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Episode 148: Forgiving and letting go, Lonely older single women, Shy vs bold men
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all right good evening everybody it's Nate G here along with dr. Doug long dr. Lyle how you doing this evening excellent how you doing I'm doing pretty good we've got a full crowd here for holidays all right and our listeners are now this is the week before Christmas and for those of our listeners who celebrate Christmas it's going to be an interesting time where you get to see family friends and the holiday is always fun and so today's show is we're kind of covering some new topics that we haven't covered before and getting back to some of the older topics that we have before versus with regards to dating so today's topics are about forgiving letting go the older single women whether or not they're going to end up lonely and alone and shy versus bold women those were those were the words of the listener who emailed me the lonely older single mmm all right Cheyenne the bold men so let's take it away doctor top barrel right dr. Lyle my wife a hard time forgiving and letting things go she's been burned many times including being cheated on by ex-boyfriends this seems to affect the way she forgives just about a thing including problems she's had with family what are some suggestions that have for her truly let things go and to forgive more easily sounds like a hyper conscientious person to me oh the man is saved [Laughter] I don't know visit a Buddhist temple take a trip to somalia least in Mexico something deucey is this the word world full of mindfulness now listen this is pretty much genetic and it's unlikely to change so you might be able to change a specific open loop about a specific grievance maybe but probably not the the if I was to give the sort of standard and feedback I'd say go visit a decent cognitive therapist and do bunch of three-column work on this and try to grind your way down through and the details of the various grievances but you're not going to change this lady's personality this says this is what this is so she's got a disagreeable streak in here obviously and it's it's a grudge packing gene that remembers all too well when she's when there's been think things that have gone against her I mean the reason why this chip is in there is because there's a disagreeable streak so I had I had a lady that had been cheated on by her husband 25 years earlier and she was still just in a rage and and I have you know there's a like I said a few times a year when I I really get into it I take the gloves off with somebody and I took the gloves off with this lady really out of out of compassion for her husband and also to try to help her so I she was highly intelligent and she must have been I don't know at 55 and this was I was probably 45 at the time so I was a kid and but I'm looking at this and I couldn't believe it there was there was no mercy and and she had she had done everything that she could possibly do to get it even and and this this guy had twisted himself into a pretzel for 25 years trying to somehow even even it out for her impossible so I'm not going to say that this lady is a proxy for everybody with a forgiveness problem and perhaps it's biased my own edge judgment about this but I certainly understand where this comes from and this comes from a specific personality and and you're not going to change a general personality trait what you can change in people and what confuses people about what you can change and what you can't is that is the fact that people do change they change their mind about things they they can change from being a liberal to a conservative or from a conservative to liberal probably more difficult to do that the they can they can change you know from being a devout religious person to an atheist it's unlikely to go the other direction in other words but people are capable of change and sometimes those change changes look pretty significant but if we look carefully we're not changing their personalities we're changing some very narrow specific set of thinking about a specific topic we're not changing a wide-ranging personality characteristic and so something like a person that quote has a hard time forgiving we're not gonna we're not going to change that all that we could change is we might change her the woman's thinking about a very specific grievance that is quite possible and there's going to be times when with a you know possibly with the skilled CBT oriented therapist god forbid stay away from the dynamic people we will work Inuk up 17 layers deep into it all the other grievances and the reasons why you have a grievance remembering problem all having to do with some terrible thing that happened to you when you were you know 18 months old so no we we stick with somebody sensible as a guide and we grind our way through or we use probably if there be tools that are going to be online or available in books where we reason our way through through through some exercises trying to get to the root of of why it is that this is so you know what was unfair about it why you know is that what what what are all the inferences or silent assumptions that we're making about the fairness etc etc so like I said you may be able to get some help about a specific grievance but you're not going to change this person's personality now for forgiveness in general if it's because some bring things and if it's so bad what's stopping them from just smoke a bunch of weed losing their memory now problem so far unfortunately if they've got a big grievance it's coded all of the brain in multiple spots so we would have to be major brain damage so that that's not going to fly but it was good thinking though Nathan so can I create it out of the box ok all right so on to the lonely older women yeah and by the way we have a caller on hold so caller stay up on the line we're going to get to a couple of questions then we'll take take the caller yep all right dr. Lyle I'm a successful professional female of or have not yet been opposed yet but I'm finding that the penetration more of a cost than a benefit I'm somewhat of an intervertebral qahal and I can enjoy a good book I have two amazing successful children good friends I've been divorced over 16 years traditionally I end up dating men who are date your whore be 7 to 5 5 to 7 years younger than I am not purposefully just up this way but I find that the men I date want to my peláez my time and then they complain because I'm too busy to see them or the expectations as to wanting to be number one in my life I however find it so much easier to be on my own and not listen to or put up with their complaining and seemingly their desire to be mothered and therefore I just don't date I have my home rear my retirement pension and investments I just can't seem to find stuff when a date that I really enjoy being with where are all the fifth year old fit and healthy men who have some valuable resources as I don't mind being alone however I'm wondering if I'm destined to be alone and come to terms with it wondering if due to the fact that I have had my children and I have my resources that I'm not interested in any suitable men that come my way because it's way easier to be on my own and do what I want to do what's happening genetically to attractive divorced and successful women over the age of 50 we're getting some we're bullying strike after strike tonight the pre-christmas special well kind of what's happening to them is what's happening to everybody else okay the truth is is that you're facing the magic 10% so obviously the this person is a very solid citizen of the of the human genetic code and it's a good solid negotiator which is why it is that the quote men that she just seems to wind up with are younger than she is you have any idea how unusual this is this is a this is is very unusual and relationships between men and women where the men are younger are exceedingly likely to fall apart okay we and so what for for a number of reasons so we can we can see that what this is to even get something going like this it is probably a symmetrical with respect to their overall mate value and so these relationships don't last for for those reasons so this looks like somebody biting on weak knees Delta and then things not working out which is fine no note no reason in the world why why someone can't live their life that way that's fine but when we look at we look at we're looking at a person that is basically saying May I can't find the magic 10% where's where's the guy that's so great that I really really like him and he really likes me answer can't find one it's exactly the same problem the entire market finds unless you happen to be in the top you know five percent of attractiveness and then you've got different sorts of problems those are what we call good problems too too many good alternatives can't decide okay which I will look case we run into someone who has those problems but not very often now the so what do you do about this what you do what everybody else does about it so the people differ and essentially how hot their engine is or what their needs are socially for partners so some people are inherently very very rewarded by having someone in their life and close to them ensuring the experience and so those people are more likely to be paired up with people even if they're even if the trade doesn't seem that great part of the trade is the fact that it is just another human the other people are not like that so this is a this is a very stable up you know intelligent introvert that can entertain herself kind of all by herself has her kids essentially there's you know she's got all these little loops shut she doesn't have a lot of undone business that needs to be done and it likely doesn't have a very hot sexual engine so if she had a hot engine there would be a lot more going on despite the fact that it quote didn't look like that great it's okay it's still still worth it you know the guy hits like like seven little stars out of ten good enough even though it takes nine out of ten stars to get a pair bond seven out of ten stars is enough to have a fling does not doesn't sound like that for this individual so that's that's fine that's just an individual that may not burn that hot and mad arena huge individual differences in people in that arena and there are four huge differences in how selective impatient people are about letting people into their life so what's the solution solution is the same thing it is for everybody and that is that you have to run a CB on the statistical likelihood that any efforts that you make in this regard or likely to yield any results so many people will cycle in and out of the efforts of the dating market just because they they will have you know it's just like a gambler of any kind if you hit a losing streak you feel like and why bother and you may walk away from the table and that etc so then you go back to the table win a few hands and now you're back in it you settle in and roll up your shirt sleeves for a while so this is exactly how you expect any animal behavior to work it's going to be subject to the the local or recency condition to the payoff matrix so the so I would expect this person given their inherent inherent stability to to basically opt out of the market for significant periods of time not put much energy into it and then because there's a natural chip inside of people's head to to share the relationship with someone in an intimate fashion then we watch her circle back around and then make some efforts okay and that's kind of what's happening the you know perfectly reusable move as you look at this as a as a sort of global problem is to have what I call a lion in the water so that you you're making some periodic moderate investments in in finding somebody but you're you know you're not you're not necessarily making all the efforts that you could make the it pays to have a strategy that makes sense about how you're going to find these people which is what I'd call fish where the fish are so so if you have a particular set of interests or your you have a your particular personality and which in this case looks like intelligent stable conscientious etc not particularly open the if you have that that personality then advertise it and put it on put it on a few put it on a few websites where there's in you know where you're very clear about who it is that you are and what it is that you're looking for so that people can read your ad and someone who reads this and find you very interesting because he he can smell that can sniff that you are possibly a serious excellent partner will be then motivated to write to you okay so and then you have to get good at looking at the flotsam and jetsam that comes along with it and just ignoring it so no problem that's how you do it keep your line in the water and if you do that spending a very small amount of time investing in that process then you might you might hit something or you might not but at least you have for a few dollars a month you've got your line in the water to help you maybe find somebody excellent for your life that's how I would do it fantastic I want is how I do do it doctor I go over can you go over what week needs Delta beams yes weak knees Delta is the this when when there's a difference in mate value particularly sexual attractiveness between male and female that the female gets weak in the knees and so she's more likely to roll over for casual mating strategy in in that instance so when the female is not feeling over awarded in the sexiness Department then her her knees are strong she's not going to get pushed over okay not feeling weak in the knees and the male is going to have to work harder at at essentially displaying his inner beauty and therefore his ability to generated willingness to share resources in order to slowly charm his way past her defenses her sexual defenses which is what a female is a sexual defence device basically so yeah I'm asking for that to take every girl to the gym and do a bunch of squats and they have weak knees know about me all right let's move on before we get in any more trouble well I also want you to clarify to our newer newer listeners because we've got over this for a little time actually but can you can you describe to new listeners what the magic 10% is again I sure will and incidentally your audio isn't the greatest that we're having a little slippage on that but it's just good enough for my for me to understand you the what the magic 10% is is that that what humans are seeking to do in in the mating arena and actually in all arenas is that what people are doing is there a great deal of what human life is about exchanges and so that they're the primary exchange processes that are involved in in human life are in romance friendship and then what would we call trade or business processes these are the three fundamental relationships that exist independent of family relationships these really relationships types of relationships are always operating under the pressure of competition the the job of the human is to optimize the relationships that they have in order to optimize the resources that they gain from those relationships for two overarching problems which are survival problems and reproductive problems the the constraints that the individual is operating under our time and energy so you're the brain is designed in order to make make behavioral choices that will result in the optimal time and energy expenditure for the maximum return on the investment of that time and energy in order to optimize the statistical likelihood of gene survival that's that's what a brain is of a human or any other animal it's effectively a gambling machine and it's it's essentially handicapping the different behavioral options that it can see and it's deciding in real time what what muscles move in which muscles not to move ultimately what the what the creature is doing whether it's a human or an aardvark is its its contracting and relaxing muscles and as it contracts some muscles and relaxes other muscles that what results is behavior that has consequences for its survival and reproduction its feelings emotions and sensations are so a sensation would be would be something that you taste and emotion would be something that you would the excitement that you would feel before you would taste something okay so an emotion is somewhat different process than a sensation the emotions and sensations are both signalling devices to give the organism evidence for what what the the brain believes is the value for survival reproduction of the given asset that it's seeking so now this all sounds very technical but it can really be broken down pretty simply so some girl has got to two dates to the prom so one of them or two two offers first two offers to come in is an amazingly bold and ridiculously miscalibrated doofus that that she that everybody finds unattractive including her the other is from the captain the football team is Hampton handsome and super popular and she herself was like I don't know homecoming princess or some damn thing so now who does she choose what she does is that she follows her feelings and her feelings are based on her brains computations as to the mate value of those two different organisms so the mate value is a sum total assessment of which organism will be better to have sex with and therefore habits child the so she looks at the two and doofus doesn't look like it's going to be Bill Gates and a billionaire either it's not even very smart and so as a result she just can't see very very much value in other words she's passing on those characteristics within the context of the circumstances that that individual can offer her and it just doesn't look like a very good deal okay on the other hand captain the football team looks like a great deal and so as it turns out that her nervous system then generates a motivation in order for her to close the distance between herself and the captain of the football team and to interchange in processes that will ultimately result in a trade of sexuality that would result in a pregnancy and result in a little star for the next generation the this is what life is so whether we're talking about mating choices or we're talking about friendships same thing okay girl has two possible girlfriends to have one of them is unattractive and she is also difficult to deal with and she is also not very smart and she's also dishonest okay the other one is attractive but fortunately not quite extractive as our girl so therefore she's not going to be a competitive problem and yet she's Pleasant friendly reliable smart and honest okay she will find that she quote likes the second girl and quote dislikes the other girl this is nothing other than a preference that is derived from computations put into the brain by the genetic code as algorithms have been built in order to make precisely these decisions so that the organism statistically optimizes its likelihood of survival so that's friendship then we're going to have trade okay so I'm almost lost here Nathan but you helped me back I can't if I get weave this thing back alright so now we're going to have trade processes so all things being equal we have two job offers one of them pays you know a hundred thousand a year the other one pays fifty all things being equal which one do we choose the one that gives us the better deal which gives us more resources for finding mates or raising children etc so all of it comes down to genes survival and so then even after you can no longer reproduce genes or if you don't want to reproduce genes your feelings are still being run by the very same algorithms girl might be determined that she does not want to have children but her stone-age brain wired by her DNA still wants to mate with the captain of the football team as opposed to doofus okay now where were we magic 10% so in all betrayed by in the magic 10% right there we go now we're done now so what the magic 10% is is that you don't want to trade unless it's a deal you don't get any excitement so when you go to Macy's and they say they have a sign that says everything today is full price look nobody's too interested you'll buy it if you have to because you really need a new belt for the wedding you're going to but the bottom line is is you're not excited about it but if we walk in there and it turns out that it says you know inventory clearance for fall you know everything's you know 70% off you find yourself excited because now it's a better deal okay so what you're doing is you're looking at your options in mating and friendship and in trade and what you're attempting to do is to get the best deal that you can get and when you get let's suppose you get a deal that's you know you have an okay deal okay well you're not that excited about it then you have another deal that comes in it's a little bit better well and I have a little more bit more excited okay now there's a much better deal that comes in so you had a job offer 50,000 job after at 52,000 other job offer at 55,000 and then one comes in at 70 now you're really excited okay so this is this is the magic 10% and trading in the romance department is when you feel like you you are getting 10% better than you got coming to you so you feel like you're a seven you feel like the other person's an eight okay that happens that generates excitement and you feel like you've got a deal the other person remarkably sees themselves as a seven and sees you as an eight and so it's going to turn out that when bold people feel like they are being over rewarded that is the magic 10% and so now it generates a mutual little excitement of wow you're giving me such a great deal I'm feel so lucky okay that that is that the generation that is the genesis of romance and so the obviously people at the very top of the food chain it's succeeding it's it's not it's not hard for them to get great deals that are just so objectively outstanding that they're there in relationships all the time but they still struggle because it's it's they also have to look for the magic 10% they're not looking for it and looks in brains they're looking forward in possibly finances accomplishment and then a beautiful jigsaw puzzle of two personalities that could you know it makes some beautiful magic so everybody work no matter where you are in the food chain if you're a one or you're a ten you this excitement is generated when you feel like you're getting a deal and that's uh so that's what romance is romance is essentially generated by mutual compatible delusions about the other person great value we are going to take the last question about shy versus bold men next week because now we have two colors on Hoult's we're going to take our first caller yeah the caller who got called in at the beginning of the show the caller what's your name where you calling from hello this is Brian from Jacksonville Bryant Brian or Bryant that's what he said last time Brian Brian Brian from Jacksonville okay very good all right what's up Brian yes sir I'm just calling in I had two comments and two two related questions if that's okay yeah well we'll see we'll see if we could give you the second comment well Trixie what the first one is first alright go ahead yes sir sounds good I just wanted to call and I asked I called in about I was taking the CPA exam you gave me some tips about take and I wasn't really sure if I be able to therefore test I wasn't sure if I'd be able to pass yeah you know even the first test I was looking at so I just I just want to call him to say I applied your strategies and I got the results back in last night and I passed it um ten points above the above the score I needed 200 all right on to the neck on to the next step of hell Brian good job thank you for that and then my second my second comment was I know a couple shows back you had someone call it who was he was super conscientious he wasn't it wasn't a hundred percent sure if his child was his you know what they say you know mom mommy's baby daddy baby daddy's baby you know and I and you are advised advisement try and just you know see if you could just let it ride it and then talk to his significant other if he had to about getting a team a test we kept bothering them I didn't I just wanted to point out that you don't need the moms arm permission to get DNA test you can either get one online or even a lot of drugstores they have a bow we should go down get the DNA test to swab your cheek you swab the kids cheek you send it in and they'll see if your mask genetically so you know if that's bothering him they wants to avoid a blow-up you know that that's one way he can size stuff the whole thing for about less than a hundred dollars maybe a hundred dollars like that brilliant there yellow just okay yeah I did not know that yeah yeah thank you and then my last question is about the hedonistic treadmill and it's basically this theory that we have a set point of happiness and you know they've done studies and they found that someone who's won the lottery and someone who's a parent who's lost both her legs after a certain amount of time like two years are here or something like that they both returned to the same baseline point the happiness and that's influenced by whatever it's influenced by but it's basically you can't be permanently happy or more miserable than you usually are generally speaking so my question is if you first of all I want to see if you agree with that and then if you do then what's the point of any optimizations we're making here right so if we can trade up as far as income or made make value or anything really if we all go back down to that baseline point I mean other than trying to extend our lives so we have more of the games play I guess what's like what's the point of any of this I mean I know that's a little bit I allistic but you know I feel like it's a legitimate question that is a magnificent question and it's it's not one that I ever considered and I am aware of that research and and for some reason it was it was vaguely interesting to me but now that now that you articulate what the what some of the conclusions or inferences are as a result of that research my bullshit meter course goes off immediately because it's it's not true the absolutely your your happiness will change substantially dependent upon what your circumstances are so let's let's take an extreme so that we can really see it okay so let's let's I've got a cat I got two of them here and what we're going to do is we're going to drop them off in a Calcutta ghetto okay and now they're going to live in the ghetto and everything is going to be hell and it's going to stink and there's going to they're going to get beat up and all kinds of bad things that are going to happen now it turns out that they are wily enough despite their cushy upbringing that they managed to survive and live to an old age and then then die okay the question is did were they was it all the same was it date what's the difference what's the difference between that living in this house of course it's different it's unbelievably different okay now so it's going to turn out that that of course circumstances I mean it's very clear to me that when I'm in a relationship that I don't want to be in but I am you know through obligation and and what do you call it compassion okay that what I'm what's happening is is I'm not sure how I want to handle this okay so I was in I was in relationship for thirteen years that I didn't want to be in and there I was okay basically deer-in-the-headlights not knowing what to do and I was not happy when I got out of that relationship I was much happier and I remained much happier you know for the for the next 20 years there's no question that that's true so it also depends upon how it is how sophisticated you can be about measuring somebody's happiness and overall circumstances can change circumstances can change dramatically so what whatever this research is showing it is what you're seeing is you're seeing a limitation of a pencil and paper test to actually measure human life satisfaction it's not necessarily that good they don't necessarily they aren't able to necessarily ask the questions in the way that they'd get at this issue so so that someday somebody will will actually peer into what they're what they're referring to is interesting and what their the truth of the matter is is that when you have for example something very bad happened the the loss that's associated with it is traumatic in other words it's bad your your nervous system screams that you just you just went through a big down hit in terms of your survival and reproductive success you know Millie that with some love of your life ran off with it ran off with the milkman you're devastated okay but we're going to find that we will find that you will actually regain your feet and you will once again be in a process of attempting to optimize your situation and the shock of that is going to is absolutely going to wear off that shock is there for a reason just as acute pain is there for a reason to warn you but there's being tissue damage so is emotional pain there to warn you of significant losses so no problem and and then very often what's going to happen is that the person's general circumstances of life in terms of a person who's lost their legs or some such thing it turns out they didn't lose all their friends they didn't lose all of their financial support they didn't lose their intelligence they a great deal was maintained and it's going to turn out that their circumstances and if they're not in physical pain in many ways their circumstances are not appreciably different even though they could be quite a bit different on some superficial levels on some other very important levels they may not be that much different so I understand how they could get also noticeable impact on moods is going to be a dynamic process generated by change so the the most acute happiness moments are definitely going to be noticeable as a result of some change and then what we're going to see after the change there's going to be a habituation to that change so all of these things are true in other words there's there's a lot of truth in what it is they're talking about that the the inferences that yours that you're discussing here and I have seen people make these inferences and in discussions have turned out are going to turn out to be as a result of some very incomplete science now a corollary to this was the research research that you will see that says that money doesn't make any different paths and a low baseline so this this was a very interesting finding that was touted you know for the last 25 or 30 years that in the in the bottom quintile as you made more money it had a significant impact on your happiness but after you hit the 20th percentile in the United States it was not related that turns out to be absolutely false so if you ask the questions in just the right way or you cherry-pick the correlation coefficients it can look like it but when you ask the questions properly it doesn't turn out that way it turns out incredibly that the correlation coefficient between increased income and green creased life satisfaction will actually hold and continue on this in the same direction in in a very close linear relationship all the way between the difference between 150,000 a year and 500 okay so nobody you know this is like heresy to the notion that that income does not impact happiness it absolutely does impact happiness and it has a major impact on happiness and as we step back it's obvious why this would be true and the reason is the person's circumstances around resources are better okay the and so that being the case all kinds of things are better and as a result people people might say wow let's look at this gee money doesn't buy happiness really because people are sure as hell working awfully hard to get that thing that isn't giving them any happiness and then let's look at the why when would make that inference and that's because it's not omnipotent okay it's not omnipotent there's all kinds of people with all kinds of money that are miserable there's all kinds of people with not much money that are damn happy okay it's not omnipotent but the correlation coefficient is there it is not omnipotent that over all circumstances you know that that that circumstantial change is necessarily going to have an omnipotent force on a person's happiness because a lot of how happy a person is in general is embedded in their DNA so people that are more disagreeable are less happy it's just going to be how it's going to be they're going to feel like they're getting cheated chiselled not honored enough not enough esteem etc and it says so in general those people are not going to be a set people that are super agreeable aren't necessarily going to be the happy why they're going to get exploited a lot okay they're going to feel guilty that people are always going to be asking them for more so when we start picking our way through the Big Five we're going to find out that Big Five combinations are going to give rise to individuals that are some of which whose baseline is happier than others but don't ever close your eyes the obvious truth and that is that better circumstances result in better states of the brain which result in a better life experience and they're absolutely worth working for alright great question Brian thanks for asking Brian thank you very much for the phone call really appreciate it our next caller mm caller thanks for calling in to the show to be your jeans program what's your name where you calling from hi this is Molly from Alaska ha speaking of welcome Owens's do you like it up there I do I just born and raised here and I I mean it's a little chilly out but I can't complain we just had a pretty good earthquake so that was wrote out his son sure well what's going on Molly so I this morning I was all caught up on beat your jeans so I was listening to inquiring minds on the way to work and they were talking about chimerism I'm not sure if I'm saying that right but that's the other Democrat chimerism chimerism I don't know what that is um it's when someone is born with like double DNA so they're two people in one got it okay I've heard of this but I don't know anything about it so tell us more so I really don't know any about it either and this this might be sort of silly question I guess because I don't know what I'm talking about but I got curious listening to this episode so anyways there we're talking about it and apparently this I guess we'll call it a genetic condition for conversations sake is actually a lot more common than was previously thought and apparently so they were talking about how pregnant women sometimes can adopt chimerism through because they obviously like there's different DNA inside them during pregnancy so my question is if that happened so if you became a chimera through pregnancy would you see a change in behavior or would that woman eventually like adopt the behaviors of the child's father because now she has his DNA essentially like become a part of her DNA no um no this is yeah this is uh there's some science fiction that's going on inside here so yeah I know nothing to worry about the whatever it is that this process is that this is not nothing - nothing to be worried about okay and so I think I I suspect the answer to this question my second part of the question is no but would you think that a personality disorder like dissociative identity would like could that be influenced by chimerism yeah the what this thing whatever it is that you're referring to some bizarre situation where sometimes there's two people inside of one person I heard about this and I don't I think I was so astounded by it I'm sure it's quote not common so somebody somebody's making a little comment saying it's more common when we thought well we didn't even think was possible at all so if in fact it is possible it's it's probably ringing the bell at less than one of the billion okay so that's how that's work now the so and it's not going to be sucked up by the mom and her turn into one because she's got a you know a pregnancy so that's out so now where we are is we forget what the other question was what do you write dandy oh yeah no it's got nothing to do with this so it's going to be I'm not an expert in an extremely rare psychopathology but a great deal of these so called dissociative identity disorders and so on and so forth there's some there's some funny there's funny business all over the DSM as as people get compete with doctors compete with each other to talk about bizarre stuff that they've seen because that that makes them a fancier doctor okay so so I you know I have most of the people that I've met in institutions somewhere along the line will say oh yeah they've seen a multiple personality well that's bogus I don't even think such a thing exists okay so yeah what there is is there's highly unstable people that also may be very open they may also have some Pro for all we know they may be schizophrenic which is absolutely real of course so but there's there's all kinds of storytelling I don't know what did quote dissociative identity disorder would look like although I probably talked up 50 people that have had that diagnosis right they're staring in their chart so I never saw anything that looked like anything other than a then then you know a funny-looking personality that would line up on the big five just fine remember the big five when we start sliding these things around we can get some pretty funny looking stuff you might take somebody super open super disagreeable low conscientious lookout we've got a super creative wildly thinking sociopath okay what is that you know we make them sue or unstable super disagreeable we got something that looks like a borderline and you can call it that okay so when you start when you start sliding these extremes around you can get all kinds of funny-looking things and give them fancy labels because they'll do some bizarre behavior okay so I've you know I've had extensive experience in criminal justice where the people that are locked up are our extreme people in terms of personalities so I have interviewed and done psychological evaluations on literally thousands of these people and being done some pretty bizarre stuff I had one one woman dated a guy for a couple of you know a few days and then this is obviously what you would call a borderline unstable disagreeable in this case low conscientious and she drove her car through his plate-glass window of his house he's lonely today this is uh this is this is what it was okay and there was no big connection but she thought that they had such a wonderful connection the night they met at the bar and a few nights later he wasn't calling her back and that's what happened so I mean I can I had a sociopath that that slaughtered his father cut him up into bits and Parkton and burned him and buried the body right out in front of the dad's trailer where he had gone in order to steal money okay it's like it's like not not very creative not very hard to find him and that was that took a police dog about two minutes so I've seen all kinds of stuff and these people have carried all kinds of fancy diagnosis and that somebody out there was going to tell me oh no Doug you're ignorant I've seen a dissociative identity disorder maybe you have or maybe what you can call it whatever you want what you've seen is a highly open highly unstable person with some with you know probably disagreeable in low conscientiousness that is pulling the wool over your eyes in order to cover up some kind of nasty behavior that they're doing a great example of this by the way in film a nice example beautifully played with there's a movie and I can't remember but the actor was Edie Norton it was Ed Norton and Richard Gere and Richard Gere was playing a psychiatrist that and Ed Norton is this guy that that supposedly blacks out and loses time and then winds up committing these murders and Gere is convinced that he's a multiple personality disorder and it's all exciting and fancy and deep and and impressive and then we find out oh no he's not he's a sociopath okay a beautiful example of the slickness of sociopathy pretending to be multiples was Kenneth Bianchi the hillside strangler that terrorized Los Angeles with his with his equally psychopathic cousin Angelo Buono and he had the prison psychiatrists bamboozled into thinking he was a multiple he wasn't a multiple is associate pal so there you go don't know not sure there could be such a thing but if there is such a thing out there it's super rare and it's something so it might be some bizarre psychopathology that is never seen by a rank-and-file prison psychiatrist
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