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Episode 173: Being cheap, Loaning money, Alcoholic husband, Influencing others
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dear dr. Lyle a few weeks ago your discussion regarding emotional intelligence and how this is nothing new and simply the Big Five personality traits spurred a question regarding another apparent personality trait that I've been wondering about namely cheapness versus generosity would not be a unique measurement or does it correlate to one of the Big Five looked let's say agreeable disagreeable I thought perhaps the cheaper you are the more disagreeable you are but looking at my own personal relationship doesn't seem to be the case as my friends as my friends and family described me as much more agreeable yet I'm the only I'm always the one looking for a deal well my better half doesn't really want to waste time on bargain hunting so hmm I also don't believe that this trait can be associated with environment as I've heard many instances of rich people being incredibly cheap such as Charlie Chaplin having alligator arms even though he was earning ten thousand dollars a week perhaps he grew up poor so I guess maybe it could be the environment what say you dr. Lyle no I think whatever we see something like this we're looking at combinations of things that's why it's why it's not one of the big five it's going to be a sample of several of them so probably what we're looking at is things like conscientiousness on not open and also some degree of disagreeable and possibly even emotional stability so well I think I think conscientiousness non-open and disagreeable yeah I think these are a little combination of those in certain percentiles is going to lead to frugality that that we're going to consider cheap so yeah I think the big thing that the person was thinking was disagreeable but actually probably the most important thing to be looking at there is probably be going to be conscientiousness with some degree of not super high agreeableness so we put the Conch the agreeable disagreeable somewhere in the middle of the scale but conscientiousness very high and we're likely to find somebody pretty you know reasonably frugal and also a lack of openness so not not not adventurous and not wanting to essentially spend resources on new and exciting things keep it simple keep it repetitive keep it inexpensive those are those are the mantras of those personality characteristics fascinating all right it's not as complicated mm-hmm no around or what what's that yeah Alan's cheap and probably the biggest the biggest thing that you're going to see there is a super low openness you know just not interested in any adventure and so the answer is no the hand goes over the wallet money goes into the trap and money doesn't come out of the trap all right and there's there's a bit of social expenses as well I mean it's almost like we're trying to balance out the social expense of being cheap versus the long-term financial expense of not being cheap I'm sure oh yeah it's a big big seedy swirling around there but I think yeah it's just a combination of these things now would you expect people who have say more children to be more cheap because they're they're they're more you know they've got more responsibilities in that sense financially or saying I was certainly I would certainly think all things being equal but this word gets to be difficult that that's an interesting hypothesis and and it should hold in other words the more responsibilities you have all things being equal the the more frugal you should be with any given decision but it's going to be hard to see and all the noise of all these other kinds of things so if you have someone that's not that conscientious and and pretty open and not very stable it doesn't matter how many kids they have they're spending you know right to the end of the credit limit so yeah I think that I think of course responsibilities are going to put some cap on these things but probably the main predictive variable is going to be these personality characteristics mm-hmm I've known a few waiters and waitresses in the service industry and every time it gets to the topic of tipping and being cheap in that regard they they always love talking I mean that they don't love talking about as much as I like asking about it but yeah but it's always cool to just how they've got it fine-tuned as to who's gonna tip more and who won't and the thing that keeps coming up is like when they know that there's a couple out on a date it's like they know that they're getting a big tip because the man's trying to signal that that he's not being cheap you bet absolutely it makes complete sense and and that you know that that is exactly how that goes down mm-hmm he's married all right that it he's gonna be just left his girlfriend and he's going to be laying it on thick all right let's move on all right our next question dr. Lyle could you please explain two things that might be related number one the practice of chastity in certain religions and minimalism if sexual activity and conspicuous consumption are both driven by genes survival and reproduction then our people who try to swim against the current practice against the current by practicing chastity or minimalism are they attempting to beat the genes or they simply ego trapped and say kicking over the table or is this just another highly agreeable oh yeah yeah these are some interesting yeah I'm sorry to interrupt you but this this starts to get once again depends upon which which you could have the same behavior being played out by different combinations of the big five so you could be looking at different things you could absolutely be looking at ego trap so you could have somebody that a female who's not very attractive goes to the memory basically kicking over the table and saying hey I'm not trying and I have no doubt that that's been done often in history you could also have someone of high conscientiousness that is going to and low openness that is absolutely going to signal this for potential mates and so that that individuals say a female that's signalling this is trying to increase her mate value by by indicating that she's not available for casual mating strategy and so that that makes her potentially more valuable to a pair blonder who can then have an increased statistical likelihood that any kids that drop out of her or his so that's a that's another potential use of that signalling strategy so yeah so there's more than one possibility for why people would do this and finally another one is just the potentially sheer display of excellence in other words because it would be theoretically hard to do you not that I've found it hard to do I found it frustratingly easy to do but the point is is that in theory if it were difficult to do then this would become a fitness indicator of one's impulse control and thereby potentially increasing one's attractiveness in some way so so there's all different little angles that could be driving the same behavior I think that but it probably a dominant one among females would be that they are trying to display higher mate value at you know by signalling that they are not casual mating strategy available so that's probably the primary reason for this fascinating yeah it reminds me of the movie Sister Act but I don't know why yeah I've forgotten her movie I kind of liked it at the time but it's completely forgot it oh it's which do big over it matches that I remember yeah all right yeah I guess if we have very low open listeners perhaps a trip to the convent might be a good little game yeah okay all right what else we got all right dr. Lyle why is it that loaning someone money always turns out badly you try to help someone in a bind and somehow they end up your enemy happens almost every time also how do you refuse somebody asking for help in order to avoid this especially when they know you do have money or at least they think you do dr. Lyle we aren't broke but we're not really rich either yet the borrower's always seem to home in on us yeah interesting we've got some agreeable you know hi agreeable hi conscientious and therefore therefore you know almost there for the sucker triad so there we go yeah I don't think that it always winds up poorly but it's often going to wind up poorly and therefore this is sort of dicey business to do the a lot of times after people have borrowed money if they can't they will make promises about paying it back that are not realistic but they're that they're essentially signaling or selling you on the best-case scenario as a result there's going to be multiple reasons why this can run into trouble first of all the individual that's in this kind of hot water in the first place I may not have the best judgment and and may not have the best characteristics for being responsible in the first place that isn't necessarily the case but it's statistically more likely to be the case so and then second of all they're going to paint a rosy scenario - because they're going to try to assure you that the Seabee is not really all that bad and so there be likely to be being okay this back in two months two weeks 90 days just one year whatever it is when circumstances are realistically but optimistically expected to change this now puts them in a position of selling you something that is rosy and so then the problem with this is that you then can have a set of expectations including an integrated set of goals and plans for what it is that you're going to do when that money comes back and so you're sort of scoping this out in your own spreadsheet of your own life and then of course very often it turns out that they can't do this they can't pay you back according to schedule and so when you get assertive about it at all saying hey I thought that after 12 months this was going to hit what was going to happen as we agreed then on if they can see that they're actually in hot water and that they can't live up to those expectations then this is where you start to find the limits of some character issues so if they've got some disagreeable or lower conscientiousness in their that that they were not displaying quite as clearly to you a year earlier then what can happen is that they can justify seek to justify the essentially reneging on this by recounting various and sundry things that you've done to them that weren't fair in the past etc and so they can start their brains are wired start having a litany of of reasons why it is that you deserve to have this thing renegotiated post hoc so there you go so this is why this is so often going to wind up in bad circumstances this is this is very much why it's always best when you can to borrow or lend as a third party so that there is a legal document and consequences that are going to be clearly understood et cetera you know there's a lot of potential for people to be able to lend and borrow in the modern world and so let people go through that Avenue if they if they don't if they need $5,000 and they can't get it from their mother or their brother mysteriously then then they can get it off their credit card and not you and if they can't get it off their credit card that tells us something about their credit report and maybe they shouldn't be borrowing you know if a credit card won't give you $5,000 their good trend definitely shouldn't okay so let's keep that sort of thing in mind and when I've when I've lent money to people I sort of consciously decided whether or not I could do without the money altogether and and so more often than not actually that's what has taken place the I don't recall ever lending money to a guy it's always some X okay so some X needs some money and I have just decide whether or not it's worth just giving it away and so yeah that that's where I've lent my money and wound up never asking for it back and never getting it yeah you have to decide whether or not that whether or not it's worth it to you to be helpful in that way and I think that's if the answer is if you can't afford to not have that money back where you can't we would be significantly inconvenient then the answer is now okay and you know if you just feel like that this wouldn't wouldn't be something that you want to do then the answer is no and what we're going to do to get out of anything like this just to further the further the instructions here is to you always use big Louie so the you know whenever you give anybody bad news you always blame somebody else don't take responsibility for it so you just say listen I'm just talking to my accountant and we're going over my our numbers and you know we just we in order to do some things that we need to do for ourselves it's just going to be a little too tight this year wish we could but we can't that's all done choke it out and then they'll go find somebody else so go find the next most likely sucker and they will probably succeed all right fascinating yeah my my dad used to say that if you borrow if you lend somebody money and you never see them again the price was worth it yeah there there you go yeah actually that's almost exactly how this has gone down for me yeah that's how that works all right well perhaps well next we have we have a couple of voicemail questions and so just about the the voicemail what we actually have is is a voicemail box that sets that's set up for people that let's say you want to call in to the show and maybe it's not the right time the time idea timing of the of the show maybe it's too late or maybe you just want to call in have a question or make a make an aunt have an answer I mean a what am I trying to say you have a question comment concern about the show you want to give us a call the number that you can call is 7 1 4 920 601 and you can just leave us a voicemail explain a situation so that takes us to a couple of voicemail questions that we have today which are some situations from listeners so doctor a lot of the first one we're going to play right now here we go ok hi there I'm calling from Ontario Canada and the reason I'm calling is I have a question for dr. Lyle I am married and I believe my husband has a drinking problem he denies it he doesn't drink to get drunk every day but he will have binges once every couple of weeks where he drinks and drives and stays out late comes home very belligerent will come in the bedroom flip on all the lights for all the covers off me he's got frustration and anger and he seems to take it out and let it come out of himself when he had too much to drink but my question more so I'm going to al-anon now I just started doing that so I think that's going to help me learn how to navigate this relationship a little bit better but I'd like to know why he never apologizes he will never say sorry he will if he does that when it's rare he will pass it up like yeah I'm sorry yep try not to do that again and just sort of like it's not that feeling like it's coming from the heart or really since years more something he feels obligated as he knows maybe sometimes this behavior is really awful but I mean he has said and done things over the last 10 years that have just been awful and he refuses to apologize at all and it really hurts me and I just don't feel like I can get past it without an apology and half dr. Lisle could tell me why he might not apologize and why I feel I can't get past and move forward without this apology I would really appreciate it and I love love love your show so keep doing what you're doing it's amazing thank you lovely okay are you there Nate yep mm-hmm okay well obviously this sounds like it's a pretty stable situation in other words this guy kind of is who he is I disagree about he's not that conscientious obviously and so you know this is this is a unpleasant thing to be living with to say the least in terms of how it is that that she feels about this or whether or not you could do something to try to rock this out of the equilibrium minute in the let let's talk about we we just spoke about this issue of someone who owes you money and then justifies justifies not following through on their obligations by essentially trashing you okay essentially just justifying why it is that you know to the coalition and to you why it is that you deserve to have this thing renegotiated this is kind of what this looks like it's the same thing so effectively this behavior is he's in debt NS in essence and so he he's justifying what he's doing by being nasty and so he's not apologizing so one of the the one of the better moves that you could do to try to disrupt this system is to flood the circuit so when he's sober you know the day afterwards you sit down you say listen I just really want to talk to you seriously for about I just need about 15 minutes and he'll be resistant because he thinks he's going to get criticized just fine and and if he says no I don't have time tomorrow it's like okay well you know sometimes the next two or three days and so we finally he has to agree and boy he doesn't he this sounds ominous but he's pretty disagreeable so he's he's he'll be ready he'll sit down you know like like an ass and be ready to defend himself and justify why he does what he does and then we're gonna surprise him so this is why it is that you need to prepare for how you're going to flood the circuit so then what you're going to do is you're going to you know I've described this elsewhere you can go to my site where I described this I'm not going to go into detail here but what you do is you essentially script out a laundry list of all of the reasons why you like admire respect and love the sky you use attribute anecdote is the technique where you say the something good about him and then you say why so if you say well one thing I love about you is just so handsome your shoulders or ball I eat so now we just went we just said the attribute the handsomeness but the anecdote is specific okay I really like how you're just a brilliant person I remember the time Lynn okay that you solved this problem that nobody else could solve or I couldn't solve so we bounced back and forth between attributed anecdote and we describe for them all of the reasons why and the more authentic you are the better you want this to be authentic now we're going to ignore all the things that irritate the hell out of you so the so we're in other words we're not going to say and then however yeah that's not what we're going to do we're just going to load them on this okay now this is now they they are going to be this should be a tidal wave because people don't get flooded like this very often in their life particularly when they're expecting to get criticized and all we need to say at the end of this is hey you're just so valuable I just really wish you'd get some help okay don't have to say anything else and now what we've done is we have altered their cost benefit on the existing behavior pattern because remember they kind of feel like their reputation is trashed with you anyway they have a lousy reputation and they deserve the lousy reputation and so as a result the very same CB on the alcohol that led them to have the lousy repetition in the first place is still there there's still an addict and so but now it's worse because now they've dubbed them as a reputational hole and it just feels like they can't get out of it so what we're going to do is we're effectively going to wipe the slate clean and we're going to say hey you know you essentially what we're saying is you've got a hell of a lot more status here than you think you do and you're miss reading the CB on how you're managing this so you still have a lot to lose is basically what we're saying now if this doesn't work quite frankly if this doesn't light a tremendous fire under the sky and he doesn't you know who is who is the it was the kid that I can't remember in and Oliver Twist Fagin okay if he doesn't straighten up and become a new man like Fagin then you know this is your see beyond who this person is and whether or not it's worth keeping your life integrated with them via but this is the chance this is the turning point that gives them an opportunity to say oh my god okay I still have status here my strengths are still appreciated and I need to get with it right now and take this very seriously because I've been given a second chance so that's how you give somebody a second chance you flood the circuit and you tell them but I really I really wish you'd get some help it's too valuable to watch this happened to you and and then we see what happens so that's that's my advice for people in this kind of a situation all right let's go on ahead don't here's our next one hi I love the show and I wanted to ask a question I have noticed that my husband on social media posting post political things because he feel very strongly about a particular view and I tell them everyone has an opinion and I don't really feel that you're going to be getting to change people's opinion but he really feels that in any of the smart values very intelligent and he likes to point out what he says the obvious but I don't know it seems to bother me maybe I'm just don't like conflict or whatever and I don't have those uses other people but I don't feel like I need to post it or to necessarily take a stand and and I don't know social media is necessarily the place that you do take a stand but anyway I was wondering from an evolutionary psychology standpoint what this means and just wanted to get that perspective on that thank you well there's uh there's a lot of little different things to consider here but people people are very frustrated with political processes in villages so they this is just part and parcel of human nature so human beings have coordinated action and they have markets and and friendship processes insurance schemes etc they do that because it's more benefit than it is cost in order to live in close proximity and have exchange relationships that doesn't mean there are costs there are great conflicts of interests I mean just look at the 10 commandments you know whatever the heck they are I don't even know what they are but there's a whole bunch of Val shalt not this and thou shalt not that it's like you know that'll shot not I don't know just covet the neighbor's wife is that 100 but the point is somebody said that okay alright well why well because you're living in close proximity and of course you've covered the neighbor's wife she's sufficiently attractive so what we see is that there's conflict of interest all over the place so there isn't just caught you know there's not a lot of conflict of interest between you insert animals and in the in the jungle but humans are not just another animal in the jungle they're the very same animal as you therefore they have exactly the same needs and wants as you have that makes them a direct competitor so the only reason why people aren't just hitting each over the head or etc is because that you know the sea beyond that winds up being not as good as being cooperative but when you when you become cooperative it doesn't mean that we've reduced the conflicts and as I've spoken before about the roots of politics the the root of the root political issue in politics is share not share it's the decision in a village as to whether or not we're going to share what it is that we've come up with with resources or we're not going to share it and there's age there's an inherent evolutionary logic as to when it's in our best interest to share and when it's in our best interest not just to share and the more capable we are the lesson in it's a the less of our interested is to share and that's because we're not in that trouble that often so we don't need that much help and the the less capable we are the more we want there to be a sharing mentality and so this is how this is going to work and so there's a dynamic tension what if you're at the 51st percentile for capability well then you're kind of in the middle that you lean a little bit to what we call the right ie a little less sharing what if you're at the 49 percentile of ability okay the what if you're at the 99 percentile of ability but you could get laid more by pretending that you know you think it's not that everybody ought to share up in a big way ie you're your left you're a left-wing mogul in Silicon Valley so the so of course you know that political processes are inherently conflicted and the and so of course people are going to feel like we need to have the village as much as we can on the same page for what to share not share you know parameter should look like so this is the constant low-grade background music of irritation in a Stone Age village it doesn't have to rise to the level of fisticuffs and it doesn't that's not really where it comes comes to but it's a little grade chronic irritability now if it's difficult for four thirty adults in the Stone Age village to come to agreements when they can watch how hard people are working and if they're working hard and they're failing there's going to be less irritation on the part of the competent because if you can see somebody that's working hard and they've had bad luck you're not nearly as irritated about sharing and if a person has been very fortunate and they're lucky and we know that they're lucky we feel like they ought to share and interestingly enough they probably do too it's also the case that you've got your genes distributed all over this village you've got your brothers you know your brothers kids there so you got like a quarter of your genes located inside them and then maybe they've got some kids there so these are like grand nephews or whatever and so they've got one-eighth of your genes sitting in there so the Hamiltonian biological logic here means that you're going to be a hell of a lot tied in and more cooperative but even there we've got punk looks now of course if we expand this out to three hundred and thirty million people that don't have anything genetically in common they don't didn't don't even meet and then of course the conflicts are pretty acute and so you're hardly going to get an agreement here and yet the person can feel intuitively that there should be agreement and the interesting thing about this is that we believe in our soul that people that disagree with us are morally wrong okay and so this is this gives rise to the vitriol that you see and so this man is trapped in this delusion that he lives in a stone-age village and that the people on the other side that are disagreeing with them have just these horrible moral structure that because they see it so differently than he does on the share not share dimension it's ludicrous the these people have different personal circumstances and they view the situation differently on the share not share dimension and they're just as fundamentally rational okay they're just got a different perspective so they may not they may not be as smart they may not be as informed they may not understand economics as well there may be reasons why they're operating under some delusions but that doesn't make them morally inferior now the idea that you're going to convince them this course ludicrous and so the the fact that it bothers the wife is kind of interesting of course because his his anger isn't possibly embarrassing her and I would tell her well then don't look at the social media and who specifically is it that we're worried about are watching him on social media and that it's going to impact her status well if there's there better not be more than three people you care about because if you start talking about that you're going to be embarrassed in front of 30 people listen you don't have 30 people in your life so let's get super clear about who it is that really matters and if there's three people that are close to you that you really matter they're really matter to you about what they think of you and your husband and your husband is embarrassing you in front of those three people then you number one you tell them you're embarrassing me in front of these three people not the village in general the village in general can go pound sand okay and second of all if it turns out that those three people aren't you don't have that much conflict with them and so and he can you know and you can or you can essentially sell them down the river and say you know what do you want am I going to do a charge you know case can't stop himself so oh well what are you gonna do can't have everything you can totally defect it's in terms of your solidarity with him to the people that matter to you if you are in fact disgusted by this behavior even if you may a largely agree with them politically you could still be disgusted with the behavior and you can say so okay so other than that get yourself off of social media because it's all just pseudo a scheme anyway and the last thing we need is a bunch of a bunch of negative inputs in our life behind pseudo esteem processes that's a that's a total waste of time so anyway those are those are some of my thoughts about politics social media and moral superiority the the delusion of moral superiority okay all right yeah I'll and so I well I wanted to if you if you don't mind I want to talk about this a little bit more because obviously I use Facebook for for business purposes to keep my my patients and people who are paying attention to news as far as what I do for business and so I use Facebook to keep people up to date on that but I you know I'm always you know the friends friends Facebook the newsfeed and all that stuff has constantly people arguing right left and not just about politics of you know Republican Democrat conservative liberal but also the politics of healthcare and people posting about changing people's minds about food and health and all that stuff and so the question that always comes up is well how really how much effect do we really have at influencing others just by reading a social media post and then the the follow-up for me is is yeah maybe one person may not make a difference but if you've got say thousands of people are on the same page and they're posting and now all of a sudden everybody starts seeing these things in their newsfeed does that really make a difference to somebody change because of that or is the Seabee in their head whenever it flips the switch into the direction of the benefit is they just go searching for their own answers essentially yeah somebody actually did a fairly sophisticated a steady of Billy Graham and they thought okay we're gonna look at persuasion attitude change we're gonna find out we played I'm sorry is that the the famous pastor yes so uh Billy Graham's no no slouch when it comes to persuasion and attitude change and the guy would fill up the Rose Bowl you have one hundred five thousand people in there so somebody actually went to the trouble at some point of trying to figure out how many people he converted it was like like thirteen okay oh the so yeah obviously this kind of thing is a generally a big waste of time and and it's fine it's like people people can't stop themselves you're activating little little argumentative circuits that were built for the village to to essentially feel anger that people were interfering with with just process and you needed to have just process if you were going to have a reasonably functioning village and so people are all upset about it and and this is all you know just trap so I could to total waste of time the world is going to go wherever it's going to go millions of people are going to think whatever millions of people are going to think the only thing that's worth doing it's not worth trial I change the government policy and the you know the cultural zeitgeist about veganism or anything else understand that's ludicrous the all you want to do is your Aunt Millie who's sick and getting loaded up with diabetic medications and can't feel or toes that's somebody we're talking to and that's somebody you know we're saying listen Aunt Millie I care about you and you know I would like to share with you some information I'm not sure I'm right about everything but I I've you know seen and heard that people in your circumstances can do much better if they try to make a few changes it might be worth giving it a try you know before we try to change 50,000 Minds or five hundred Minds try to change one and see if you can do it see how Desmond died oh yeah you'll find out exceedingly difficult so it's exceedingly difficult yeah one of the things that that we the gave rise to the book the pleasure drop was the tremendous energy that Alan Goldhamer has put out trying to get change people change their diet lifestyles these are people that fly to him get on a bus you know in the middle of the night you know spend their money take time off of work from their families and and their careers and you know take their vacation time and they come up and they starve for ten days on water and then they eat this tasteless you know swill yeah now you get to do the same thing at fasting escape but Nathan gross felt with no people do that alright willingly because they believe that it may help them and even those people have an extraordinarily difficult time change in their diet lifestyle permanently so if people that are already completely and totally committed to a new vision have a very difficult time doing it then it's hardly worth trying to you know waste your breath trying to convince somebody else that they should do it for example and the same thing is true politics so the for all the shouting back and forth that takes place in politics the government goes on its business people you know and the world goes on its way you're still a nice free society it's still more prosperous than it's ever been in history and ten years from now it will be far more prosperous than it is now and that's how it works and you can't stop that process that's an inexorable process of a free society as it continues to make progress so whether whether or not you're heroes in charge or not in charge the influence on your life is going to be minuscule and quite frankly not that it isn't fun to argue with people might be entertaining but if it makes you uncomfortable or other people around you are making you uncomfortable get yourself away from it and socially divorce yourself from that process and let let whoever else it is have you know have fun they're delusional process of trying to convince anybody of anything like this mm-hmm yeah remember I remember with my I've had patients where I can talk to them for months and months and months hours at a time you know they're asking all kinds of questions and and they just don't care at all about changing their diet lifestyle doing the exercises I you know whatever it was and some people you say one sentence in passing about some comment you know some questions they asked and then three months later they come back and they're like I've changed my diet I've lost a bunch of weight I've done all this and it's just you know they've got some magic magic thing going on and I didn't understand that actually until I watched your perfect personality and how there's now the characteristics that are just going to you know have have the they're going to be able to do it much much easier than others just because they had that natural yeah yeah unusual personalities and unusual motivation that that leads to unusual a seizure of an opportunity but political fights I consider them to be kind of entertaining and funny and a good good reason for some cutting humor but I have a friend of mine he's very political and I don't talk guile and talk to him every two or three weeks whenever I talk to him he's all wound up and he wants to process with me for about 10 or 15 minutes about the local latest political issues and I laugh with them and oh and awe about it and then I'm like done it's like I can't believe that that he's been he's probably spent 10 or 15 hours a week for the last three weeks when I wasn't looking if I spent 50 hours of his life you know processing all this and you know meanwhile I've spent none and so so unless it's the the most entertaining thing that you can think of in this life to immerse yourself in these things then I would suggest you you take a good long look at a list of on a little taxonomic list of what could cause you happiness and select something on there that's likely to have a better result yes I guess the the purpose of all these Facebook posts and all this stuff really shouldn't be about trying to convince somebody it's more about putting it up on your page that with someone were to look at your page they have a good good idea as to what your beliefs are and such you know what what positions you take I guess right could be an advertising medium for yourself right you know what I mean it did to survey who it is that you are etc etc yeah maybe it'll maybe it'll get you laid or make you a friend good luck got it laughing you think you're saying that actually it it won't even matter at all and you're actually it's like it's like negative extra credit the more you reveal the more people can possibly rule you out anyway so but better to say though I'm losing program yeah this is a total waste of time the the it this is just silliness you people are arguing over Stone Age inferences that they don't even know they're making so that that's what's interesting about it so you run into somebody that's a died in the wool liberal it's because they feel inherently like things are unfair and it bothers the hell out of them and their moral imperative says no it ought to be a lot more even they see people's failures as a result of bad luck as opposed to a lack of effort we know this is scientific support for this that's exactly what's taking place here they actually have the same underlying moral code is a conservative okay a conservative has the same moral code if you convince them that the person's situation is in fact due to bad luck then they don't have the same feelings it's that they have different entrances about failures and they'll say no I believe that failure was not a result of bad luck I believe that that was that was willful their responsibility okay and if a liberal thinks that the person's failure is the result of willful irresponsibility they will also not want to be helpful this is straight you know to be in cosmides this is a this is demonstratable fact so the the the underlying moral structures are pan human it's just the people depending upon their life circumstances and their personalities they will wind up having a slightly different viewpoint of a time question ultimately of Charon our chair and so that will result in them being definitely on one side of the other of that of the dimension of Charon our chair and sort of how left-wing or how right when you are really depends upon how you know your personality and circumstances how you view the sure not sure to mention most people are somewhere in the middle as you would expect and so that's you know but the idea of if you happen to be at the 75th percentile on the not share side of it so you're quite conservative good luck convincing somebody that's at the 25th percentile that they're wrong they're just as determined to convince you that you're wrong and and and to try to rewire their personality so that they see the existing evidence from a different perspective you say this is the height of Kali this is a light blur right you're trying to get change your kid to get it straight or straight to gay or either one to something in the middle good luck you're not changing anything I guess if they're stable enough they can meet together in right policy because they'll they'll never let anyone ever forget anything from their position now that's very true you got it all right well no enough of the politic yeah yeah yeah we have it something quick and entertaining yeah you want the one about four heads yeah sure let's do that one let's close with that one that's good all right sounds ago dear dr. Lyle this is a bit conspiratorial but I was wondering why there seems to be a prevalence of average to larger sized foreheads among male celebrities for example Matt Bomer Henry Cavill Ryan Reynolds and Pierce Brosnan virtually every one of theirs are quite big perhaps this applies to females too but what's that play first of all I don't know that they're true but they could be true and and I think it probably is so what's you're gonna find is that certain facial characteristics are going to be as the result of idealized balances of sex hormones and so I think that that's what they're looking at so full forehead big you know big strong jaw all these kinds of things the eyebrows these are these are characteristics of good what they call developmental stability due to excellent ratios of testosterone and estrogens so the that that's what you're saying it's interesting to me sometimes I in my history I can't I can't recall exactly when this happened but at some point I saw a photograph of I think it was Cindy Crawford and I'm looking at the photograph and it didn't you're like I think her hair was back and and and I wasn't even paying any attention and then I think I saw that it said Cindy Crawford blob you know I don't know says hi to Dallas god knows what I don't know what but I thought god I would never recognize that face and I would never recognize that face because it looks like every other models face and I would learn later that there's a there's a set of golden ratios that build you know the facial structure that make a face handsome or beautiful and and so these are you know these are sort of deep biological processes and so of course a huge percentage of models look extremely similar and it's also going to be true that I had a young young person I that I met and and I was showing her some movies she was a friend of a friend and we watched the the sting and she was shocked because she thought Robert Redford was Brad Pitt this was really interesting it was very it was a little bit eerie for her so the young Robert Redford looks quite similar to Brad Pitt and their facial structures have a great deal in common that's an example the the when it's good it looks a lot alike and so I think that's what the person is seeing it's not you know I think a full forehead is just is probably one of these characteristics and and but there's a slew of them and it has to do apparently a plastic surgeon fifteen years ago or something I think his name is Steven mark hard built a mask that that had these golden ratios in it and he he actually was using this as a as a template for making plastic surgery decisions to essentially figure out how to make a person's face you know what moves could they make there would be the least invasive that would move the face towards the mark cards mask ie to to minimize the deviation from the golden ratios it was a very very interesting idea I really don't know whatever happened to it that conceptually it was ingenious and so that that's a sort of a long long diatribe away from our question but it but it's it's right in the heart of what this question is asking what am I looking at you're looking at the characteristics of good genes and that's why a lot of people that are very attractive can look very similar
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