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Episode 160: Special Episode Broadcasting on Facebook Live
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well good evening everybody this is dr. Doug Lyall here and Nate gee is downstairs the fastest case scrambling around to try to get technology in order so I think we're actually going to pull this off let's see tonight apparently there's this we're broadcasting on Facebook live so I'll try to look at the camera I have no idea what the questions are going to be so we're going to just chitchat here for a minute anybody want to say anything the UH I think we actually have a live caller or two that's coming and thank goodness our host has arrived again good all right I think I survived all right we hear that the intro should play it all over and we get the intro we did it all right how's everybody doing all right so in case our listeners hear we have we are recording live on Facebook live so if you'd like to listen to it live or watch it live you can join these fans of the beat your genes podcast or just uh I guess I can share it on my page as well but alright so welcome to show everybody we've got a couple of callers so dr. what do you think you understate the callers yeah so Marysol are see what happens all right if anybody has any questions you guys can just type them in here to the to the chat box and then we can get to those so we are going to start with Brian Brian from Jacksonville and we're on Facebook live so I'm not sure if you guys will be able to hear the questions so what I'll do is I'll type the question as Brian writes it so that you guys can hear it alright Brian thanks for calling the show all right perfect hey I'm a fan of the show and I know you guys do a lot with Shep there's the Ted pay dates or twelve paid dates whatever the case may be I just thought it'd be fun to see what dr. Lyle had to say about flipping the script and giving advice to guys are looking for casual mating relationships what they should do other than obviously look good and be pissed okay so the question yet yes okay so casual mating strategy advice for males obviously look good be rich and frequent places where females will will use drugs and alcohol that's a good strategy also you want to be on the on the lookout for for women that are showing more skin in their clothing the ones that are showing more skin in their clothing or much more likely to be at a fertile point in their cycle and therefore much higher libido so obviously if they wear a lot of color this is this is also they're trying to attract a bunch of attention and they're signaling a potential casual mating availability obviously not necessarily true all of these things none of them may be true but collectively this is what you're looking for I'm trying to think what else obviously go to places where people drink dance and where where there's a where there's the the nature of the music and the whole vibe is that you can't even have a decent conversation so it's off but you can't display your intelligence all it's all about your animal charm there that that's what I just do Brian about we've got ear piercings multiple your piercing Oh actually yeah probably as signals indicating your own sort of lower conscientiousness probably wouldn't hurt in a lot of cases you know just displaying of sort of badass characteristics one way or the other also you know drive a muscle car so static on tattoos is that yeah there that's a good idea stick on tattoos muscle cars things of that nature yeah cows are mating strategy signals there we go what Oh what do you think about females that have like for example not super hairy but their arms are a little bit hairy or something that made at the Kate hire like a higher dose of testosterone for a female therefore a higher but you know do you think there's anything to that but I've never heard that before I wouldn't be cries if it's true however there's going to be I think there's going to be correlation coefficients with body hair depending upon where the genes came from in around the world so there's places where people are got more hair than others and I don't necessarily think it's a reliable to Susteren queue so but it but it may be better than nothing but I think you're probably talking about relatively small variances there but yeah it's something I've never heard before but I'm trying to think certainly oh here's another thing the yeah now we've got me rolling says I never think along this direction my library hasn't been accessed in a long time the certainly cues of athleticism from females females that are in fact you know indicating higher testosterone potentially more competitive etc even more disagreeable I believe is probably going to be surprisingly a useful thing to be cueing into so strangely enough of course more highly effeminate females are going to on average have lower libido just statistically well our Gen Hawk actually saying casual mating strategy got a bluff like your life depends there you go soon to be dr. Jen och alright alright thank you Brian very much for your your question really appreciate it thanks for listening the show are our next connect scholar with the the last three are the last two numbers of your phone is eight nine so caller welcome to show what's your name where you calling from hi my name is Kate Petra Chabot sorry I shouldn't say my last name yeah I'm calling from Seattle can you know yep and I called earlier a few months ago and dr. Lyle helped me with my son who's developmentally delayed and he talked about just you know let let go as if you're watching grass grow and just don't worry about it cuz I was worried about him being in high school and and not getting what he's by the time he graduates well so we put them in he's been five at school the whole time except for high school public and it's a huge public school which is really rough they have like the police came today because they were fighting and there's fighting in the halls nearly daily and he had a several weeks of bullying which the principal worked out and he's reporting that that's not happening more but he's really unhappy in their school and there's a school in California that his come brother goes to a boarding school and he's done he loves it he blossom here and my younger son has wanted to go there this for high school and he spent summer schools there and he loves it they love him and really wants to go and my husband is very oppositional defiant and disagreeable and so his knee-jerk reaction is always no and his argument is that he would miss him too much and so I don't know how to approach the argument and I don't know if there's a particular strategy I could do to convince him besides just not say anything because it seems that any kind of reasoning I come up with doesn't work and I feel like he's being selfish that it's really the best thing for my son to be able to go there and be in a place where he loves it and they love him and he wants to be and and that it's only a three more years but but it's really important formative years for my son but for my husband it's like you know it's selfish to to possibly change the direction of his life because you don't want to be away from him so I don't know if if there's a way to approach this to hopefully get what I want what I want for my son which I really feel is the best thing form yeah okay so what we have is we have a problem of being in a position of weakness in principle or we're going to talk about how much weakness you're in with a unreasonable disagreeable human chapman's you happen to be married to this person so that that is a that that's a that's a difficult situation to be in obviously I would have a couple of things that I would say first of all concept that these are formative years for your son and therefore quote important is not true they're not formative of anything so that argument sails out the window the issue is and is that these are this is a time of his life that's just as important as any other time of his life and not more important not neither more important or less important than the last three years it's part of your life experience and your son is it sounds like how long has he been at this high school this is his first year at the high school so almost a year it's almost a year and he really just likes it correct yeah mm-hmm yeah the I would what I would probably do is I mean and so your is your husband's let me want to ask what your husband's arguments are in this regard is that is there any other argument other than the fact that your husband would miss his son you've got the crux of it that's it that's the army right he agrees that the other school would be better for him yeah but the kid would it would be better in the sense that it's better for him because he would enjoy his life more you know I mean unless you get better attention they have a learning strategies program and he would he might they might be able to help him take the next step after high school you know hook him up with the right program afterwards so there's potential that sort of potential as well it might actually be useful in it in addition to just being a whole heck of a lot more enjoyable the are this this is a private school is that correct the the one we I want him to go to in California yes and yeah public school now our finance is a significant concern for the family they it would be hard but we could you know we could make it happen yeah is there any possibility that part of your husband's digging his feet is actually sort of status protection over the fact that he doesn't want to face the money issue I don't think so you don't think so okay so you think okay so this is from everything that you can tell the I don't want them to go what's a joke out there but everything you broke off there but you said everything I can tell is just because he misses he would miss him and and once feels like it would damage that you wouldn't be able to have a relationship with him ah very controlling he's also very controlling in micromanages my understand it but to his credit he does wonderful things you takes him to play tennis and you take some scheme he does all these fantastic things with him but it's right he also micromanages him yeah okay I want to ask see you sort of indicated another issue which is that he feels like he quote may not be able to have a relationship with his son essentially if he lets go of the rope and and doesn't have an intense daily relationship with his son over these next three school years is that correct yeah mm-hmm so he sort of feels like it's going to get lost this relationship okay he'll miss out that he'll miss out on on this God he'll miss out okay yeah well what can I tell you he's selfish and totally unreasonable this is what this is so if I mean if finances are not the issue and and the son is wanting to leave badly he would be with his brother that correct well no but his brother would be exiting his brother the senior and so this year would have been great because they would have got that one year overlap but no he'll be gone but that's ok yeah where is your older son going to next fall he's still hearing back from colleges so it might be California it might be Washington okay does your husband miss him yes but they did not he's a super powerful person and he demanded to go to this boarding school and their their motive there would have been a huge conflict if he hadn't gone and they were divided as if oh he ran away from home you want to use a type that any good relationship they have now is because he he loves and there is no controlling him so he could never put him under his thumb and micromanage my older son right well you're you're in a very tough spot Kate and the I don't I don't like your odds the I would say that probably I mean there's a few tactics that you might use to try to maneuver the situation I think that that probably the best odds that you have would be to flood his circuit and basically to tell your husband all all the great things that you feel about him and then tell him that that you know one of those things is let's just talk I mean we want to feather this positive feedback in with a thread that gives us a negotiating angle on this particular issue so for example yet yeah as you say he does a great deal for his son and and he is obviously has a lot of concern for his family ie controlling anxious etc etc okay so the fact that he's a very very invested is your husband a hardworking person yes okay very hardworking very conscientious very invested very family-oriented you know really a father that really cares deeply about his kids and you know all you can do there is just a plus all the way and so how you've admired all not only those characteristics but then we feed him anecdotes I remember the time when you did this I remembered the time you did that so this is a you know five to five minutes soliloquy about what you you admire and love about the sky and what an outstanding person he is in so many ways okay and then we say but I really wish that you'd really reconsider this I just I I believe that that your son would be so much happier and I think that when when it comes down to it I think you care about his happiness above all and that's all you can do but that's I mean someone else might come up with something else but I think that hitting him there we're essentially and let me sort of explain so that you understand the principle and that other people can use it use this phone call as a as a template for their own negotiations of that are extremely difficult and sometimes how we are trying to go to the mat rather than threaten people we're actually trying to wage a very very clever war and there's in there motivational system which is that by reminding them and essentially lighting up all the circuits inside of them about where they can see where they have status with you okay so we signal that they have a great deal of status and then when we're finished we signal that if they don't do what we want them to do they're going to lose it they're going to lose that status but we have to we have to have the what they're not going to do or what they're resisting doing have a logical relationship between the status that they in fact have legitimately earned and now they're going to legitimately lose okay so that's why it is that the argument is your fantastic father concerned super conscientious you really care about us you really care about our family you really love your son blah blah blah outstanding you've done this I've seen you do that I'd seen the sacrifice you've made you're awesome okay however I really believe that your son would be better off and would enjoy his life more if he was able to go down there okay and we've missed him I'd miss him terribly and I understand that you would too but I really feel like you know at the end of the day you care about his happiness and that's the most important thing and I do and I think you do too and it's hard and we really miss them like crazy but I really want you to reconsider this okay I think that is as heavy as we can put our thumb on the scale that that's a that's a very significant threat okay and so I think that that's how at first pass that's how I would engineer that process okay so I would say I'd pick a time and say listen I just want to have a time when you sit down for just a little while and really talk about something and won't take more you know 15 minutes half an hour but I just want to talk about this whole thing and so he will be bracing himself for you arguing with him and trying to get the moral high ground right away and he'll be ready to argue and instead you flood his circuit that's going to be a shock that's going to be a surprise and so therefore potentially more impactful then after we fled a circuit then we go into what it is that I said and say you know that's you know we're not calling for a decision because in a panic he's going to revert to his existing decision so we said you know I don't need I don't want you to answer now I just want you to think about it okay and we let that sit and then when he goes away is you know his brain is sort of looking at that problem from all angles and and that he will infer that he's going to lose some status if he doesn't come through and he's got quite a bit to lose apparently because we just flooded him all right we don't let him wait too long you know we come back the next day like well what are you thinking I just really like to hear what you're feeling and thinking we try to we try to get to it before he can before that status glow wears all the way out and and now he backtracks and says don't forget it so let's you know I'd say about a 24-hour hook is about the time when we yank that line and see what we've got maybe we win maybe we lose but that that Kate I think is that's the best I can do for you okay okay okay that's fantastic thank you and all right very good I didn't I got no worries okay okay all right thank I'm falling yeah yeah Kate thank you very much for the phone call we really appreciate it thank you thank you all right okay and so of course we are live now here on the Facebook the fans of the be your jeans podcast you know what I didn't think of is that if we had callers how the Facebook group would not be able to hear the caller so I've been furiously typing in at what's the caller says so of course there was some back-and-forth between Kate and doctor Lyles so as reads pointed out you can open up blog talk radio in another window so if we have more callers you can hear that but we will continue with some of the questions that we have and of course if our listeners having questions you can type them into the chat chat screen and Lola will give those priority so have to allow our first question here mm dr. Lyle similar to politics I find looking up the news several times a day to be a huge waste of time and rarely providing useful information yet people make such a big deal out of quote being informed is this some kind of fitness indicator ah that's a great question and I absolutely think it's a fitness indicator it's yeah I think that's I think that's largely what it is it's also obviously people have differing amounts of anxiety about what's going on in the world and they they a tribute essentially the news to the the the news or the word new is what's new that's what news is and it's it's new information is what it is and so we are incessantly driven to always find out what the new information is that that's what your nervous system is is to device for taking in the changing circumstances in your environment and always updating your estimates of what the opportunities and threats are in the environment so in Stone Age village it's absolutely about finding out what on earth is happening with everybody right this minute what new things have occurred and we want to be updated so the the chief reason for being interested in what's going on in the world is because we're attempting to update our nervous system to the opportunities and threats that exist the so the news is very much designed to to tickle those circuits and make us believe that there are things that are happening in Washington or Sacramento or wherever else it is that have meaningful consequences for our lives which essentially they don't for for all intents and purposes they have almost nothing to do with your life so the however it can feel like it because there's a big badass dominance hierarchy there's tremendous amount of money clashing and special interests and all kinds of corruption and and big decision making with with taxpayer resources so there are big things happening but the net effect on your life is going to be whether decision goes to the left or goes to the right will be almost nothing the impact on yourself there will have enormous impact for a certain individual who might be the owner of a company that stands to gain a huge government contract or not in that case it may have a lot to do with you but for the rank-and-file citizen and has nothing to do with you and the however the news is is essentially a is piggybacking it's a need that exists inside the human nervous system to update their data about what the local conditions are in their environment and so that there's an incessant desire to keep on top of what that is some of us have sort of figured out that it's totally worthless enterprise and it's not worth any any time or energy at all but a lot of us haven't and so as a result of that more possibly more conscientious individuals are may signal their conscientiousness they may feel the need greater to sort of reduce their their possible lack of information about what's going on in the environment which would cause them more anxiety it would be interesting to see who on earth is watching the news my guess is it's people that are above average and intelligence because they they are they can listen and imagine they understand enough about government processes etc to to sort of feel like they have are having a feel for what is transpiring and also probably more conscientious so probably relatively bright relatively conscientious people are spending some more anxiety time sort of trying to keep track of what's going on in broad culture there you're wasting your time but but you don't know it well speaking of the news we have a commenter chef AJ says dr. can dr. Lisle comment so actually recently the news we found out that there was this big scam with some of the celebrities who were essentially doing a pay paid scam so that their kids could get into good colleges so this listener of chef ages asked him conduct a while comments on these celebrities who are getting arrested for buying their kids that's varied I only just heard about this today so I don't know much of what's going on but some apparently some businessman wealthy businessman paid a coach I think it was at Princeton or the University of Pennsylvania it was a Ivy League school paid this guy $300,000 in cash to offer his son a scholarship now that scholarship wasn't worth $300,000 this was all about this was a basketball scholarship so this was all about having your kid look like his jeans are better than they are okay so this is what this is so whatever else the celebrities are going to comment on this is all about trying to go into fancy schools because the fancy schools are in fact a fitness ticket so it'sit's the fitness indicator primarily or your mind it's really your big five and I do with I being first and then the conscientiousness and enough emotional stability second the the looks or the looks and everybody can tell just by looking at you in life but they can't tell about how elegant you are how pretentious you are which are great you know major trading cards in great deal of decision making in your life and so as a result of course people want to get their kids into Harvard and Yale and Stanford and Princeton and so forth and there's a hierarchy there you know you should have you should have paid you know you should have paid five hundred grand of the Harvard coach bar every coach would have been just a little bit smarter than the than the Princeton coach and then when they got caught with all the bluffing that they're doing it makes me wonder are these people just trying to signal casual mating uh what what are you thinking well they're they're spending so much time trying to bluff that their mate that their that their genetic value is higher than the others yeah whereas if they were really in for a pair bond wouldn't they be less deceptive about what they're looking for my misunderstanding yeah so this is them buying their kids though right right okay so this is definitely they want their kids to be in advantageous circumstances for mate bargaining whether it be casual mating or a pair bond doesn't make any differences basically they want their kids to have a fancy little stripe on their forehead then indicates they've got better genes than the guy that doesn't have the fancy stripe on his forehead now that's what's going on very interesting I bet yeah I mean obviously this has been going on for for as long as there had been you know institutions with cachet people have been buying their way in sleeping their way in doing you know whatever it is that they could to get in the so this is nothing new Under the Sun it just gets a little ludicrous when it when it I mean when a guy gives a duffel bag with $300,000 to so that your kid who obviously is pretty skilled or you wouldn't even be in the ballgame in other words the kids quite a good athlete it's just not quite an NCAA division-one Ivy League level athlete and so the kids obviously bright and so why not let this kid wind up where ever he would wind up and then have it on a signal of his own achievement no no some some shithead parent has to basically try to put their thumb on the scale and to bluff that their kid has got three percent fancier genes than he's got yeah it's no it's no surprise at all but it but we can laugh at it now that's fair all right very good let's see we have any other questions oh yeah and so this was actually yeah Ally brings up a good point which I read that they didn't just pay the students for sports they actually had they cheated on their SATs they paid they paid even though they didn't have good as eighty scores of course there's no end to it ie you're you're trying to make your genes look better than they really are and that's uh hey welcome to human life this has been going on in evolution forever animals are constantly evolving signals trying to bless the opposite sex and to think that the fancier than they are so this is just a sort of a ubiquitous feature of life so once they close these loopholes we're going to find some other loopholes basically go into it yeah you got it so yeah that's like stopping corruption of Washington ah no matter who is good good luck good luck to you yeah all right very good I want to welcome the new listeners here all right so our next question dr. loud this is hmm it's an interesting question because I know you love to talk about this and we'd love to hear about it but can we get the dug down load on the internal audience is the tone of the internal audience influenced by our own personalities as well as the personalities and feedback from others for example with critical conscientious and disagreeable parents and spouses lead to a similar voice from the internal audience and as a result can we the internal audience to speak nicer to us while still being honest and helpful these are this is a good question I don't think it's mmm I don't think it's quite such a passive system in other words I think your internal audience is a that that's a it's a term that was invented by a good friend of mine oh I'll say her name Melissa Scott Smith that I happen to notice listening the so Melissa actually invented that term and as soon as she said it it occurred to me that that was a more precise term than the term that that had essentially evolved out of cognitive therapy which is the internal critic and that's because the term critic would be fine if we use the term critic in its most broad objective definition which is like an art critic could be both praise giving praise and giving criticism equally and sort of an unbiased fashion that's in principle but the word critic carries with it a negative undertone which is the notion that it's going to be critical and it's not going to be focusing equally on praise as it does on criticism and the internal audience does it was on average inside the average human nervous system the internal audience is not there to be critical and negative towards the individual at all it's there as a feedback system in order to enhance purposes to to to increase the statistical likelihood of gist rival by improving your competitive standing so it wouldn't be giving you a bunch of negative feedback to browbeat you into anxiety and despair so that you wouldn't make efforts I mean that would make any sense so now so I believe that the Melissa's terminology of an internal audience is accurate and as soon as that was told to me and explained to me in that way I embraced it I completely believe in this now the the other issue is is that that the it's the same neural tissue it's still you it's your genes so the fact that you you have an experience of other people essentially talking to you or giving you feedback about your quote self that is generated from within it's still you still the same genes that built you so it's no surprise to me that the internal audience of the individual is going to have personality characteristics that are not dissimilar to the person themselves and so I can imagine that a person who is is extremely anxious and fastidious and and critical of mistakes in others for example could also be somewhat critical themselves I see that as a more likely possibility than that they would be very easy on themselves I can see that a person who would be very easy on other people would probably be relatively easy on themselves as well okay so like I did the real answer to your question is nobody knows okay there have to the best of my knowledge there are not anything like any kind of empirical interesting investigations of this of this notion that an internal audience has a personality to it the notion now is that it's a pesky hindrance to human well-being that's the fundamental notion and the notion is do that we can't get rid of it but we can talk back to it and we can argue with it and we can try to beat it into submission okay that's that that's the current psychotherapeutic notion of what's to be done with quote the internal voice I have a very different vision which is that that the internal audience is a feedback device of great importance in evolution and then when it's giving you negative feedback there's probably a very good reason for that and it was giving you positive feedback it's because you earned it and so the however the personality of that could you could it at any one time actually I believe that that for example you could be in internal audience could like it's an internal process could seem like as an internal audience feedback when in fact it may not be an internal audience feedback it's the imagination of the specific individual on the outside so for example let's suppose you have a hyper critical father okay the internal audience won't mimic the hyper critical father but you can have an imagination of a hyper critical father giving you feedback and that's actually that's not the same thing as an internal audience so that's a specific individual for example that could be ego trepang you okay and you're not actually doing it to yourself it's not arising out of an internal audience it's arriving out of the a an imagined dynamic or real dynamic between you and a real individual the anyway this is sort of wandering off a field but it's an interesting question and it's one that I think that there's probably many angles to most of which haven't even begun to even be close to empirically investigated my my personal work with this essentially directing people to the nature of the self-esteem mechanism and the characteristics of the internal audience is that when people do an excellent job and they at whatever it is that they that they need to be doing that's important to them in order to become more competitive when they do that if they are sufficiently diligent the internal audience turns up a smile it activates circuit inside your head that we call pride okay and when they then don't do so well the internal audience will activate a circuit that will say disgust with self-loathing in varying degrees and so these it isn't tied to being perfect or imperfect generally it's it's about whether or not you're doing a good job or a poor job with respect to the specific fundamental problems and actions that you need in order to become more competitive in the domains that you know that you are not getting as good a feedback as you probably should okay you self calibrate in those areas and you know that you by all accounts you should be getting better feedback than you are you are not doing so and your internal audience then watches your efforts carefully and if your efforts are praiseworthy it will praise you and if they are not praiseworthy they will criticize you the nature of how effusive or how brutal that praise and criticism are probably does have to do largely that innate personality characteristics of the person that's involved so then does that mean that someone who's not very conscientious pretty agreeable not maybe average intelligence maybe not super high intelligence would probably experienced less psychological stress yes surrounding internal audience I would expect so in other words they're just they're just not going to be that upset about it and and I think you know they're not accept that accept upset about mediocre performance they expect mediocre performance and they don't have that much anxiety because they don't have enough conscientiousness to drive a more highly competitive performance and probably we're going to find that that on average that works pretty well in other words not everybody needs to be trying to get at the top of dominance hierarchy so you're you know which animal is the happiest the Wolverine that tries to rule the whole thing or a Wolverine that carves out of space and says hey this is good enough and the truth is is that on average the average person is of average conscientiousness okay that's what it is has the average amount of ambition and therefore is reasonably satisfied with an average performance fair enough nothing nothing in the world wrong with that the the as you start to go up the scale and get higher and higher conscientiousness you are getting a more a more anxious nervous system that is that is worried about leaving chips on the table and the competitive problem it's worried about doing everything you can to reduce vulnerabilities and when it doesn't do it it feels the frustration inside the system that is actually inconsistent with what the norms are for the species it essentially overkill okay and and fair enough but those that and that internal process of that person watching themselves and their efforts and then quote fall that's almost certainly largely a derivative not of the person's learning history but of the person's genetics and this is all regardless of results what we're what you're after is actually the process and the hard work that comes in with it regardless of results yes exactly there there are undoubtedly just like any other characteristic any other the way any mechanism works there's going to be individual differences in how these work so I can watch myself for example a intermediate amount of work leaves me very satisfied with myself that wouldn't be true of Alan Goldhamer he has to work harder he just naturally has to work more hours in a day than I do or else he feels like he has his internal system basically feels like he's left too many chips on the table and he needs to go get more that's just how many acorns does a given squirrel need to squirrel away you know then I find with enough to get me through almost 95% chance to get me through the winter Alan wants to pass the 99 9 this just out is all right so let's see if there's any questions here let's see we've got oh yeah dr. Lao can you give us the Doug download on ADHD a couple episodes you talked about how the Jeffrey Miller was potentially thinking that that's certain passed a lot the weather what I called pathological conditions are actually just you know ends of the bell curves for certain personalities I've often wondered this - about a DD ADHD is it really like for example as a DD someone's just very highly open and you know essentially easily distracted because I got so many things they can be putting their focus on it's the question from Sahar is can you give us the Doug download on ADHD is a really a disorder or a result of combination to big five traits on let's let's look at a few a few possible things that would come to mind there first of all the big five is a a rather sloppy taxonomy of a whole bunch of individual characteristics that some of them will hang gatherin factor analysis it's probably it's not like a recipe that you have 67 percentile in conscientiousness and you have 33 percentile in agreeableness it's going to be that that there's going to be subdivisions in neural circuits that they will tend to hang together but the it's a it's it's not in such broad strokes it's much more let me give this let me say this for example let's suppose the concept of athleticism so somebody we could say okay that person is very athletic and and we could we could understand that that that description of that individual makes sense but they may be very fast or they may be very strong or they may have great endurance but those are very different things but the concept of athleticism holds it whether whatever those things they are they could be very high in one and very low in the others and we would still call them very athletic in other words somebody who's extremely strong but has no endurance and those speed is still a very athletic person as a result of the characteristic that they have now so ADHD the there's a couple of different ways to look at diagnosis like bipolar schizophrenia etc the even potentially we could talk about depression in this way so the question would be is there for example is bipolar disorder a just you know I don't know high instability high openness no it's not it's it's own thing it's actually a specific looking pathology there's something wrong okay this is like somebody's kidney it isn't on a general function of kidney there could be somebody could have a kidney of pretty high function and it could be functioning at the fiftieth percentile but it's badly diseased it's got cancer okay so there's a pathological problem even though the score sheet looks okay alright so in ADHD a question would be are we looking at just normal variant of human nature or are we looking at something pathological I think the question is probably open at this point my my thinking I have I have my own thoughts on this I look at it as a as a normal variant and let me let me explain why I think so first of all it's overwhelmingly diagnosed in males ten to one or nine to one ninety percent of all children that are diagnosed with ADHD are males okay now could it be that males just have a pathology happening ten times soften I don't think so that that's not typical of what we see in human nature we don't see that schizophrenia we don't see that in bipolar disorder we don't see that in you know these pathologies don't run ten to one's okay they do in breast cancer I and you know that's that's about that's about what you got to look for in medicine because sex difference I think a thing that large the an effect size that large so right away I'm suspicious that this is something else now when I look at ADHD the I look at rapidly shifting attention and rapidly shifting attention makes a hell of a lot more sense if you're a young man a thirteen year old young man and you are 200 yards from your mother and you're not yet with the men that are hunting you better have a rapidly shifting attention whereas if you're a little if you're a young young lady and you are you know within 30 feet of your mother you don't have to have such rapidly shifting attention because you don't need to be looking out for the Predators because you're around 12 other females and you're all very close together and you're piggybacking on each other's nervous systems so the the greater roving ranges of young men as they as they would go away and hunt and men when they men in general and hunter-gatherers absolutely go vastly further away and buy themselves more than females ever do so this is a difference in our species so they're going to have different neural architecture so you should actually have more anxiety in the mail about possible little cues in the environment of movement or noises that could indicate that there's some predator that could get you and you may be unprotected so now we stick a young boy an eight or nine year old in a classroom where the girls are fine they're never ADHD why well because the teachers talking to them okay and they're talking back and we're chattering away and that's what is that we do okay this is not a problem whereas if you're a young man you've got rapidly shifting attention and so are the are the other boys or all of them having troubles no but statistically likely all we have to do is think of a bell curve of how fast your attention is shifted as a result of some little little variant in the environment and therefore we would find in the end of that bell curve that it would be vastly more likely to be inhabited by a young males than by young females so the notion is when that's being diagnosed why is it being diagnosed okay it's being diagnosed in school okay well what is school what school is a totally unnatural environment and so as a result we're diagnosing something because a small percentage of our young men almost never are young women it's our young men that are having a problem watching a teacher write some stuff on a board and focus solely on that as their attention keeps drifting around the classroom for everything that's moving we say oh boy that's bad you've got ADHD you know we're going to drug your brand into oblivion so that you don't do that anymore okay what a mistake let's let's see whether or not that ADHD is actually pathological let's put them out in an environment with a bunch of challenges in the environment let's just find out whether or not that's actually a pathological condition my argument is I don't believe it is a pathological condition I think it's a it's a variant of a perfectly reasonable survival reproductive strategy and so that that's that's what I think and so I would and I would never try to change the neuro chemistry of a young person so that they could be more successful in school that that's insane and the fact that the school would like it better that way to have a drugged-out zombie rather now have it ADHD kid too bad okay the school can just suffer get a problem is let's not try to morph our young boys into a situation that is convenient for any institution or people in that institution or for anybody else for that matter the truth is that's just the neural circuits of that individual and I don't think there's any evidence that that's Kappa logical it may be very inconvenient in the modern environment but that doesn't make it a pathology that's that's the Doug download on that amen preach all right all right we got time for a couple more maybe one more all right so mmm Sarah's asking what about autism the ratio is one to four female-to-male a good question and the and once once again that that is now that's looking more like something that could be pathology okay and actually I think and again though it's going to depend on the I think that you could have as I'm struggling with this the the autism you know is a very wide range of unusual behaviors and so there are artistic behaviors that are clearly scientists severe dysfunction and in fact a lot of what is autism is very severe dysfunction I don't think there's no nobody in their right mind that is observed autism a close range or on videotape would would have anything other anything to say other than that is a those are misfiring and dysfunctional neural circuits so the question would be as you get into the higher end of quote autistic functioning so when you start to get as burgers like folks that are that miss you know miss social cues etc and what do we think of that well I don't see them as lining up on the big5 I see them is actually missing some important cues that are natural do I it's not a it's not progressive it's not going to get worse it just is it's kind of like it's like being born with any other kind of you know you know intermediate or mild dysfunction you may have a lazy eye you know I'm saying you may be partially blind in one eye the that's that's what that looks like to me it doesn't mean that a person can't be very successful in a in a variety of ways it just means that but that's not the same thing to me as some of the more debilitating major psychopathologies like a schizophrenia or bipolar those can be way tougher on an individual whereas a whereas a a mildly autistic individual again can function very highly but I don't think that I don't think we're looking at a variant of normal function I think we're looking at a at a dysfunction whereas I'm not so sure I'd be less likely to think that's true about ADHD but you know I'm I would be open to evidence if anybody would look at either these things from a more valid ecological perspective passing is it is there any accuracy I think I heard somewhere mmm I can't remember where about people with autism their internal audience does not function similarly to to say a person under or a typical person yeah this is why it is though we have to understand that it's a wide range of people stuff Oh aptly there are two autistic folks that that do not seem to have what we would call a theory of mind like they're not reading what it is that you're experiencing and in the same way that a normal brain does and these are extremely important capabilities in humans in order to be able to effectively modulate your behavior in order to be more competitive for survival and reproductive problems so it absolutely is dysfunctional in a way that I would I would argue that ADHD isn't ADHD oh you're having trouble in school so what okay show me whether the ADHD aged person is actually having really real problems for example in establishing romantic relationships over people that aren't ADHD I don't know that that's true okay so I would I would argue that that you could you could you could put together some scientific investigation and look at this from what I would call an ecologically valid perspective and really try to figure out whether or not what you simply have there is a problem of sticking a young boy in an ecological situation for which he wasn't designed different issue testing all right we're not glad what do you think one more question and one more all right one one more okay all right let's see if we have any callers here okay so we're good all right we'll go we got one about a business partner we got a short one here yeah okay what do you think about this one okay all right this is a sex related question so we'll just go out and good okay dr. Lyle when when and why do women pretend to enjoy sex and fake orgasms if they have to pretend doesn't that mean that the partner does not qualify no it doesn't mean that the partner doesn't qualify it means that they didn't qualify tonight know the truth of the matter is there'd be plenty of interesting reasons why women might fake orgasms they they may be in a relationship where they they want to be in the relationship but orgasms are tricky and there they they differ I mean women differ amazingly from female to female and how easy it is to for females to have orgasms and they also differ from you know hour to hour day to day and and so therefore this is this can be tricky business and it's it's uh it clearly is a fitness indicator in other words it's it's clearly a mechanism inside the female potential to signal to her that this is a good partner I don't think there's any doubt about that okay the there's no reasonable doubt we could could scratch our heads and try to figure that out but there's all kinds of evidence that cues that this is true in the scientific literature already so women for example orgasm far easier with males handsome that they just do okay so it's like and if we then we say what is that subjective well the sperm motility of the male if you the sperm motility the male is is a legitimate positive correlation with whether or not that female orgasms so I got a cat well one thing after the next we can stack up the evidence so there are four and males know this intuitively in other words if the female quote enjoys herself if she really likes it if she's orgasmic we are we then make the assumption that we qualify and so therefore as a result if the female is trying to signal to us that we qualified but is not in fact orgasmic we can see a perfectly valid reason for her to fake it okay because she's wanting to give that the guy the positive feedback that she feels but she just doesn't happen to be that reflex doesn't happen to be activating so the and then there's things like keeping a marriage together for the kids and you know having a good deal financially and faking an orgasm versus faking a whole relationship really right oh yes so there's an awful lot of perspectives that we could analyze this from but I forget what the original question was but I think I'm more or less answered it yes do they yeah does the way to if they have to pretend doesn't that mean that the partner does not qualify no it does not in other words that that woman may not be in in their sexual interactions the she may not be orgasmic orgasmic easily may be very difficult for her may be impossible so that doesn't mean he doesn't qualify as a pair of bond partner it just means that that they happen to be in a bind there there's also women that it's very difficult for some women to achieve orgasm effort and as a result of that that doesn't mean the guy doesn't qualify it means that nobody would qualify or almost nobody we qualify so in other words so there's no that that doesn't be that isn't what that means but it could okay that's how you look at that well we will we'll leave it to more data yeah there you go how's this an interesting question do you think that guys who are casually mating will care less about a woman satisfaction in bed I can't imagine that that isn't true okay so I I don't I don't recall actually reading evidence on that particular question and the person on earth that would know would be David buss and I just can't I don't remember and somebody might be able to find that but I think the answer to that almost has to be less it has to be true it it may not be true obviously in any given instance but it is there a correlation that that we would expect that to be true the answer would be absolutely I would expect that correlation causal mating by its definition is short and intermediate term so therefore the male is attempting to you know he doesn't know it that he's attempting to impregnate her and get the hell out of town okay that's that's different not looking for repeat with creepy customers right exactly so therefore I would have expected it would have been lower conscientiousness versus casual or pair pop strategy really the conscientiousness would be the indicator right I think that's probably also true and agreeableness is probably also in there okay so there's more than one factor but if we just use casual versus pair bond strategy as a predictor I think we would find that that correlation would hold okay all right well I think yeah and the ally makes good points that taking antidepressants also creates sexual performance issues ever difficulty of cheese orgasm so on that note we will finish if we've reached the climax to the show
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