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Episode 143: Restriction and binges, healthy mom pushing health on family, 2 callers
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dear dr. Lisle I've always believed that under eating leads to overeating and that extra king leads to binging I'm now questioning the later belief if I took myself I can't have something I automatically want for myself it seems like a strategy that myself I can have anything I want to eat but setting up my life with emotional and social support and a kitchen a very healthy nutrient-dense food which leads to not wanting unhealthy food thus I'm choosing what I do want to eat instead of banning the bad foods is there some logic in this or is it a psychological trick which just applies to me the question is up for me right now as it's been suggested to me to decrease nuts and avocados in my diet to almost nothing but then again I don't want to trigger my eating disorder which is currently in remission hmm well there's a variety of ideas here first of all the under eating leading to more eating is the same thing as restricting leading to binging so it's just the same dynamic if people under eat and get get themselves hungry essentially try to clamp down on the hunger Drive then obviously they're much more volatile and they're likely to much more likely to gorge or binge the so that's that's like clear that that's how that would work it's also true that the hunger you get the more impulsive that you get and the more impulsive you get the more likely you are going to be to be headed towards very calorie rich foods because you're edgy and impulsive and you have less patience to go to the trouble of getting healthier foods so I'm not just making this up there's actually scientific evidence Blindness so systematic under eating is you know restricting yourself and trying to clamp down on hunger drive it's not a good idea the what you want to do is you want to you want to be eating comfortably on healthy food and you're you're better off eating probably better off eating six eight times a day more than you're eating two or three times a day the notion of restricting in Windows for eating you know during limited time periods also doesn't make any sense and is not supported by any evidence so you want to you want to eat be a good animal okay and you just want to eat healthy foods you know a essentially consistent with with what your impulses are the problem with your impulses is when you're around unnaturally rich foods so now one unnaturally rich food strangely enough would be nuts and avocado so nuts an avocado or both natural food and so you might say well are they unnaturally rich the answer is this particularly nuts are unnaturally rich they're there just to give you a feel for the problem you're you're designed by nature to have stretch receptors or Szish you know as part of a major component of your satiation processes to be looking to for you if you're an average-sized person you're going to be eating somewhere around four or five pounds of food a day would be fairly typical so that would typically be some where women would be eating about 2,000 calories a day and men would be eating about 2,500 calories a day so the typical calorie density would be somewhere roughly in the order of 500 calories a pound nuts or 2,500 calories a pound so a pound of nuts would would say she ate a male in terms of how many calories he needs for the day but it would only be one pound of food so you can see that there's a problem he might feel stuffed and glutted for a little while based on an extraordinary dose of fat in his stomach the doesn't even stretches stretch receptors out particularly because you can handle a pound of food without too much trouble think of think of for example a decent-sized apple you could eat two of them that's a pound and it's not going to challenge your stomach at all that's the same essentially the same size as a pound of nuts but that pound of nuts would have 2,500 calories where that pound of Apple would be have 300 so there's eight times the calorie density there so that is effectively unnatural and as a result if a person not not that they're fundamentally unhealthy but if a person is eating enough of these things to be systematically overweight they're eating healthy food otherwise but they are overweight and they're eating a significant amount of nuts and avocado then it is reasonable to restrict those okay because eating a diet with enough of those in there to impact your average calorie density so we're not talking about inhale today but you know easily a person could eat you know four ounces a day it's not a lot of nuts and 4 ounces of nuts would be 600 calories and typically the space of a hundred calories so the person could easily slip past four five hundred extra calories a day and 500 extra calories a day could easily keep a person 20 pounds overweight or so I'm just these are just broad numbers throwing at the wall everybody's genetics are different so it's not unreasonable for some intelligent dietary guru to tell key to tell someone hey listen what I see is a problem with your diet is that you've got enough nuts an avocado in there to keep you overweight even though you're doing everything else well and so it would be reasonable then to restrict those and now this person is saying well now wait a second is this going to trip up a psychological you know Pandora's box that if I feel restricted then I'm going to likely to binge no I don't think so so the the restriction binge process is when you actually get restricted the point of getting yourself hungry and you get hungry and you get impulsive and then you start reaching for calorie dense foods and when you reach for calorie dense foods now you're in trouble if you get in your environment and these are sort of a go-to coping mechanism for being hungry let me explain a little bit so I mean it's so the strategy here is to be eating a diverse balance of healthy food of which there's going to be some rich or food and some food that's very much very low in calorie density but the whole idea is for it to be reasonable and you to be comfortable and you not to be doing restricting so that we find that ultimately your weight if you're overweight it drifts down and if you're at a reasonable way that stays reasonable and you know everything is fine now let's look a little bit at problem types of foods that will stop binging a classic problem is what we call the buzzer drop and what the pleasure trap is is when food has been reconstructed in such a way that it is unnaturally exciting to the pleasure pathways and so the primary method by which this takes place is there's actually two methods one of them is the removal of fiber from foods so that the food is inherently more concentrated so you can imagine taking apples that are 300 cows a pound squeeze them into apple juice drying the apple juice out to where the water is gone and what we have left is the crystalline sugar which is $1,800 a pound so we have we have increased the caloric density of the calories in the apple by a factor of 6 and so now that's going to be vastly more exciting to the tongue than the 300 calorie pound bite of Apple so as a result of that that's going to be very exciting and it's going to draw people into eating it that's one method in other words the removal of fiber the removal of water in order to concentrate foods these are this is one method but there is another and the other method is to to understand that the pleasure centers of the brain with respect to food are activated by independent neural pathways from sugar fat and salt sensation and so most of your foods in nature are designed to only activate one pathway so fruit is just sweet it's not fat and it's not salty when you eat when you eat meat which would be a natural food you're going to be tasting the fat and also some protein but it's not going to be sweet and it's actually not going to be salty either fish might might be salty to some degree along with fat but what we're going to find is that where we where we start to get food that really drives binging behavior it's going to be food that is artificially constituted in a way that it's activating more than one pathway so one such food for example would be cheese which is a totally unnatural food so what cheese is is it's taking a milk product and what milk is is a bizarre it's a bizarre product that has both fat and sugar in it and this is only you know going to be for young mammals to vigorously pursue food from their mother that's going to activate both pleasure pathways for the rest of their life there won't be anything like that so you know after a deer you know is done weaning that deer is not going to see a food in its environment again that has both sugar and fat and at the same time that will never happen so the so we take this food that is you know designed for to to cause high excitation of consumption in a baby cow and by by virtue of activating dual pleasure pathways and we eat it and then not only do we eat it we add a bunch of salt to it so now what we've done is we've we've created a triple play where we're activating the sugar or the fat and the salt receptors at the same time so this is very much why those of us in this field have seen over and over again that getting rid of cheese is one of the hardest things anybody ever does that that's the reason for it is that it's a triple play you can also imagine a Snickers bar is a triple play so it's sweet its fat and it's salty okay same thing that's what honey roasted nuts are they're sweet they're fat and they're salty so you could see how this works so the pretty much almost all the binging you're going to see there's a person is getting in and around food that is super normal so for this person I'm not worried about them reducing down their nuts and avocado particularly all you know that that's not going to cause some bizarre reaction but what we want is we want the person eating comfortably not attempting to systematically under heat eating essentially the predominantly whole natural foods and then then if if they have a weight issue that they're struggling with that somehow that diet is not taken care of and what there is in the diet is a significant concentration that's an avocado then we would definitely reduce those and see what would happen over a period of time in terms of taking some weight off of people and very often it will all right fantastic needed yeah I thought that was great you know I was I got some nuts in shell the other day from the sword so you know I struggled for about half an hour trying to open one because I'll try to show off you have strong v button you know to open it but I finally got the scissors out and tried to do it that didn't work then I got the hammer out I finally was able to open it so by the time I like finished eating like six of us too tired to eat anymore so I was started thinking maybe maybe that's how nature regulated overconsumption of nuts other than up animals competing for them yeah actually it's interesting obviously the nuts are there as a mechanism for reproducing the tree that made them they're not there for animal consumption so yeah it's interesting I actually had never really thought that as an idea and it would make sense that something that rich which is designed by nature as a reproduction device you're sort of eating the gonads that's another way yeah the and as such it would make sense that there might be a significant defense against animals trying to get them and obviously nature's created it that worked they're so rich that that the animals go after them anyway but they don't get them all and we make the cost-benefit to to opening these things high enough that that some of them make it into the next generation so that's it that's actually interesting it's probably true that that the the difficulty of opening a nut is probably part of a you know coevolution of animal behavior to try to make the price high to get to it so yeah yeah I wonder if dr. Kemmerer likes to say coagulated cow pus when he's talking about milk so dr. Lisle I can just see this now in social media there's going to be a quote of dr. Lisle quoting gonads and nuts so that we're supposed to stop you yeah you were supposed to stop me before this happens but it's too late we we made another mistake all right all right one sorry next question and by the way we have two callers on hold so we'll take this question and then we'll get both of the callers so they're okay dear dr. Lisle I had a heart attack at 37 I was left with chronic angina we since went to dr. Caldwell Esselstyn got on his diet for the most part my chest pains under control I'm a wife and a mother of five kids I've even really cleaned for three years I'm too late to cook the food I can't eat so my family has to endure the Whole Foods plant-based diet that I'm on my family eats junk every lunch and then they come home and then endlessly complain about eating at home so my commit 5 put movin a effort into cooking my results would be about c-minus due to the fact that they are always in the pleasure trap can I be ok with that as a mom I feel need nourish my family food is love and love is food how can my family go back and enjoy the dinner table with this strict Whole Foods plant-based low-fat cooking while they daily they coat their taste buds daily in sugar fat and ultra refined foods well I would say the following and that is that I wouldn't be trying to ram a Nelson diet down my kids throat I think that's a mistake and so she's saying she's too lazy to do anything more than do it her way and then everybody else has to suffer so it depends on how much quote you love your kids and how lazy you are etc and but one thing that I don't want of the person to do is to feel like that this is somehow necessary for their kids good health that they that they do things at this level but what you want is you want your kids to do a pretty good job and to do a pretty good job that it doesn't have to be a draconian Elson level diet Esselstyn is is there for else Wilson's diet is there to drag people back like herself that at 37 years old she was in deep trouble and so therefore you know dramatic changes were necessary because we had very scary pathology so that's different than some kid that what we're trying to do is to have them eat healthy enough that he doesn't wind up in the same place and so what we need to do is have things they don't they don't need to be worried about sodium they don't need to be nearly as worried about oil or fats and we're not even sure she needs to be worried about oil but that's a that's a matter of debate it is legitimate open question in science right now so I would err on the side of caution at that point and I would follow and Esselstyn diet if I had had a heart attack the but the kids don't need to and so we and we don't have to be so super strict so we should have some healthy food in the house that isn't that isn't so rough that they're that they're not willing to that they don't grade it as a B which I think that they would so there's no reason to not have pasta in the house with spaghetti sauce and who knows vegan or non-vegan meatballs for goodness sakes the veggie burgers Mexican food tostadas burritos cetera there's there's no there's really no reason for for them to not have a lot of healthy food that they like pretty well so I think probably if she's gone in no sodium kind of a situation you know when you're making things you might make them the very low sodium way and the way that's not so low sodium for you for your kids and your husband so yeah my attitude is find a way to be more flexible so that they aren't on such a narrow pathway because they they are not reeking with pathology and they're not in danger and so to try to try to get them to do something that almost no people that are highly motivated and highly aware have a difficulty doing is a bridge too far and and in a bar too high for kids set on do it lower the bar let's just get some healthy decent food in them and let's not worry about it fascinating and for people who say that that if you feed them this food you may suffer more and of an addiction later on in life whether you say to them yeah that would be a mistake people have a tendency to to think that you know that we set things up early in life and then then you know they're going to go on a line or if they out of line early in life and we think it's going to be really hard to get him back in line this is just not the way life is life is vastly more dynamic than this so and first of all your kids are not going to nobody's kid unless they happen to be some bizarre genetic specimen living in a bizarre situation is going to walk some tight line with respect to food it's just not the way it's going to be so that shouldn't even be our hope or goal that our kid would do this the our hope and our goal is that our child you know get eats a lot of healthy food even if they eat a lot of unhealthy food that's okay I just want to make sure they get a lot of healthy food in them they will as young adults be in charge of their own decisions on food pretty soon and we want them exposed to and comfortable with healthy food in and know what it feels like the healthy food and can can you know distinguish and contrast that when they don't feel quite as good as a result of eating a bunch of rich food and so when they go away and leave us we we don't want them we don't want them effectively feeling like they just escaped prison and now they're going to go out on their own and they're going to essentially give mom the finger and now they're going to finally do what they want that this is a pipe dream that that we're ever going to get that kind of control and even if we did we would likely have an enormous backlash so don't do it okay what we want to do is we want them to have the sort of identity knowledge of themselves that we are health oriented and health conscious that we're not you know we're not terrified of foods we sort of know how to grade foods we know what's in a and what's up being what to see and what's worse and we don't worry about it from hour to hour or day to day but what we look at at our diet as a process of which we want to be doing a pretty good job that's what you want your kids to to live with and to understand and so that's we're not setting I'm up for failure by allowing them to to make choices that are less than optimal you know in terms of their long-term health because the differences between them doing a good job and them doing a great job early in life have essentially zero impact are essentially unmeasurable impact when it comes to their old edge and what happens in their old age is going to be a function of the independent choices that they will make you know for 40 or 50 years outside of your outside of your influence so the influence you want to have is to have them understand what healthy food looks like and also to have them have a relaxed attitude about it and a good feel for it rather than tension restriction and an all-or-nothing we don't want that that's a that's a recipe for failure fantastic so like I said we have two callers on hold so we're going to take the first caller and then the second caller who's though the second caller is the last digits of 731 so just hang on tight and we'll get to you in just a second very good we're going to welcome to the program eighty Amy welcome to the program how are you good good what what first of all were you from is Amy I've talked to you before a couple episodes ago do you remember me I you know what I actually I probably will as soon as you start talking and describing your situation but a bit a little lost right now go ahead well I live in a van I don't know how many colors you talk to that women live in a van now it's coming back to me okay all right that's it okay go ahead I'm just over here as a fasting escaped with me yes fabulous okay yeah really nice over here so my question is something that I've been struggling with is my boyfriend is not vegan and so I'm wondering because it causes a lot of tension when he will eat meat in front of me I have a real more I have a real moral issue with it so my question is how can it kind of pertains to the question just answered about not forcing children into a certain way of eating I don't want to be that girlfriend that like lectures and is disapproving every time he makes a food choice but I do have a moral issue with it so I'm wondering what's the best way to go about handling it would be interesting boy you know that's a that's a great question Amy and I'm I'm not sure what the answer is so let's let's try to walk through this and let's see if we can get you any kind of relief and give you any change in either perspective or behavioral strategy that might be helpful okay so first of all tell me a little bit about what goes down now typically how it feels and what happens well how it feels to me when he eats meat yeah well first of all how does this take I mean so now for first like let's set the scene the scene is we already know that he knows that this is a problem for you yeah okay so he knows it's a problem for you you know it's a problem so now we're going to sit down to eat somewhere and he's going to choose to eat meat in front of you even though he knows that this is a problem for you yeah so this is a huge signal all right and what so it's a probably I mean there's more than one thing going on here the first issue is the the idea that it is personally morally offensive for you to watch this happen but I would submit that if you're in a restaurant an Italian restaurant and you see that somebody at two tables over is ordering veal parmigiana you're not wild about it but it's not that upsetting yeah okay but it's a vetting if your boyfriend who knows your position orders it right in front of you yeah so what what what does that tell you what's the signal um it's me it's ignorance because he's he's avoiding the issue I mean I've kind of showed him some footage and showed him how these animals are being treated and he is ignoring it just like you know most people do but I I don't understand how how you could ignore that know what okay hi I'm actually not reading it that way okay so I'm going to give you an alternative explanation of what's going on and I could be wrong but it or there could be there could be degrees of accuracy here where there's you know multiple issues here that are going on the but let me check first so you showed him footage okay mm-hmm you've explained how it is that you think and feel about this tell me what has been his response upon discussions about this um well he he seems interested and he understands where I'm coming from he decided he just feels like that's a really big change and I understand that um but he's on a post to the idea that that it just it really grosses me out more than anything like he'll he'll eat me and then like we have a rule like he has the brushes he's or I can't I can't kiss I'm like it really goes me out right so and dairy most of all so I mean he's open to the idea but and he needs me and when it's just me and him and I'm cooking he'll eat vegan yeah you know if we're as friends and they offer him a cheeseburger using the cheeseburger and that and that irritates me too because he he knows that he feels better eating the way that I that we but he doesn't really stand for the issue and so he's just kind of well wishy-washy a lot of that right - no wait a second and now we got different issues okay so we get this straight so the first issue is is that if you're like it let's suppose the two of you go out to eat somewhere futile is he likely to eat ribs right in front of you yeah he was a restaurant he would eat that but it's just that if I'm cooking he did cubed this he'll just eat whatever anyone makes them he doesn't care yeah but he does care because he's going to order the ribs recorder yeah she's burger right in front of you at a restaurant when it's just the two of you yeah he went he would do that and now that's very interesting okay so the the the the other I mean if he said a friend's and they're doing this then he would have to make a statement and it's an issue and now there's a you know now becomes a wider political you know phenomenon but if it's between the two of you and he does this and he knows that it's an issue for you pretty hard to escape the fact unless he's like 25% has burgers it's pretty hard to escape but he's sending you a signal that he's not that into you okay so I don't know about anybody else listening but if I was really into somebody and they had an issue like that if a woman said you know I really just cannot stand the idea of somebody you know I don't know eating potatoes just bugs me it's like no problem hoppy rice okay so this is kind of a kind of an interesting signal and as I said using the pleasure trap has anything to do with it I don't know about the pleasure trap with respect to it a hamburger in other words a hamburger and cheese and yeah yeah you got it you got a point accept it seems to be this would seem to be a minimal sacrifice that it depends also you know are you guys don't live together so it's not like he can't do whatever he wants when he's out of your sight so it's not an unreasonable request for you given the fact that this is a big you know that your this is not just is not a health issue for you if it's a health issue it wouldn't be as big of an issue but you've got more of an animal-rights streak in you and for him to be defying that right in front of you and without any other social pressure from anybody else is to me hmm I can't help but think that the number one that that's part of the signal that's being sent and I can't help but think that somewhere you're not cataloging that unconsciously one one other minor thing I'm going to add is we don't go to restaurants a lot the only time here we are together we're probably staying as moms and wishing Cup being at his mom's okay yeah and she'd go she cooks for him so it as it does boil down to turning down his mother's cooking uh-oh that's a couple yeah dad you guys are staying with his mother okay yeah so now this is a whole now we're right back to a major political set of dynamics okay yeah so the so yeah I see yeah even so I could see that part of the sting that you would be feeling would be the subterranean signal that what you think and what you feel is only of X amount of importance okay and so you know and I understand and yet that's true he sees you and your value in in a as we see anybody in a matrix of values and and so your this issue as opposed to you know some other issues that where you have feelings and thoughts about how the should be and he does and so on and so forth and other people do there would be different different situations different conflicts this particular conflict in in these situations he's not feeling like it's worth it to cross his mother were to cross his friends in order to in order to acquiesce to your you know what you're thinking so this he's a mixed bag in terms of this issue he you know he's not you know that's a sort of a big one so I think that the way for you to see this is that it isn't that he's not paying attention that he doesn't care and it's not just ignorance okay that's not what's happening here what's happening is is that there are esteem signals that are involved so he would have to send his mother and a steam signal then hey you've been poisoning me for our whole lives and now I've now learned a bunch of things that you don't know and shame on you and I'm not going to eat your food yeah whoa yeah by the way they're not anything under your roof and eating your food yeah okay yeah so you can see that maybe a hot new girlfriend isn't quite worth it in terms of caught you know crossing that bridge or burning it okay so little by little you know I mean he he may if your relationship laughs and you visit his mother often and sooner or later we subtly in you know we introduced his mother that you've got some wacky ideas and he's like sort of adopting them and so we're going to do things a little differently we could see that there would need to be a little social evolution here in in with respect to that problem but yeah I think that yeah we're not going to snap our fingers and change this not with respect to that and with respect to his friends the with him one on one in a restaurant when you when you guys are spending time I would say to him and say listen you know I don't you know out out of sight out of mind and when you know I don't you know I bet that I'm not I'm not out to here to to be you know in charge I'm not the police here for you and I know that you're you know if you listen to me and you're learning and you're open but yet it actually really bothers me and it feels like it feels in some ways disrespectful my feelings if you if you order animal foods when we're out together okay before your with your mom and your friends and other people are cooking hey that's a whole different thing but one-on-one I don't know that bothers me just makes me feel I feel like you could you could do a reasonable sacrifice so that I don't have to think about that you know what I think that's a very reasonable request yeah does that make sense yeah and if he if he honors that I think he sends you if he fight you on that I think that's a big esteem signal that we that we've tripped over mm-hm he should be reasonably you know there's enough there's enough validity to this issue the ones people's attention is called to it that if if your girlfriend says hey this is all I'm asking that's not unreasonable at all and if he's not willing to do that he sent in you a hell of a signal my guess is if we limit the request of that and we make sure he understands that you're sensitive fact that that's not where he's going to be elsewhere including when you're there okay that when there's other people and their thoughts and feelings are at play then hey no problem I understand and that's not an issue okay when it's just me and you I feel like you it's reasonable so that I don't have to look at this and think about that animal that died so that you can have that that fit yeah I don't want I don't want to have to be thinking that and so the I think that you you know that's a reasonable thing to ask and if his response is hey no problem then we know that we we were not getting negative esteem signals okay okay make sense sure good very good all right glad to have you there in the van head fasting escape very cool oh all right thank you you got thanks for your call all right thank you very very much for the phone call all right dr. Lyle we got time for one more so sure caller welcome to what's important one from hey I'm calling from Jacksonville hey what Jacksonville what's your name Ryan what I couldn't hear is a Bryce Brian Brian Brian from Jacksonville all right very good Brian well what's going on what's happening hey well I mean first of all I'm just gonna flood your circuits here a little bit I was - yeah go ahead I would talk about that okay I looked into your advice as far as I have a son and I Wilson - your advice as far as what to do his grades weren't necessarily the best and you know I was kind of cracking down and I'm not with the mother and you gave me device just set the bar really low because I might be I might be setting up the wrong the wrong incentive structure there if he thinks bark too high and he might not be able to beat it you know who might be caught in the ego trap and just not even try seoeon / yeah so i basically did exactly what you said i told him hey look i know school is hard a lot of kids are cheating their parents are helping them with homework if now like it was when I was a kid they expect so much more of you so just don't fail you know get these get to you just past I don't care just get to you and if you are you know to do better if you get A's and B's I'll get you this fish tank that you want you know and I mean done and it kind of looked at me like I was crazy yeah but but you know he's that you know the report cards roll around and you know that they're there it is you've got all A's and B's you know what I mean so I brings it back and I said oh that's great dollies and bees I mean I'm proud of you but let's not get too excited sometimes getting up here the teachers you know taking these down the kids they don't really give them give them anything too hard you know what I mean yeah he might he bet right back at me kind of laugh and say no y'all show you dad I'll show you you know yeah oh that works exactly like you said it would oh that's beautiful Brian I'm glad to hear that that's terrific yeah yeah the only problem I have now is you know he's called his grades after now everyone's telling them well I knew I know you could do it I knew you could do it the whole time there's no reason you shouldn't get A's and B's every time you know yeah it's time to you know you're screwing it up but you got to try and try to educate them a little and fight that to the extent that you can yes yeah you just keep the bar lower and just tell them now they know they're talking about they don't know how ridiculous it all is now if you if you manage to get a B average I don't know that you can do that you know I don't know that you can do that consistently probably not but you might be able to but you might not so don't worry about it okay we keep it right there and we just discount everybody else's opinion and let him continue to win surprise status from you that's what we do okay yeah okay they're good at one I had one more question that you have the trick you bet um so you know I look as you talk about the big five plus IQ yeah and you said that you're not a genetic determinist but it seems that in your opinion you know genetics there's a lot that you make determines nice yeah their work right sure so what can what can we do it as far as the big five if we want to increase conscientiousness or if we want to you know lower disagreeable mess in certain circumstances or is it just one of those things that were dealt with what we're dealt with Delta and we're done we just have to try and make do the best we can with what we have yes we need to make the best we can with what we have that means that for example let's suppose you know that you're kind of low in conscientiousness and you're not going to keep things organized very well so you may hire some somebody else to do it okay if you can if you can afford it so the if you're disagreeable you know let's let's hope that you that you can adopt a couple of strategies that say if it's such a good idea to go off on my boss it'll be a good idea tomorrow okay and so you promise ourself that if you you know 24 hours from now it'll be a perfectly good idea and we can do it then so we what we try to do is we try to Mickey Mouse our way around weaknesses or vulnerabilities that we have in our in our you know or uncompetitive we're essentially competitive weaknesses we try to patch our way around those things as best we can in much the same way but if you don't have a perfect body you try to wear clothes that emphasize your strengths okay this is what we do and you try to arrange your life in ways that that will will be conducive to where you are relatively strong and minimize where you're weak yeah you're not going to you're not going to change who it is that you are you want to arrange your environment and find environments that are that are as close to ideal as you can for who it is that you know who it is that you are that's the idea okay okay that makes yeah so you don't you don't try to become like let's suppose you got a shy person that's lonely and doesn't have any friends okay we're not going to get them to be mailed more outgoing that's a waste of time what isn't a waste of time is to let's suppose that oh I don't know suppose they have something that they love like the harp okay and they like to play the harp then what we want to do is we want to get them in with a group of other shy people that play the harp in a little harp class and now there's like half a dozen these people or four or five on the meet every week now they can all talk about their harps and so now we've engineered for this person a little village and they are getting the the social processes that they are feeling deficient in and lonely and now they don't feel so lonely anymore so we didn't change their personality we change their environment and that's how we solve the problem okay yeah rather than trying to rut rather than trying to be something you're not and they you know ended to try and find ways to augment your weaknesses and place your strengths and put yourself an environment where that what you are is effective in bringing it you you can think about it in this way absolutely I'm just going to reiterate this that you are the perfect personality for some bizarre set of environments okay so some guy that's quick on the trigger angry you know what I'm saying entitled you know low conscientiousness he's perfect for the Mafia okay okay that's where you should go okay you should join the Mafia okay change your name put an O on the end of it okay so the this is what this is what you want to do so you want to be figuring out as close as you can figure out Who am I one of the one of my favorite writers as a young man was a man by the name of Robert ringer and Robert ringer which turned out to be this you know sort of superstar business guy real estate big-ticket real estate salesman author you know really quite quite a character and ringer talks about in one of his books I can't remember one of his later books he said you know you got to figure out who you are says I the young man he was smart conscientious but he found himself in dental school and he was like I was terrible and he says he when he fine finally quit he says the mannequins were cheering as he left because he was so bad okay and and he went on from there to go into the real estate industry and then became you know a legendary big-ticket real estate salesperson that he he tells the story in a fabulous book called winning through intimidation and so this is a this is an example of a guy who recognized in his mid-20s man I'm in the wrong place and so that's what this is about a lot of times we're in the wrong place we're in the wrong relationship we're in the wrong career we're in the wrong part of the country you know whatever it is you know find a find a set of circumstances that matches who you are that's what we want to do
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