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Episode 126: Delaying sex Does a woman's self-esteem increase with age
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good evening everybody is Nate G here along with dr. Doug Lyall dr. Lyle how are you doing this fine evening very good about yourself I'm doing pretty good we are broadcasting live from the fasting escape retreat center here and repeat those of you want to listen to us live you can listen to us on blog talk radio comms and you can listen to us live on that web site call-in live got the number seven six five seven three eight three zero seven five one so we're broadcasting live from the fasting escape retreat center but we are not going to be talking about fasting day we're going to be talking about relationships and sex and love so dr. Lyle you ready to hit it oh well that just perks my ears right up okay all right all right so dr. Malik first question is with regards to your advice several several dozen episodes back where you made the case and you laid out the logic for a woman to actually wait for 10 paid dates that means the man has to pay for her date 10 times until having sex so this listener sent us a question dear dr. Lyle I'm a 35 year old man I'm a big fan of the show your podcasts have helped me out greatly and dovetail very closely with my personal experiences that's why I was shocked to hear you recommend that a couple should wait ten pay dates until having sex I'm at the other end of the spectrum I almost exclusively try to push for sex on the first date when I'm single and I'm often successful I would never ever wait more than three dates to have sex no matter how alluring the romantic prospect if it didn't happen by the first date my third date is an invitation to dinner and watch a movie at my place after getting shot down and if it didn't happen by then I just move on assuming that the woman was just using me for free entertainment validation etc I couldn't have written this better that I want to do all right I will peek around on the far side of this too to give some as we might say validation to this disguised position I can understand there are there are men that feel that if a woman looks them over for a few times and then is being resistant and the guy is spending some money he may feel like he's quote being used for free entertainment but women don't use men for free entertainment this way I mean maybe maybe one in a hundred would but I can see why someone could think that that would be possible but that's not what's taking place so on the other hand if you're a woman and you just listen to this mission I wish we should we should put this this question in a bronze plaque okay this is exactly why I recommend this so notice as we listen to this that he's quote done this often so he would never do this and this is how he does it if it you get shot down on date 1 and day 2 then there's one more shot man if that's if you're if you're if you don't come through on date three then you're out he's done listen to this okay this is a guy speaking from the heart and he's all he listens to this show he's theoretically listened to to the logic you know that some of the ideas have been helpful listen to is he skips past and he the logic here and doesn't you know it is basically clueless as to why it is that this is such an important strategy which is why this is such an important strategy the the male is basically saying if you don't give me access to your eggs by the way every sex act in nature for humans let's just compute the cost there's a five percent chance of pregnancy one out of twenty so of unprotected sex in the Stone Age basically environment so where the females fertile males fertile and there's no birth control one out of twenty the amount of child-rearing that that female is going to do for if that if that sperm hits that egg it's going to be phenomenal there's going to be an unbelievable biological price that's going to go on this is going to go on let's call it twenty years that's not a bad guess maybe it's 1516 but let's just call it twenty for statistical you know neatness twenty years one in twenty shot that means every sex acts in nature for our species is essentially one year of motherhood that is a hell of a lot of work okay this guy wants to trade no more than a couple of dinner dates and an invitation to his apartment for a year of your mothering that's the deal okay of course that's the deal he wants and he's attractive enough and assertive enough he's been able to pull it off so people been biting on that and and so I'm telling women don't bite on it okay it's not in your best interest if it's such a great idea in other words now of course if you're in weak knees Delta and you're all excited about it you just can't pass it up because he's just too you know it's like lamb chops you know you just can't pass it up fine no problem the but that that's that's your business and I you have no no interest in being involved in moralizing that this is an immoral izing issue at all it's an issue of what women feel like after they allow this to happen they weren't necessarily that into it and then it turns out you know they were hopeful that this guy was actually invested in them psychologically and emotionally and this had long-term prospects now most of women most of the time that's actually the circumstances that they're seeking and yet if they're interested in a guy they may feel like they're getting pushed well of course you're getting pushed you're getting pushed behind the casual mating strategy and you're not and push behind the pair-bond strategy pair-bond strategy is not going to say well after date 3 you know what I was really interested in you I thought your looks were great I thought your personality was great I thought your intelligence was great I thought your life circumstances were great incredibly interested feel like I'm getting 10% better than I had coming to me and I'm freaking falling in love with you but you know if you don't give it up after date 3 I'm out of here you got to be kidding okay all right so women pay attention to this to this guys comment the this was not directed at couples this was directed at women and there there are a couple of treacheries that are are part of the human dilemma treachery number one is the casual mating strategy of the male as they Bluff and push and deceive the female into casual mating when the female really wouldn't want a casual mating situation and she does not want to be walking away pregnant with a guy who's heading over the hill because he's not that into him did that is that is tragedy number one in human nature tragedy number two in human nature is the girls not that into you but she feels like you're a good provisioner and solid dude gets married to you but really winds up wanting to sleep with other people does sleep with other people and you wind up provisioning some other guys kid okay that's tragedy number two so both of those are standard Stone Age human tragedies so in the Stone Age they didn't get married but a guy would stick around in provision for you know a few years in a situation where the gals not that into him denies sex a lot really isn't into it gives it up once in a while and we know that she strategically gives up sex when she's least likely to be fertile and she's most likely to be cheating on him when she's most likely to be fertile okay we actually know this we've got empirical evidence that supports this so the female is yeah I can play this game and does play this game potentially in just as treacherous a fashion as the male but it's not as often okay it's not as common and and this the casual mating strategy of the male hitting on the female is extraordinarily common and so this this podcast and my concept that 10 paid dates you know when I say 10 paid dates it's just sort of a pleasant easy thing to say and it's an easy thing to remember it's conceptual okay it's it's the idea is what signals are you getting from this guy and put him off a while okay let if he's super interested he he'll still be super interested if it's such a great idea to sleep with him after three weeks it'll be a great idea to sleep with him after six weeks okay so the idea is just cool everybody's jets and let's see if he runs off because quote the prices to I if the price is too high to stick around when you're getting very positive feedback from a female who's clearly very excited about being with you but she's not going to put out because she's going to defend her eggs for a little while if that's too high of a price for you then ladies you should this is the wrong this is mr. wrong okay so mr. wrong wrote to us thank you mr. wrong it's very glad you gave us that question all right on we go yeah I you know I've dated dated a little bit my fair share and more than my share and yeah there was always a little inkling in the back of my head for some of the the bad experiences I had that oh maybe I was just used for free entertainment free dinner free concert whatever it was it was always just in the back of my head but I remember that episode when you were talking about ten pay dates and something you said snapped me out of it when you said why would the woman want to waste her time with somebody and she's not attracted to and it just like oh my god oh I'm not that special like why would you want to waste your time it made a lot of right she would not okay women are not wasting their time they are vetting you man if they defend their eggs they're doing exactly the right thing okay so absolutely there they're not G let's see if we can get a free greasy meal and a movie ticket out of this guy for this Saturday night gee that's just what I want to do with my valuable eggs you've got to be kidding me people yeah there's no way in hell but that I mean do I think that some highfalutin chick is leading some guy on whose she doesn't think his fancy but he drives big fancy car and as a rolls-royce Silver Shadow and takes her to the big fancy Country Club under the chandeliers and lets her dress up and as a box at the Opera okay do I think that that happens of course that happens but that's not that is not standard fare for human beings the girl wants to go out with you because she thinks you're cute okay and she's thinking about that she can't rule you out as a partner if she's guarding the eggs that's because she's playing it careful just as she should all right yeah I really appreciate you clarifying because it changed a lot you know some of my thinking regarding that gateau never been happier since then okay all right so next question now we look from the the woman's perspective in a little bit of a different different way so dear doctor London I've noticed that the self-esteem of many women that I know seems to rise dramatically once they enter their 30s and a number of women in the spotlight including business women and celebrities have attested to feeling more confident as they age as well well given that self-esteem is highly tied to attractive next and that women's attractiveness drops steeply with age shouldn't women's self-esteem peak in their 20s and then go down as they enter their 30s could this be because women are less likely to be in the mating market in their 30s and therefore happier because they're not facing the competitive pressures of the dating market or is there nothing that is other than in them anecdotal data really good good thoughtful question a lot of different aspects of this yeah I would I would probably start out you know as as Aristotle would say we check our premises and I don't know of any empirical evidence that says that women's self-esteem rises in their 30s none at all so right right off the bat that this looks like nothing other than an anecdotal observation the you know of someone with a who's just thinking and is sort of seen a few instances and isn't looking at the other instances so think about think about women your self-esteem is you know we're not going to get technical here let's talk about what she's talking about with self-esteem what we're really talking about we self esteem is is a thing that we're going to call confidence and that is a confidence about how well you can compete in three major markets of life and those three major markets are going to be mating friendship and trade and so of course women who are successful professionally a lot of times are going to have more confidence at 35 than they did at 25 that that wouldn't surprise us any the women that are in an established pair bond at 35 and we're not an established pair bond at 25 just as this lady is mentioning that are they now sort of out of the competitive pressures they're out of the competitive pressure and if they're if they're in a good relationship and they're getting good positive feedback from their spouse that they're the spouse finds them attractive and it's stable then that that little open loop on their competitiveness is calm down on their on their esteem mechanism so then then we're looking at friends and you know I'm not not expecting that people have any better or worse situation with their friends at 35 than 25 so of course we're going to be able to find all kinds of anecdotal individuals that whose life circumstances are calmer better more secure at everything at 35 and at 25 would I expect this to be the general trend not particularly at all the you're going to have people that are who just broke up with a guy that's strung along for five years and now their biological clock is ticking and they're feeling they're feeling exactly what this looks about what about our looks dropping etc it's going to turn out that that woman's looks do not drop appreciably between 30 and 40 that's because they are they are still basically completely fertile and so the male's mechanisms are still extremely interested as far as that goes as long as the females are evidencing fertility kids I think the the more the more sort of serious crisis of self-confidence miss Serena is going to tend to take place you know after 45 when there's going to be there's going to start to be a significant drop and the woman's going to be noticing her own aging cues and and watching the reduced action from the market whatever the whatever her baseline was at 35 for attention for males it's now going to be it's now going to be in decline so the those things are are going to be you know however it doesn't happen all at once okay it's just like aging itself it happens it happens really slowly and you your nervous system is adjusting all along the way and your confidence and self-esteem mechanisms are actually much more localized to changes local changes in circumstances temporally it isn't about more long long standing you know analysis of where the hell was I 10 years ago versus world the hell am I now it's more like where am I now as opposed to where I was two weeks ago okay that's that's how those mechanisms are are they're much more sensitive to short-term change that's their that's their nature you will notice things and you'll occasionally be caught short one of my very best friends who is always really hip he's my friend who is a rock and roll drummer and movie producer and and Don Juan and finally found found miss right Meritor and he said we're sitting in a restaurant few years ago and he goes I don't know he says one day you look I was probably some birthday mind you know my 50s and he goes he's older than I am much older much older and and he says one day you'll look around in a place like this and you'll be the older person in a room and you'll say when the hell did this because that was ever true so the point is we we we adjust to these processes and so we're not likely to find when it comes to internal signaling process of confidence and so forth we're not likely to find dramatic differences from one decile you know of life to the next or one decade to the next we will see some things that can they can change and be really serious challenges as people get get very elderly and they become less competent and they need more and more help from other people that can be pretty rough on them emotional ages because they can feel that literally the queues indicate that they are more cost than they are benefit that's really hard okay but as a woman ages she is not getting those cues she's just getting cues that our market is shifting and but everybody's does so I think that this was an interesting question I think the underlying premise of the question is fundamentally incorrect and so I don't I don't think that women's self-esteem at 35 is higher than it is at 25 and I think that I do think attractiveness issues will be impacting her internal experience but it's probably going to be much greater as she as she loses market power later and then also something else happens that wouldn't shock us and that is is that as they as women age they become less and less interested in sex and rum they become more and more interested in their grandchildren okay so the psychology of the female organism start shifting to what reproduction okay it's a it's a survival and reproduction machine and therefore what's going on with grandchildren becomes increasingly important and fascinating and in an appropriate place for their time and energy it isn't that they become interested in such disinterested in sex and romance but it declines significantly just as we would expect so I want to ask you about a pop psychology which is probably an urban legend and so forgive me yeah but I'd heard a few times in my life that you know men's sexual peak is in their you know 18 19 20 ish and women's sexual peak is in the 30 so what the hell does all that mean yeah it's oddly bullshit yeah I guess all the ludicrous the UH from what I can tell as I approach my by my 60th birthday out here not too not too far out over the horizon it looks all about the same nothing has changed since I was 14 so this is all this is urban legend of course people go through through changes and their lifetime but the note the notion that quote women are in their dirty 30s or they're in their peak at 31 etcetera and the male is at his peak early it is ludicrous the the the males are are pretty hot engines you know all the way through the first 50 years of life their testosterone levels will eventually drop to some degree and and therefore the amount of sexual thoughts that they have will drop but they'll still have a lot okay you're still talking about an awful lot of sexual thoughts and a lot of sexual interest you may not have because a lousy diet you may not have that much capability and you may not have much attractiveness so you can't translate that into the targets you'd be interested in so that that is true and it and this is it's true both ways you know women men because recta v' are actually you know essentially highly attractive into their early 40s and then the women no matter what the woman's age it sort of sets gets stuck there so a six-year-old female is still interested in what a 40 year old guy looks like okay and a 7 year old female is still interested in what a 40 year old guy looks like the males are similarly stuck so the males will find a early 20s female to be the best looking specimen even though their interests will go as far as the female evidences fertility kids which of course could be 70 years old if one's in great shape but but the point is is that the but again everybody is stuck looking at young attractive specimens and as we age we're all kind of hosed to varying degrees alright only people will there's incredibly lousy research that gets published all the time and they'll make a big thing out of incredibly small differences so some survey research will find that 30 31 year old females are thinking about sex you know four times an hour but a forty year old female is thinking about on sex average 3.8 times an hour no sexual peaks in their thirties well really like this infinitesimally small difference that is so small that it's easily obscured by individual differences in the females themselves and we're going to make a generalization about age make it a difference you got to be kidding me so that that's the the absurdity the difference in the sexual interest of the human male at age forty versus the human male at age eighteen is infinitesimally small and therefore even if such a difference exists it's it's absurd to even discuss it so that's how that works fantastic well speaking on all a woman's alg we get beautifully to this next question listeners asking you for some help about solve a problem alright dear dr. Lisle I can't stop thinking about him I'm a 40 year old woman I play in a co-ed soccer league there's this guy on my team that I have a crush on I'm 40 he's 25 he doesn't look or act like a 25 year old and he seems to like me as well but he's kind of a bad boy he smokes cigarettes he doesn't have a college education compared to me I've been trying to talk myself out of liking him but I just can't seem to do it I'm also ready to get married and start a family and tend to bond with men very quickly I can't imagine my friends and family would be okay with this but what do you say should I pursue this I really want to am I crazy Oh another question that belongs in bronze is this the both of these we had two of them tonight to get to get metals we got to figure out which one we put on the top of the podium well first guy is the bad boy here that would be really cool maybe Joe not oh my goodness what would I say about this I it's interesting she's saying she's ready to get married and start a family well yeah okay so what's hoped that she hasn't already picked somebody and that this guy's getting in between that decision it sounds like instead what she's telling us is you know would this be a legitimate partner well let's begin with the end in mind okay so let's let's back the camera up and try to see see through the the Purple Haze here the first thing is is that if you are 40 years old and you are wanting to get married and have a family you should not be spending one day of your life pursuing a 25 year old okay that is this is an impossibility so you could just forget it now so it doesn't sound to me like what it really sounds to me like is the following that the idea of getting married and having family is inherently interesting for a number of reasons but it's not very high priority because if you're 40 years old and you're thinking it's just about time for you to settle down and get married and have a family you're about five years too late okay so since you're late you have not a day to spare so if you're actually serious about this and trying to find a lifetime partner to be the father of your children and to support what is an extraordinarily expensive time and energy process and to have it be the love of your life then you don't have an hour to spare okay so I would suggest that you give it your very best shot over the next couple of years and that you be on the appropriate dating sites and dating processes looking for who your peer okay your peer is somebody that is 38 to 46 or 48 years old who thinks that you're the greatest thing and is ready to go all-in on this process now the odds of that happening are remote but you could pull it off the 25 year old sounds like it might be a lot of fun okay so the I can't I can't I'm not moralizing here what we're doing is we're trying to take a widespread sweep around this women psychology and try to help her actually be her jin's so her genes figure you don't give very much provisioning out of males anyway it's only going to last two or three years so what the hell okay now depends on was sort of what your financial and emotional and familial and psychological and professional and everything else circumstances are because if you want to have a great grand time sleep with this guy get knocked up have a kid and then share half-baked custody which he probably is a bad boy so he really wouldn't care very much whether or not he sees his kid or not - probably then hey have a good time no problem okay sounds like he's a good specimen sounds like we got you know an exciting sort of situation if you're if you're prepared for single motherhood then there's nothing in the world might as well if you're going to be going to do that anyway the sounds like a perfectly reasonable prospect because he's not going to be hassling you in custody court because he wanted to see his kid very often so all is cool now the so we can sort of see that we've got different agenda here the this guy may have been a perfectly legitimate target for your interests if we're looking at a Stone Age environment but we probably are not looking at a Stone Age environment because you probably you know most people with I'm going to answer this question generically for females very few females have the time energy interest and money and family support to basically be a single mom easily now if you can and you're willing to and you're willing to head into this thing then that's fine I have no no issue at all with this there are women that desperately wanted to have children and I've said hey look at look at a sperm donor you know I mean way less hassle with respect to fighting somebody over custody issues you know the dynamics of relationship anything else in the Sun it's a completely legitimate way to run your life if you're up against the clock okay I've seen it done successfully and watch people very happy with the results so the bat that's it that's an angle but trying to figure out what's in your best interest here has to do with what end that you seek that's why we begin with the end in mind we must answer we have to try to answer those questions honestly there's also nothing wrong with saying you know what I'm going to throw myself at this guy roll in the hay have fun for a couple of months and then I will get on to whatever the project is that I ought to ought to be doing to try to find mr. right for the long term okay so this these are there are a number of ways to to manage this but what I actually hear the woman is saying is gee my friends and family might be upset but I'd really like to marry this guy well you are not going to marry this guy what makes you think that this 25 year old flake has any interested in marrying you like why would we think that that would happen the MIT might it happen might our girl be Helen of Troy on a 40th 40th birthday and this guy feeling like you know he would have killed the bear possibly okay how likely it is not very likely men are picking up aging cues they can compute the differential between their age and your age and and so it's going to turn out that this kind of thing by the way just if you look at it statistically the odds of a relationship breaking up if the male is older than the theme if the female is older than the male is extremely high okay and the greater the age differential the more and more statistical likelihood that that will happen have I seen it happen where the male and female got together where there was this kind of age discrepancy yes I have have I seen it successfully it's successful yes I have what were the circumstances unbelievably stable an incredibly mature responsible young man I have seen it happen is that what this looks like let me see smoke cigarettes doesn't have a college education seems like bad boy does it sound like it to me so spin the wheel figure out where you want to go and take a shot at it but this this doesn't look like a long-term para bond to build a modern family situation around but that doesn't mean that that's necessarily what you're seeking all right you can yeah starting with the end in mind you said that to me recently in a conversation and it just kind of blew my mind because I thought you know so many people are trying to offer advice based on what they think is the right situation whereas you're just a saying well what do you want find out what you want then we work towards it so what fantastic let me give you an example this I want to I mean I stole this from Steven Covey okay or Kobe or whatever his name was I read some of his stuff I thought oh there was a good idea among the jumble that was in there this was a jewel and it's actually an extremely important problem-solving principle the other you know there are many other problem-solving principles that I use one of them is never make a big decision when a small decision will do so the but this this concept of beginning with the end in mind is extremely important and what we find when we try to hone in on what we most want in a situational reason why we're often confused about what to do is we've got multiple agendas so and and the agendas are inherently in conflict so this young lady would like to have a wild sexual adventure with this twenty five-year-old he met okay we know this she would also like to be married and with kids she also like that in in theory in her own head those two were somehow compatible because she can kind of smell that everybody else is going to say what are you crazy those aren't compatible goals okay but she's kind of not grasping that they're not compatible goals he's a little bit confused in this situation so this is where we have to back the camera up and get very very careful about what it is that we're seeking and so you know for from the sound of it and from the sound of her description of her life circumstances it doesn't really sound to me like getting married and having kids that high of a priority or she wouldn't be saying like quote now I'm ready to do this yeah that seems you know it seems like it may be a goal but it's not that big a goal and has never been that big goal the sounds like you know a maximizing sexualized excitation in the man-woman dynamic marketplace that sounds like that's probably been a very high goal nothing wrong with that that's stud stone-age process and so that stone-age process seems to still be dominating her decision-making strategy as it wouldn't surprise us and so but she's confused as to as to the fact that there are you know there are two separate agendas here and they are not actually the same agenda and so beginning with the end in mind means that we struggle very oftentimes to get clear what really is the end that I'm seeking and very often the end that you're seeking is incompatible with some other end that you would want okay and this this is the tough you know the tough struggle for clarity over what is in fact your most important value this is the the nature and the problem of integrity so integrity is the notion and that our behavior is integrated with our most important values this gets this can get difficult because in any given situation we can have multiple values that are in fact competing with each other and it can be difficult to know which one is in fact the most important value and we talk to one person and we get their perspective and suddenly value B starts to go get on top of value a and then we talk to somebody else and then pretty soon and value number C starts being more important than value B and value B's you know is still ahead of value a and then we go back and we go for a long walk on the beach and we really do some serious soul-searching and then we have a feeling come up when we listen to I don't know Barry Manilow or Frank Sinatra on the radio on the way home and then suddenly value a is more important again okay so we don't know why it is that these things make it again you can be tough and so that what what I do in my work in counseling people is to immediately try to hone in as best we can wait a second what's the most important value to you okay what is the most important in my advice this woman would be forget the 25 year old you you are on a very tight clock if you want a good husband and kids you better get on it right now and you better play really smart and you better have ten paid dates sitting in a written tattooed on your wrist okay and that needs to be the strategy because then three years from now when you're out of time then you can go play with every twenty five-year-old you want but if you actually if this is the most important value to you then that's what you do and that's how you play the game okay if it's not the most important value then let's think that through very carefully and then that will modify our strategy but that's the notion of how we solve these problems and sometimes the hardest step in the process of figuring out what the hell you're doing in life and where you're going and why is to actually figure out what your most important value is once you can get clarity on that and get solid on that a lot of times the rest of the of the program becomes relatively to figure out in to execute fascinating just fast hey all right we've got a caller on hold dr. Lyle so okay let's make it caller caller what's your name were you calling from my name is AJ and I'm calling from Los Angeles well hello AJ welcome back to show oh you tried to speak about us marvelous young chef educator a bj who is uh is a Hall of Fame vegetarians person has rows of note thank you very much for calling AJ what's your question it's my pleasure so my questions after Lyle indirectly has to do with one of your favorite topics self-esteem a few months ago I saw a movie that I felt was darling I enjoyed it I loved it and then you talked about it on the show and bashed the hell out of it it was called I feel pretty and he knocked you off of your pants okay go ahead glad so a couple weeks ago I saw another film that I thought was wonderfully uplifting and heartwarming and I walked out of the theater and I thought I wonder what dr. Lyle would think I bet he would bash the hell out of this movie - and the movie was called won't you be my neighbor and it was a documentary about mr. Rogers and as I was watching the movie I learned a lot about his life that I didn't know like the people picketed his funeral that a Wall Street Wall Street Journal reporter said that the reason the adults were so narcissistic and had a sense of entitlement was because mr. Rogers told everyone they were special and I was just kind of wondering what you thought of mr. Rogers do you think he did harm by telling everyone that they are special or do you think that that were just not all special and that that was a bad message that he was giving up in the 60s no there's no that that message isn't going to cause any damage or trouble and I I don't know anything about mr. Rogers I've seen some clips of him and because of that movie I actually saw and heard about little anecdotes and bits about his life and so I'm not going to sing his praises here too loud because I don't know enough about them and I you know I want to make sure that people understand my ignorance but the spirit of what I understand about this man seems holy he seems like a like he was a fabulous human being and so yeah there's a there's a world of difference between the the very gentle and gentle and strong humanism of what I understand this this man's life to have been based around and I feel pretty that these are like night and night a day they're not even there they're not in the same universe so yeah I actually intend to see this movie when I get a chance because I've been told by multiple friends that it's that it's something special oh great well I just glad because I was worried that you might not like utilizes and it would just make me feel bad because when people that I admire like you don't like the things I like them I start questioning my own judgment and I think he was a really cool guy and I know the beautiful movie and and I you know I just I'm glad that you don't think he's a jerk there you go there you go we can relax a film and so I didn't know God where is it don't know you're good not you good thank you good I'm gonna because of touch with you all right chef AJ thank you very very much for that Thank You AJ thank you for calling and I'll see you soon in poster what else comments on the movie when you see it on the show I'd love to hear your thoughts okay will do AJ thanks for calling yeah alright thank you so much Stephanie G yeah wow that's fascinating I just wanna are that you guys had last Sunday's just just phenomenal loved loved the interaction between you and dr. Goldhamer so the case case people don't know there was a webinar with the pleasure trap chef AJ recorded the audio book for pleasure shop and it was a webinar last Sunday so you can access it on these fans of the beat your genes podcast Facebook page there's a link there and just go on there and check it out alright dr. Lila that's it for tonight that's plenty for tonight thank you for having me it's always Nathan I'm just really happy that or that your place is up and going it's beautiful fabulous and I look forward to coming down next month and seeing you again at the faceting escape fantastic where everybody loved it we got some pictures up on the website fasting escape calm for those of you interested and dr. Lyle have a wonderful wonderful evening you too we'll see you soon
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