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Episode 18: Which men and women hook up the most
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we have our guest on with us dr. Doug Lyall he's been an evolutionary psychologist for about 13 years 30 years now what's new with you dr. Lisle well don't say 30 years that makes me seem very old it's actually 26 so you get the best right good thanks Evan Lee both pleasure pleasure to have you with us again today we actually are going to be discussing modern dating and we've kind of had this theme for the show for the last few weeks everything from casual dating also known as hooking up in modern day terms or as you've described it it's a casual mating strategy anything then also we're going to be talking about some long-term serious dating which scientists also call pair bonding strategy now last week we listened to you talk with caller Nigel about his views on monogamous dating and polyamorous dating and you made the distinction between casual mating strategy for for certain relationships and pair bonding strategy for other relationships so take us through that again yes causal mating is is actually it's actually the the general strategy in nature for most species and so that's going to be typical of most birds and mammals it is that there is not a long term process of males investing in females and their lives and their offspring and so in humans this comes down to you know like little whirlwind romances are short-term mating that relationships that might last you know one night or you know a couple a few weeks this is uh this is casual mating where the man really has no no likelihood of and has no expectation of sticking around and being with the female long term the the purpose of this type of relationship is for the male to obviously get just to keep clear the the underlying evolutionary motivation for things may be quite different than the conscious motivation of the individual that's doing it the purpose of this behaviors pattern is for males to spill their seed far and wide to essentially increase the statistical likelihood that their genes will get into the next generation now the individual that's actually doing this today may consciously block that process through birth control but what is motivating the behavior is the proliferation of genes so the women are willing to engage in casual mending strategy usually well actually usually they are being duped into these relationships by males who are pretending to play long term strategies and so this is a timeless game of human nature where the males it is in the male's best interest to to talk females into short-term mating by pretending like they're going to be doing long-term mating and then the hopeful female is hoping that that she's going to get a long-term relationship out of this the sometimes the females are aware that they are not going to get long-term relationship out of this but they are nevertheless motivated to mate with the male because their assessment mechanisms their innate assessment mechanisms have suggested to them that the male is actually a superior gene quality to themselves and so this is the engine of casual mating strategies so casual mating strategy has fundamentally two causes one of which if you are asked a female she would just say well I'm just having fun but the whole point of what causes anything to be exciting is to have genetic advantages and so the female seems to quote be having fun because she is mating with a male that is apparently according to her estimation it is her genetic superior and so that that's what makes get exciting and that's what makes her willing to engage in short-term mating strategies she could also being being duped by a male who is not so fancy but is but is making very hard signals that he's actually in this for the long term and in that case it may be a short terminal relationship with a heartbreak of course the the most convincing strategy for the male standpoint is to be genetically superior to the female and also pretend that you are going to be playing long-term strategy and so in this case the female is weak in the knees and all excited and half of the way in love and then the male exploits her at least from the standpoint of evolutionary gamesmanship he is able to get to her reproductive Treasury ie have sex with her with a minimum of investment and that he moves on so that that is the story of casual mating and the other side of the equation is long-term what we're going to call pair bond or true love strategy which is also a major strategy of this species where the male is actually playing fair and he is being honest and he is actually pursuing honest courtship where he fully intends to to be in the relationship long term that's what we call a true love strategy so those are two very very different strategies that are on the table in life for humans and of course there are situations where it looks like something is halfway in between those two strategies but more or less it's one of the two and during your your call with Nigel Nigel's call with you you mentioned that some people are more pair-bond dominant than others is that a genetic thing or is this an age thing or is you know what's all of what's there this is genetic so there's individual differences in males as to how how much vasopressin they have and this is a chemical that's associated with whether or not the male is is going to be a predominantly pair-bond sort of a guy or he's going to be more of a casual mating guy now the the truth of the matter is is that any probably any male or not any male but just about any male normal human heterosexual male has the capacity to be very interested in casual mating strategy the and most males are pretty interested in casual mating strategy effectively they are designed to be interested in casual mating strategy however they're going to differ in how motivated they are to pursue casual mating strategy from the standpoint of both opportunity you notice their circumstances as well as their gyms and so some males are just much more what we're going to call para bond dominant or much more interested in love and romance and some males are much more interested in casual mating and a large percentage of that difference in psychology has to do with genetic variation very interesting now so we have a question from one of the listeners who was listening last week and this is from time Sophie and they emailed me and of course if any listeners have any questions for dr. Lila for the show feel free to email me at beat your jeans at gmail.com and also if you want to call in live during the show we are live on Wednesdays at 7:30 p.m. Pacific Standard Time for June and that number is six five seven three eight three zero seven five one so ty and Sophie emailed me and they wanted to know does somebody's high score on openness to experience influence whether or not they are a pair bonder or a casual mating baiting strategy person ah yeah that's a that's a good question and I actually I'm not sure what the answer is now I believe that I know that the open dimension and personality is probably going to make people more interested in casual mating because it makes them more interested in general to novelty however there are definitely high openness people who are pair bond dominant and so it's not a one-to-one match but I believe that their intuition here the intuition that's driving this question is correct in other words there is a there's going to be a tendency for moral high openness people to be more more naturally experimental and have a wider appetite for experience in sexuality the the openness dimension appears to cross every sensory domain so for example people that are more open to experience have wider palates they eat more wide variety of food they like more wide variety of touch they like more they're more explorative in terms of they like a wider variety of scenery to look at they they like to be in have more contact with a wider variety of people in other words there is every every sensory domain from smelling to taste to touch to hearing there have a wider palate with respect to music this looks to be a fairly you know a sensory ubiquitous feature of individual differences in personality it's essentially a wider attraction to novelty so now I'm imagining in like you know 10 20 years one of our female listeners who happens to be a scientist is probably going to invent like a breathalyzer test so that when you go on a date with the guy you just have them breathe in there see how much vasopressin he has and that way you can kind of give yourself a probability of whether or not he's going to be a pair bonder or a casual mating strategy dog that is a lot closer than 20 years much yeah there there there there are definitely scientists that are very interested in this question and I believe that you're going to have something like that pretty quick mm-hmm of course we we kind of girl girls females sense this fairly quickly and maybe if I don't they're younger and then they they kind of learn from their lessons and so they're at some point at certain age they're very attuned to all these different cues and signals that a guy may or may not be more pair-bond dominant yes and however remember that the the the average female has a problem in her head that she actually her mind is made up of independent neural circuits this is a very interesting feature of understanding human nature and that is that you can actually have one set of circuits telling you one thing and another set of circuits telling you another thing so anybody that has ever lost a loved one that was suffering knows the confusion when that person passes away that part of you can be very relieved and even happy that it's over and the other part can be devastated and so this is so even though we feel like we are an integrated singular unity entity we are not actually our brains are an amalgam of independent little midget computers those computers are integrated but they are to some extent independent and so the female is the two mating strategies exist inside all people and so females have females aren't just wanting love and romance they are also wanting to be to be swept off their feet and used as a short-term target by a male who is spirit who is fancier than they are and that is there's actually a desire for that experience that runs pretty hot because they are being pushed by neural circuits that are built by genes that the genes are are effective in causing this behavior in females because this is a way to get ourselves to pass on those heman or what we call no I don't know what do you call a Errol Flynn kind of a character can't remember that in history Casanova so if you mind Casanova genes you can pass those Casanova genes on to your son who can then impregnate 250 women in the next generation in principle and so the that is a perfectly legitimate gene reproductive strategy it's a strategy that will cause the women to be single mothers but they will be single mothers who had some great orgasms for a short period of time with Casanova and then wound up raising the kid themselves and so those circuits sit inside human females and sometimes they're just too enticing to ignore and you know this brings me to to a question about modern dating in your opinion how does the the modern dating environment in the forms of online dating where you just have a huge access to a lot of different types of people and you can just you know with the with a click of a button you can have access to probably more potential mates than your ancestors had in their entire lifetime oh sure absolutely what about what it means is that this is kind of an interesting thing that your your excitement ability to be excited or be attracted to any kind of situation or stimulus is a result of your sensing that you have you have recognized an advantage so for example if you are in the middle of the desert and you are hot and then you look out over the landscape and you see a cactus with a shadow you know the cactus is pretty tall at that suddenly you're excited because you're about to find some shade okay so your nervous system is designed to be detecting advantages and so the when it comes to mate selection we're designed by nature to just sift our way through our options and be sensitive to the options that to be genetically superior to other options and so and that will drive excitement so the in the Stone Age you would have only had a few options and so as a result maybe you've got maybe you got five or seven people that are more or less in your trading range and you pick your way through and you push and shove and you try to get the best one of the seven and that's all there was and so you know that that's that's what happened and that that may not have been that exquisite of a personality match and it may not be that great of a relationship but it was the best you could have done in the modern environment we now have an extraordinary and novel situation and that is that people effectively are are being driven by opportunity to make finer and finer gradations on trying to get little increasingly little advantages that in this in this arena and so there as a result you can have people they get very difficult to please because they can continually be be looking and suspect that if they keep looking they're going to be able to get a little bit more of an advantage so that that is a that's a feature of the moderate environment that is you know a challenge to to manage it well and do you believe that this uh this high accessibility to potential mates is one of the reasons why people are delaying getting married and having children compared to say maybe 20 years ago oh yeah I think so I think I think that people people can sense that if you if you actually if you if you if you were to run a math a mathematical equation to try to figure out how it let's suppose you're thinking about hiring a secretary and so and there's there's a hundred resumes in the stack the it's been estimated you can change these parameters around but this is the general idea the idea is how you find you know how do you make the best decision and the best decision is that you would for example look as you look through the resumes even if the first person is really good you don't take them because there's too bit of a chance that with a little more searching you can get somebody better so then you go to the second resume and they're not as good as the first so you remember what the person was like and then you go to the third one and they're not as good as the first and then you go to the fourth one and they're better than the first and now the question is should you take the fourth one and the answer is well wait a second you've got a hundred resumes you know how many people should you go through and a good good strategy from the standpoint of mathematics is that you go through each of these pairwise and you keep rejecting people and then calibrating to the best person that you find and you don't take anybody through the first 37 resumes and then after at that time you may remember that number 21 was the best out of the first 37 now the strategy is you take the next person that is equal or superior to number 21 that is the way to optimize the search search problem in a stack of resumes out of 100 now this is something like what people are trying to do here in the mating arena they realize that that when it comes to what they're trying to do is they're trying to pick in general what they're trying to do is they're trying to pick a long-term mate and so in fact if you if you cannot calibrate what it is that you're worth because you get too much diverse feedback over a number of years then I will argue that it's very difficult for you to actually fall in love with anybody because the feelings of love is just simply a feeling that you have gotten a very good deal that that's what that's what love is is it's actually a response from the nervous that tells you that this is an exceptional value and so if you're not sure what you're worth it's it's essentially going to be just about impossible for you to quote fall in love with anybody because you're not sure if you've gone enough through enough of the resume stack so the if you live in a small town and there's not very many options and or let's suppose you're unattractive in the modern environment and you have very few people flirting with you and over the course of your ages between 15 and 30 you've only have three options half-assed they came your way well you are getting the sense that you're not going to get very many options between age 30 and age 40 so if the next option that comes up is you know maybe better than the first three that you had then we would expect your nervous system to light a little motivation under you and tell you to take it but if you're a reasonably attractive person who's winding up with two or three pretty good options every year are are floating their way by and advertising themselves to you and you're 25 years old and for the last five years you've looked at 15 pretty good options it may be the case that you are suspecting that you should look through another five years with the resumes before you finally start getting serious about picking the best one and I think that that's part of what's happening okay and so the the question I have though is also it's related to this you know did the online dating in the apps and things like that where it is possible for four pair for a casual mating strategy to take place much easier for instance the the 99th percentile of attractiveness say for for a male will will have a lot of options for the casual mating strategy whether or not the female realizes it and so there are question is does this greater access to those higher to your males does that decrease the likelihood that a female will pair bond with a lower teal male oh that's good in other words I think it will probably lead to some females essentially chasing their tail and winding up getting burned over and over again by fancy males so and this doesn't have to be at the 99 percentile males this could be simply a male that is a sort of casual mating strategy dominant and he he recognizes and is effective at recognizing that that his that his game is well directed at females that are 10 percentile less fancy than he is and he's willing to sleep with such individuals and so as a result of that this guy can have a field day in the modern environment no matter where he is on the food chain and the the females that are that are particularly susceptible to this sort of thing and I will argue that part of that part of this is going to be narcissism on the part of the female that females with a little narcissistic streak ie people that are going to rate themselves higher than they really are are going to be very often duped by this situation if you can imagine a female who is a seven objectively in a male who is an eight objectively that the female thinks that she's an eight she may even think that she's a nine so when this male comes on to her she feels like she's getting her do that she is not in fact being over rewarded however it's going to turn out that somewhere inside that head she still feels like she's got the excitement because this is a better deal than she usually gets if this guy is spitting some game that suggests that he's playing para bond strategy she can actually be not being duped by her own nervous system in terms of actually secretly seeking a a Casanova male she can actually be desperate to find a pair of on metal and this guy simply makes pair-bond noise and her narcissism is quick to believe it because it seems reasonable to her that he's into her when in fact what he's doing is he's playing casual mating strategy with some deception and then she winds up being burned and this female with this of this stripe can get burned over and over and over and over again okay now females that are not don't necessarily have this narcissistic streak I think learn this game you know earlier and and they learn it with less with less heartache and and less burn less muss incidences of this and so the female who is appropriately a suspicious of males and is not it does not have the narcissistic streak and understands where it is that she really is calibrated in the world with respect to training for pair bond males is not necessarily at all going to be duped by this but I certainly think that your your general question is is hinting at something that is is true but an awful lot of females wind up getting burned a whole bunch of the time and essentially delaying and delaying and delaying ever ever accepting anybody that this is legitimate paraben material because they keep getting effectively tricked and enticed by casual mating strategy yeah and what I'm also thinking in that same vein is the female who has the casual you know has it has a casual mating strategy with somebody who is more attractive fewer gene mutations than she is so obvious she's excited about this he's playing casual mating strategy but let's say now he's agreeable and you know a little more conscientious and so she kind of hooks him into a pair bond strategy that that may last a few months you know or a little bit Langer where he's just you know too agreeable to conscience to to kind of say now I'm not really interested and so now you've got somebody who says well I'm in a pair bond with this guy so I must be about that same attractiveness percentile wise or greater right yeah this is uh yeah I think that a lot of a lot of time of females precious time gets burned by males who are really not that into it and and this is pretty expensive and so psychotherapist I start I start crying foul for females when they're like 33 or 34 in other words I start having the hard conversations with them when they're in some relationship and they've been it in a year and a half and the male's like dragging his feet not very committal not very expressive about how much he likes them seems to have a little bit of a wandering eye and etc and what what's very interesting about these situations is that very often if I describe the sort of sexual attractiveness you know if I get a try to get a feel for I explain casual mating a pair of on strategy and their dynamics there will very often be a denial on the part of the female in terms of their the relative attractiveness of the two people which the female will say know I'm more attractive than Neos and and so she feels like she doesn't fit into this category or the situation but their behavior absolutely following this pattern so it doesn't matter what the female objectively thinks what counts or what she consciously thinks what counts is what is the behavior of the individuals and when you have a foot-dragging non-committal wandering eye male he is signaling that he thinks he can do better and when you have a female that's clingy and anxious and and frustrated and feeling unloved and unappreciated but yet is still rolling over and opening up her legs you have a female who feels like she's over rewarded in the relationship and and so what you have really a casual mating strategy relationship of a prototypical dynamic you know my I have two sisters and I remember hearing my dad telling them when we were growing up and we were kind of all around the same age and he used to talk to us about dating and relationships and he used to tell my sisters he said just remember when it comes to dating and men just ignore everything they say and just focus on what they do that that is you should write that somewhere in in that should be written in gold plate that is one of them is one of the best pieces of home advice in wisdom homespun wisdom that I have ever heard goodnight you tell your dad that I think he's a genius that I will only write yes focus on what ignore everything they say focus on what they do because that is actually telling the story yeah that's that struck me as like as a guy I was a little irritated that he said just because because you know he's taking away my bread-and-butter yeah yeah yeah when I think about that it that lens would see right through every deception I've ever pulled on a female that's absolutely right yes uh I was a little irritated that he like you know took away my secret but my empathy for my sisters kind of saw through and said you know what he's probably right what well done her dad yes so so yeah you know I was reading an article the other day it's on a website called hooking up smart comm and they were going through an evolutionary psychology an article that was done by the University of Notre Dame with the research of sociologist Elizabeth McClintock and what she was exploring she's trying to study the impact of physical attractiveness on mate selection yeah and how that affects the relationships and a couple of things that that you brought up a couple of shows ago was David bus's book the evolutionary desire and in that book he basically said that women desire lasting commitment and the most desirable women are in the best position to get exactly that yeah so yeah for taking a study oh yeah yeah yeah I would say that that was a little bit of a mess misstep by bus a little bit of a misstep the truth is is that all women are in that situation provided they are willing to sleep down so the so that's a bus was maybe perhaps hypnotized by the fact that the most desirable women at the very top of the food chain can absolutely dictate terms and would essentially if you are a 99th percentile female you essentially have no way by which you could be enticed into casual mating by a Casanova in other words you're just not interested there there's you can get somebody equal to Casanova sexual attractiveness who is also on honestly signaling heavy pair-bond strategy and so although that that in principle he is he is accurate if we're talking about the absolute elite of the human genes with respect to women the same situation exists throughout the entire range of women the if they are they can dictate those terms but only if they're willing to sleep down and so of course all other women other than the women at the very top are going to have dissonance over this because they want to sleep up okay so the very top women eliminate that dissonance because there's no such thing as sleeping up so yeah in fact he's accurate but it's slight use for slightly different reasons that might be obvious okay and so does that mean that like what what are the factors that that make a female willing to sleep down yeah well for one of them that there's there's a variety of factors and some of them are contextual and some of them are genetic so for example I know women that that may have situations that are that are that they struggle financially and I don't mean I don't mean it's an inconvenient that they're going to have to buy a $15.00 a car instead of $20,000 car I mean somebody did that maybe they have a child and they've got a flake X and they're actually you know they're working awfully hard physically you know at the pizza place just to put a roof over their kid's head or maybe they're living with their parents or God knows what in other words there's real live that there can be significant issues with respect to people's happiness that and feelings of comfort in general around financial issues so the the more empowered the female is financially the less she's willing to sleep down okay so and the less empowered she is the more willing she is to sleep down so that that is a factor that works its way through through female psychological calculus the females also differ in and their own degree of narcissism so there are there are females who are eight to think they're nines there are females who are aides to think they are eights there are even occasionally females who are sevens or who are eights to think there are sevens those are extremely rare but there are there's a there are differing degrees of how hard a bargain er females are in that arena and so if a female is not a very hard bargainer in that arena then she is more she's likely to be very exciting to someone who's ten percent less than her and the looks arena but it's a really fine character and is uh in his paraben signaling to her and she might say well this is a good deal why wouldn't I take it I feel very comfortable with this guy's attractiveness and so that that is also a situation that you're going to see come up so and frankly there's also women who are are actually they find it distasteful the to deal with the casual mating strategy process that they're just not they're really just not into it they're not they're not genetically equipped with very much novelty seeking and they just don't have the chips around that whole game and so as a result they they can be much more Terrebonne dominant and therefore they are seeking people that signal that honestly and that that's all they're interested in so there's a variety of issues both genetic and situational that will contribute to these differences in women and so does diem does this you know the hard bargaining for say the eight who thinks they're nine or ten or or maybe not a ten but does that have to do with the personality trait of disagreeable agreeable yes uh undoubtedly it does in other words just in general the in general people that are disagreeable are simply this is a way to think about this is to think about that the average human being is a fairly reasonable bargainer but is somewhat biased in their own direction so I would argue that the average individual will out of a 50-50 deal they will feel like it's not quite fair and so really fifty five forty five is about what feels even to the average individual so to scan the world social psychological data on this just imagine that the average person feels like they're a little underpaid the average person is an entrepreneur who feels like they're paying their employees a little bit too much the average sports fan feels like his team gets screwed by the refereeing a little bit in other words everybody feels like they're getting chiseled just a little and they're fine with it like Lazar that's the best deal I can get that's fine like I'm willing to work for this company but I feel like this company is just getting a little better deal than you know etc people within the same company they'll have a co-worker that is maybe they're equal and they'll feel like they're five percent better than Jones over there and they deserve a little bit better situation than Jones deserves and so this is a this chip you can see how this chip would get embedded in evolution by by making you not too eager to make a deal where there might be a little bit better deal to be had and so to be mildly disagreeable ie moderate just mildly selfish a little bit me first a little bit I'm getting chiseled a little bit irritated that I deserve a little bit better deal this is absolutely characteristic of our species and so the average person is sitting on a slightly narcissistic chip now you can imagine that around what I'm going to call a 55/45 personality that would be the middle of the bell curve and then on either side you could imagine that there are people that are say sixty five thirty fives that they are they're not as big in numbers fifty five forty fives but they are they exist and they are a little bit more narcissistic okay and then you can imagine somebody that's an 80/20 trader very narcissistic okay so I actually had a woman that many years ago in my practice that was constantly being in it being in early relationships being excited and then getting tossed and this happened repetitively and I could I could see I was always astonished that she was ever any relationships at all because in my estimation on a one to ten scale this woman was about a two now a two is not a gargoyle a two is out of ten people she is better looking than one other person out of the ten and she's worse looking than the other eight okay so it's not like she was normal-looking human she was just she was in the two to three range an unattractive person but but not horrible and and yet she would have very many relationships and they would last for a very short period of time and and I was always kind of astonished that these things would ever happen and and then I actually bumped into her socially a couple times and the guys that were with her were like fives and and so I was sort of taken aback that this was true but I would hear various complaints from her about how impossible this guy was in the relationship for his ridiculous demands or how cheap he was or etcetera etcetera in other words I would hear always tremendous complaints and then the relationships would fall apart within 90 days you know without exception and so one night I was I was hearing the same tone of all of this irritation and all of this how why is this happening to me it's all unfair and it's he's so unfair and of course I'm thinking it's a miracle that anybody's even with you okay so the and so I'm kind of astonished and then I asked her a question and I said I said you know what's the pleasure at a party and there's like you know 15 men and 15 women at the party the I think I asked this because there was some incredibly arrogant thing that she had said about her attractiveness about what she deserved and I said suppose that that there's a guy at the party that's like the guy at the party you know he's definitely the most attractive guy at the party do you think that he would be at all interested in you now I have to tell you I expected the immediate answer to be no and her answer was yes and I just about fell out of my chair I was like I literally I don't remember word for word but essentially the conversation went like you've got to be kidding okay and she was like no she was defense have been like absolutely okay and she says well maybe not guided certainly the second guy were you know the top three definitely and I saw this is unbelievable this is like delusional because there's no way this is true and so the more we talked it became clear as I asked her about her strategy at a party that she would find some guy who was probably you know a six and she delusionally is going to manufacture that he's top tier and she would be make it very clear that she was very available okay and so she would be very available and the guy would you know guys would occasionally take her up on it and so she would then be you know shocked and dismayed that that these guys would dump her two or three weeks later or two days later or two months later and and almost invariably these guys didn't have jobs there was some kind of an artist there's some kind of deadbeat flake and she had a good job and made a decent amount of money and so they could move in with her and you know instead of move out of their mom's garage you know it's always the same kind of story and and so but what would struck me was the extraordinary a delusional state that she had about her own attractiveness and yet I could see how by being oblivious to how things kind of work that by making herself a repetitive cow mating strategy target of males that were fancier than her basically giving it giving her sexuality away for more than free in other words actually paying their bills that by having that situation she never got her head course-corrected about her actual value in a pair bond situation and so this is so you're correct in that the individual differences in females and how an incidentally quite disagreeable okay and so the the general strategy is or the general template that's driving these individual differences probably in women's self-calibration is largely an issue of agreeable disagreeable dimension and so if if you've got a woman a female I'm going to ask you a question for the females and one for the males for the females yes they happen to be miscalibrated how do you propose that they kind of beat that trap is there a way besides just calling you asking you know I I would beat that trap I have a general strategy for females just in general in dating and it's what I call ten paid dates and and that's that you know I always give my my big dolls that come to my practice I take out a business card of mine and I draw ten boxes on the back ten little boxes and I say ten times this guy has to pay for you and you have to check ten little boxes before any clothes come off okay and and this is how we smoke out the council mating strategy player and and that that's that's how you can tell because if you withhold sex for multiple occasions then you're going to find out whether that guy really thinks you're that great or whether or not he considered himself your superior and he was just doing a little drive-by shooting to see whether or not he could harvest an egg and and so if he dumps you miraculous tea riously between date three and date for date for and date five that he sorted isn't calling you back and he got a little pissy and he was expecting to get laid on date number three and then he tried date number four and then by date five he's getting shitty and even insulting or whatever there or just goes m.i.a then he told you the story and and this is a much better way to smoke this out than the heartbreak of giving up your sexuality and then winding up you know mysteriously confused as to what the hell happened okay and then for for males what happened what do they do I mean what what's your advice for males who get themselves into say a casual strategy but then the females too disagreeable to let them out for a few months well what if you you blot I mean if you if you somehow get yourself into somebody's pants and then it turns out that you wandered into the la brea tar pit and and you're going to then then you're just going to have to learn the following thing and this is this is a useful way for your own sort of self discipline and that is that the you are when you're in a relationship and you're not that into it and the chick is very into it you have to know that you are not doing her any favors even though she believes that you if you were smart and came out of the either and learned to speak the right love languages but somehow your relationship would be wonderful okay which is entirely bullshit the truth of the matter is the reason why it is that she's upset and clingy and kind of irritated and frustrated and hopeful all in one is because she is being over awarded in the relationship you are under awarded in the relationship and you are trying to figure out how to get out the side door without without a bunch of female upset okay and females screaming bloody murder and hurting people's feelings okay you know you don't want to do it and so and the female may have essentially unconsciously trapped you into this because she sniffed that you were you know a nice guy and that she could you she could bring you into the spider's web we know that this is a ubiquitous female mating strategy by the way this has been documented by David bus's research females will act stupider and more gullible than they really are in order to goad attractive males into taking quote advantage of them in casual mating and then try to tie them up into relationships so this is a this is uh this is something that it's worth men knowing that they've got to deal with now what I try to tell men is this that everybody deserves in principle to be in a relationship that they're really excited about and that means that have the person on the other side excited about you so if you are not excited about that female but you're with her you are taking up the space of a male who would be excited about being with this female and you are robbing this female who wants you of any opportunity to have that experience so you are actually this is this is a this is a gutless sort of a situation I'm not saying I don't understand it I understand it very well but it is not a situation where you're actually behaving admirably the admirable thing to do is to grit your teeth and send the signals and say listen you know you're fantastic you're wonderful I'm I'm just not in a good space right now and I always would want to be your friend this is the basic strategy I outlined this on my website at esteem dynamics org I call it how you get rid of a crazy girlfriend and and the the notion here is that we signal very hard that we think highly of the person but that we are just not ready for whatever reasons and in this way we we try to soften the blow of what is a very personal rejection but we get the hell out you got to get out very interesting very interesting I create responsibilities you have a great responsibility of a man as a man with particularly females that are under 40 because they they have an hourglass that were the sands are trickling down the hourglass and every month that you take from them is actually very expensive and very important and so for a male to fiddle around for a year with the female that he knows is that is not a pair of on qualifying female for him is irresponsible and you you have got to grit your teeth and q through the ropes and of course I mean in this perspective only the most highly conscientious people will will hear this and actually go ahead and do it right well it helps to be a little bit disagreeable the ugh if your very end conscientious then you just freak and leave the chick and couldn't give a damn so there's a our biggest problem is with your agreeable conscientious people and this is a very hard moment for them it is not easy for them it is harder in a relationship to be the person who loves less than the person that loves more the person that loves less carries a burden of responsibility and they they feel like that you know they are the ones that has to lower the boom and if they are conscientious their empathy circuits can be so great that it can be very difficult for them to do so so one must one must realize that that you are you are blocking the other individuals possibility for happiness and therefore you are doing them no favors at all by staying in a relationship that they want that is not the right thing to do okay very very interesting this is this is a I really enjoy this topic because I read I read social media constantly there's articles at Cosmopolitan GQ I mean every mainstream magazine you could think of and they are all talking about dating and and there's things on both sides kind of like what I shared a couple of shows ago with the the woman complaining how dating is messed up for everybody now but but this this makes a lot of sense this makes a lot of sense and and it's this is in your in what you're saying is this is actually where happiness will will have the greatest probability of existing in people as if if they adopt a pair bond strategy and they can can work through this in the right way no question there there's the research evidence overwhelmingly supports this the happiest people on earth are the people that are happy in their relationships the next happiest people are people that are in no relationship and then you know less happy still are people that are in relationships where they're not happy and so the you you're you have the capacity as you can tell your your nervous system gets very many moods in this life that are very good and so you recognize that you have the capacity to be quite happy now we as individuals there's too much vicissitudes in life to maintain happy moods you know 100 percent or 99 or 95 percent of the time there's going to be disappointments and struggles and hopes and then dreams that we reach for and we don't get etcetera etc so I am to my way of thinking that a person can essentially get like I will call it an eight an eight out of ten like eighty percent of the time your life can be in pretty good circumstances if you just follow your instincts you're probably going to get there all things being equal maybe 60% of the time and and what this is about what what we're trying to do here is we're trying to out think the constraints of the instincts and we're trying to be smarter than our instincts and go against those instincts when necessary and that that is how we give ourselves the better the best opportunity for having a life that's 80% happy instead of 60% happy wonderful and this is the whole purpose of your concept called beating your genes which is the purpose of this entire podcast is to talk about all these different strategies of how we can beat our genes yes absolutely we want to look at look at this life as essentially an investment portfolio that that and what you're investing instead of money is you're investing time and energy and the the payoff is not money the payoff is moods feelings and so if you are not having a lot of good feelings then this simply means that your investments are not very effective that you are not necessarily investing in the right things which means you're not doing the right things for the with the right people and so your your job is to take seriously the the unhappiness or the the whispers in your mind to tell you that you may not be in the right place right career right situation you know right romance right friends right location on earth in other words you may have messages that are coming to you in fantasy and in little moments of ovulation where you think about how life could be quite a bit different and you can think about reasonably how it is that things might be quite different for you and our job is to to essentially be smart about these investments and realize that you all you have in this life is time and you've got time and energy to do certain things and our job is to try to optimize our happiness and if we're not very happy sometimes it means we need to buck social convention and we need to buck conventional wisdom sometimes we need to do something that is very smart and takes some guts in order to reach a better level of human satisfaction
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