out too well yeah so these these relationships don't usually end up happily ever after unless they you know there are particular circumstances that can contribute to that which I'm sure has happened but well get started sure yeah very good yeah well I've got a question here because the the beginning I might just be being a little little nitpicky but the question starts out if wind Amit women marry for genes and resources from what I understand is women to marry for genes also but just they count that they count resources as part of the genetic picture more so than men do yes probably that's true but let what were I would say that but really what women are doing when they're what we're interested in here and what we're actually talking about there's two different discussions here one of them is what people will do and the other the discussion is what is human romance and its ultimate fulfillment two entirely different questions okay so people will do all kinds of wacky lazy shortcut deceptive shit okay so that doesn't surprise anybody okay so I'm not yeah I'm not too interested in that I'm more interested in you know what are the contours and the and the sort of reaction ranges to how things can work as people as people you know where do where do romance where does it really come together and under what conditions and so the a major condition that's inside the female brain this is so much how much money does a guy have but rather what is his potential right and so in its its what is his total resource actually there's a name for it we call it resource holding potential can he take the territory will he get food will he protect me will it protect our kid in other words so it's essentially we're kind of sizing him up as a female you're sizing him up on what would this guy be like on a desert island okay is really kind of the what's really firing the romantic chips inside of a female brain the rest of it is highly strategic and doesn't it may tell us a great deal about why females do what they do in the modern environment but it's not telling us about their their romantic fulfillment I think those are two different things so dr. hawk would you say you're you're very sophisticated venture capitalist is that basically you're walking the line of the toxic the true toxic masculinity alarm would be this one all right woman and a woman in the modern environment just has to walk around with these kind of alarms at all times because you just never know what you're gonna like yeah consider that some free dating advice goes over really well in attending well perfect timing because our next question doctor hawk dr. Lyle is about bad boys now wait a second so right away we find dr. Ochs coming first already all right dear dr. Lyle and dr. Hawks some women must seem to want to fix bad boys is this just their hope that he will pair bond with them and is this just a fantasy yeah yeah yeah I don't even know where to start and so yes it's just it's just a fantasy first of all you can't you can't change anybody so we know dr. Lyle has addressed this at great length on former partners in terms of how intractable and genetically determined personality is so you've got you've got a bad boy he's a bad boy he's just gonna be a bad boy he was born that way he was this is who this person is you know women have a lot of sort of traditional wisdom about this but in the in the other sense you know if he's a bad boy and you're trying to fix him that's probably telling you that you're over rewarded - I mean if you're if you're in this dynamic and you're you feel like it's a it's a fixer-upper and you can't keep track of him and he's he's cheating on you and he's not coming home to you at night like this is just somebody who you're not qualifying for one way or another so you can't generally fix that dynamic you can't fix their personality you can't hope that somebody that you've ensnared with a casual mating strategy is suddenly going to want to pair bond with you because they discover what a wonderful person you are inside like none of this works cut your losses early and often and move on to the next one yeah go find yourself a Horace Horace yeah step away from the Jimmy's I would also add the following and that is that you're you're battling a hypothesized instinct inside the female mind yes yes yeah you forget about this when it shows how well-hidden it is I don't forget it I suppress it yeah so I believe and this I didn't make this up but I can't point to the page and David buses work or elsewhere who wherever this came to my attention but it makes complete sense from an evolutionary point of view that the and actually obviously the the evidence there's actually quite a lot of evidence that points towards this so the fact that females prefer rounder faced males when they are not fertile and then as they reach not yeah and then as they reach their fertility peak during a month they the faces get that they prefer get square and square and more and more testosterone eyes okay so matter batterbatter boys oops that's my phone going off the so the the fact that this is true that this is in fact how the female sexual psychology or aesthetic you know obviously attraction psychology is built that tells us something very interesting and that is that it would make sense obviously this was a guidance our guidance systems for decision-making and those our decision-making systems or preferences were optimal for stone-age conditions that's why they were the instincts that we have and so if a female is more attracted to and interestingly enough more attracted to wanting to be near and quote loving towards a round-faced female or one face male but not sexual okay and then she becomes increasingly sexually alive and excited towards when she's at her peak fertility point and the the mating search image that she has in her head is a more masculinized male then that would make that would tell us we're looking back through these are shadows of Forgotten ancestors this is telling us the evolutionary design and the behavior that took place and was successful in our species history so the female basically has a strong predilection to getting resources out of the nice guy through the two thirds of the month when she's not fertile and then screwing the the bad boy and then who is not going to be around and so that this is so this now tells us that the female mind is is a is a house divided and so this is what fixing a bad boy is is you you he is your you actually are attracted to people who are going to cheat on you and are going to sleep around because the very fact is is that those are highly successful genes that are getting a harvesting a lot of female DNA with very little cost so if you man so romantic harvesting females yeah they're like the matrix up in here well it just comes out that way sorry yeah yeah so anyway the point is is that so the the therefore what you have is probably essentially a strong instinct that it's inherently attracted to people who are not paraben material that buys by psychology and so this is the fixing of the bad boy the fixed thing the bad boy is obviously a pipe dream that we can get the fantastically sexually successful DNA into my son that is going to be a little just heartbreak or Casanova in the next generation and leave me 250 grandchildren that we're gonna have that but at the same time somehow we're gonna we're going to maneuver this guy this particular Casanova into your nest and he's going to provide and be faithful well this is obviously never got ever gonna happen and so so obviously this is a female female is designed to take those kinds of risks and and to keep keep in mind average females obviously not built for such a stark contrast what she I want you to imagine that one stop short of the most masculine male that she finds the most attractive it's actually the guy who's a little bit less masculine and a little bit nicer okay well now the probability just went up by a few percent that he will stick around so you start to see that the real female psychology is is not just working this contrast effect between the two males but is looking for a contrast of two different sides to the male personality within the same male yeah good luck with that exactly but that is what fixing a bad boy is okay so that's that's sort of the long answer complete with some toxic masculinity in there about how the toxic masculinity veiled by science is okay you know personal matter yeah well this is this is also I mean that scenario the way that plays out that you you've got the nice little pair of Bhandar at home and then you're going and cheating on him and getting knocked up by the bad boy but the pair Bunder is the sucker who's raising the kid before you raising him for the bad guy I mean I think this is why anecdotally women have the experience that men are much more sensitive to being cheated on the Neman are because women women will come down to the you know well they're not happy about it but as long as he's coming home to me that's the that's what you'll hear again and again whereas men men first time you cheat on them very often are out the door there and there's no second chance because of this this you know this ancestral instinct that oh that's not mine yes yeah you're you're putting my eggs at risk there right absolutely absolutely true and so this this contributes to the tolerance for the bad boy you know behavior is exactly there's a question absolutely yeah yeah very good I've got a question about this so so if a female understands her own psychology she of course can try to beat her genes and like you said suppress this suppress this emotion if a potential Horace if a potential Horace understand female psychology what is his incentive to try to date women if if he he'd will never quite know if she's doing the two-thirds for him and then one-third she's kind of looking looking at the other side oh well like being horse myself I can answer this question thank God we have Horace in the house the the truth is is that the this is why I mean this is a lot about what sort of this pair bonding experience is and the the sensitivity to all the esteem signals that go on in a romance so even if you're Horace that doesn't mean you don't qualify it just means that you're your woman maybe periodically very interested in other people but that doesn't mean that she's going to take action on that and it also doesn't mean that if she does take action on it that she's gonna wind up pregnant so in other words these are probability issues so if you're Horace you are trying to get into a relationship with someone that you find sufficiently attractive that you feel like it's worth it for you to put all your eggs in that basket and to to commit okay and remember Horace Ness versus Jim eNOS is is a is a right let's say relative experience inside the male brain depending upon the the female that's in front of him so a round-faced Horace without any game at all the point is is that if it turns out that he gets into a situation where the female that he feels is beneath him suddenly he's got a little Casanova chick comes alive [Laughter] these are context dependent you know circuits so this works yeah I close this out oh I see you you decide when we're done talking about male/female they're good ladies like if you have anything else that occurs me of course go ahead no well we can move on it's alright that's it's best not to limit yes alright on we go too much all right dear dr. Lyle and dr. Huck I am a 46 year old woman and have been out of the dating scene for 20 years so the question is how do I calibrate my chances for dating different types of men how desirable of a man do I qualify for are there ways of figuring this out without having to do a lot of dating [Laughter] well my first pass that that question is that you you can't really figure it out without doing a lot of dating you you can you can in principle sort of look you can do some you know some sleuthing with your female friends and you can try to sort of look at women that would be competitive with you and you can look at who they qualify for and you can plug it all into your little computer and make some calculations and make some estimates but fundamentally you don't really know until you actually go out there and confront the competitive reality in front of you and this doesn't have to be a big deal this is you know very very low cost process as far as all of the apps now so you can go gather a lot of data in a short period of time via tinder match or any of the online sites that are gonna get and give you some very quick feedback and then you're gonna you're gonna be able to figure it out pretty quickly I would caution women against and someone who's writing this question into the show might already be aware of this but that you the the feedback you're getting from men at a bar if you're offering up casual mating strategy is not accurate calibration feedback for who you would qualify for for a para bond so the the it's not you're not fishing for the same standard of mate if you're offering casual mating strategy to quickly this is what 10 pay dates is all about and the only way to truly find out what kind of parable and you would qualify for is to go get some data in real life and play 10 pay dates or more that would be my take on that yeah very good the great Karnak will now speak I said your name first I give you all kinds of status the great dr. Lowe was so status deficient the great Karnak is getting a sense from the the writer of this city a sense that I now have a message for her here it comes oh here comes you're going to be disappointed it's exactly what I saw has to be true I believe the moon isn't it said such as life yeah you're gone lower your expectations you're going to be probably probably what's gonna happen and also and probably the as we talked about many times here that the the solution to the disappointment now that's who knows we have no idea I mean what this person's personal experience will be and how their dilt however it's likely that they're going to be disappointed and that it's likely that the ultimate solution is going to be giving people that you're not that wild about at first meeting repeat exposures to see if you you're you shift it's actually the most important piece of advice that women need to really understand is in all women have had you know you go right ahead dr. Lyle I say that all right but I think all women have had this experience you know a few times in their life where they've they've not you know not been interested in someone and then they get to know that person in their character and their personality and their humor and everything else and suddenly it's it's like a little bell goes off above their head did they add like oh I never thought about them that way before and so is the repeat exposure effect and most women have some experience with it and the idea is that if you're if you're putting yourself out there and you're calibrating if you're attracted right out of the gate if you're super attracted right out of the gate to someone you met on tinder it's almost a certainty that you do not qualify for that person for a para bond because you are over rewarded almost almost always not necessarily but it should be it should raise a little flag in your dating mind that that's probably the situation and though they are probably going to be playing casual mating strategy on you and they might be very deceptive about it so this is why we need to be playing ten paid dates and everything else but the repeat exposure effect is is a real effect it's something that men are not experiencing in the same way that women are experiencing it but women really can if they stick it out and they give this guy a few chances even when they really don't think that they'd be interested obviously they're their reasons to toss them out of the toss him out back back into the water early on and not give him more chances if the guy can't put a sentence together in the email that he sends you on tinder or if he's you know really is completely obnoxious on the first date you don't need to grit your teeth and you know there are a few more repeat exposures just to find out but if you any part of you thinks you know there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them you just don't find them that tremendously attractive give yourself the gift of a few more dates with that person and see if repeat exposure starts to take root in your little mind you've mentioned a couple times on tinder and whereas dr. Lyle on our show has mentioned a lot about match.com do what tinder we've got match.com any others that you'd recommend to our listeners I wouldn't recommend any of them in particular yeah I mean it depends on what your goals are obviously I mean tinder and I I think your initial cut with these things should be how much investment is the male making to even be on that site so at least on match.com he has to pay a fee to be there so there's some sort of investment happening which is indicating that he's at least somewhat above the fray as far as a potential pair of bonds but if you don't care about that and you're just in a casual mating game then have added on tinder it's it's a free-for-all as are all the other little swipe apps and all the the apps that have copied that model but if you're really serious about it you can also look into their actual there's been a resurgence of real live matchmakers lately that will you know try to pair you up with somebody that they find very suitable and that's an even higher threshold of male investment to even be there and to go out on the first date so all of these things are it just really depends on what you're looking for what your goals are how old you are what you want it's all very specific to baby in funda just like Geoffrey Miller did a study on the bumper stickers and different personalities yes if someone could do a personality for the different dating sites as well because I think yeah I think tinder might be the lower conscientious fruit and you know cake OkCupid is Sanford yeah okay stupid you know I mean poor OkCupid OkCupid had a real heyday back when it was run by a bunch of nerds from MIT where it was there was some really interesting quizzes and the match data meant something but yeah now it's just it's just copied tinder and it's on the same model so these these first impression apps where there's no such thing as repeat exposure and women are playing it wrong because they are there only swiping whichever way yes is this is where this is where I betray the fact that I'm actually not on tinder got left tinder long ago but they are they're only they're only voting YES on men that they immediately find quite attractive and those men have you know the absolute pick of the litter so it's it's unlikely that they're going to qualify for any of them whereas the men are most likely swiping yes on everybody so then they can exercise a little bit of discretion once they actually have a match if if any discretion at all so that's that's the correct way for firm mail to be playing yes those kind of yeah no it's all very gay theoretical and so women you know you know if if they're really gonna be serious about trying to find a pair bond on tinder go ahead and swipe yes on everybody just like the men are swiping yes on everybody and wait to see after you match how he actually approaches you how he initiates the conversation go go out on a date and then start playing ten pay dates and see what happens but obviously this is requires a high threshold of dating pain for any woman that would be playing this game so it's gonna again depend on her goals and where she's at in life oh good all right question for for both of the doctors here I'm so sad to hear I'm so sad to hear that a woman only gets to mate with the guy that is sir that is her age peer or older I've been so happy to slowly find and adopt the whole food plant-based lifestyle it's been a challenging journey at times but one change at a time hmm I have lost a bunch of unneeded weight and reversed many health conditions I look and feel better now in my 50s than I did in my 30s however sadly my husband is just not interested or should I say he is highly resistant I estimate his personality to be less than 50th percent offer of OK estimate his personality to be less than 50th percentile for openness conscientiousness and extraversion and yes I would say he's a bit disagreeable but I found that actually very useful I'm highly agreeable and having a disagreeable mate has protected me many times however I anticipate that I might outlive him by 20 to 40 years I I need a disagreeable mate to feel protected in the world but disagreeable men don't want to change their eating and live a long time with me argh I would estimate myself to be open conscientious introverted and agreeable my introversion makes mate seeking very challenging if I outlive my husband am I just going to have to be lonely I told him he should make a plan for my next mate so that I don't have to after he dies however if I get nice old there will not be any men older than me laugh won't some young disagreeable mail protectors show up for me but book an hour with dr. Jenn Hawk by this question the message in the crystal ball for this one is that yeah you're not happy with your husband either way like this is not a this is not a happy marriage I can't quite tell all of the dynamics that are happening here but you're not gonna outlive him by twenty to forty years dr. Lisle can can give you quite the take down on the difference between living a perfectly adherent whole food plant-based lifestyle and versus having a Philly cheesesteak gripped in each of your sweaty hands with a bottle of gin between your legs and the difference is only gonna buy you a couple of years on average so this is not we're not talking about decades of difference of lifespan here so that seems to me to be a smokescreen for the the real core issue that this this this woman's experiencing which is that her mate who she's not describing in particularly glowing terms in any any way I mean what what does she say she's less than 50th percentile for conscientiousness and openness and and he's also disagreeable like this does not sound like a pleasant mate and she doesn't sound very happy with him so I would you know we'd have to talk to her and find out like what's really going on but I think she's rather than spinning around her disagreeable protector she needs to deal with the relationship that's in front of her and figuring out a way to manage that I think she's extremely reasonable that her husband should be figuring out how making a plan mate I mean like that you're right you're right I'm sorry I take it all back here you're right dr. Lai no sure entirely reasonable image you know the VIN mm-hmm he's too old he's he's too old yeah I heard her new her young protector yeah even Brad Pitt's too old he's in his 50s so ya know we we need one of these young Hollywood types oh yeah yeah Charlie Fair entirely reasonable there we go we fix it we fix the situation go tell your husband we said okay all right do we have time for another one all right how we doing oh yeah we yeah we've got oh well we can end here and then we can we can get some more on the other end very good all right well doctor Hawk it's been a pleasure to have oh my goodness oh it was it was a pleasure it was great fabulous it's wonderful to have you on for the first time here and we are looking forward to having you back many many more times
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