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Chef AJ: Momentum, Sleep, and Nuts | Healthy Living LIVE! Interview with Dr Doug Lisle
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hello hello hello welcome everybody it's a healthy living live we have our man of the hours dr. Doug Lyall back by popular demand and when I say popular demand we just had our live ultimate weight-loss conference in Vegas and people are giving us feedback about what they liked and what they want to see more of and dr. Lyle people said they could have watched you and dr. Goldhamer just the whole time you're qat that went for about an hour and 15 minutes they said it could have been two or three hours and they say they just love to see you talk so I'm really honored that dr. Lyle is doing this for us about once a month and today of all days which is his birthday so happy birthday dr. Lyle well thank you and this is what AJ sent me everybody so I now have i've got treats to eat during our during our session today absolutely i couldn't send you a carrot cake so I did the next best thing and and sent you some fruit so oh you think he really doesn't you guys so what I did is I post questions to the people that actually came to the conference because some of them didn't get their questions answered not because you weren't generous with your time you sat in that booth for hours but some of them didn't come to the carnival Saturday night and actually some of them had questions based on some of the things you talked about so I think they're pretty good questions but before I ask the first question there's the comment from Juanita she says don't have any new questions but please convey to dr. Lisle how much I really appreciate all he does for the members of the ultimate weight-loss program I personally have benefitted immensely more than words can express from all of the interviews YouTube videos and the replays he always addresses the questions I have and every time I listen or watch which is frequently I learn something new or a new slant on the subject let him know how much we more than appreciate him and I think everybody and thank you guys if you really appreciate dr. Lisle you're gonna share this broadcast in real time so the first question I think is a real good one and I'm gonna take myself off screen so you can see how nice dr. Lisle looks in his Hawaiian shirt is it people want to know how they keep the momentum high post-conference how do they keep it going well the thing that we're looking for is we're looking for a particular internal signal yeah when we're at the conference what you get is you get a lot of you've got external signals coming in part of the group and that you are that you're on the right track you're doing very positive things and so what this is and you feel when you remember that group you feel valued because you're you're who it is that you are your identity is a person who is trying to live healthfully is being affirmed by everybody around you so this is going to be what we call a scheme and that that's a very good feeling and it's a pretty loud feeling in other words when people give you good feedback that's uh that's that that's what's supposed to be a lot of signals sort of telling you that you're either going in the right direction if it's positive or in the wrong direction if it's negative so we're very sensitive to these sistene signals for other people about what we need to do when we go home we need to get tuned in to a quieter signal that is very very similar it's got a similar feel to it that it's about probably I don't know ten percent of the intensity and that's the internal audience it's the the very reason why you can feel good at the conferences that you know you are trying to do something very good for yourself and you also know that it's not an easy thing to do and then when you but you know that you have earned some esteemed even if you struggled and relapsed and run back and forth all kinds of challenges just the fact that you are there and that you are committed personally to try to move this direction and do well and if you've had very good success and done very well all of those things are things that you know about you that are that are deserving of respect from other people and when you get it and you haven't been you're surrounded by it that is esteem and that feels very good but you also have another internal signal that's really the most important one to learn about and that is because esteem signals from other people we are they're so they're so impactful emotionally that you can't miss them but what you can miss is you can miss a very quiet signal that we call self-esteem that's from your internal audience that's observing you and so the way you keep the momentum going on this program is actually getting attend to or learning to essentially be an expert and be sensitive to the self-esteem signals the signals that come from within my colleagues who I enjoy criticizing but in psychology it's very often the the internal criticism that often happens is usually seen as pesky annoying a curse a problem with human psychology you know some kind of bad thing in in cognitive therapy they call it the internal critic the I have a significantly different view even though I understand what my colleagues are saying and I understand that they've been troubled by this and they understand that people are that people suffer from this dynamic I don't believe that they understand the dynamic and so my understanding which is based in part on mark Larry's work why in Sochi ometer theory which is a fancy way of saying that there's been new information since cognitive therapy was developed in the 1960s is the notion that that we have an internal audience that is watching us and so it isn't just the audience on the outside that were we're sensitive to but also our internal you have an internal device a important part of Hootie's that we are that is observing our actions and so often in therapy that internal audience is being critical and so it's little wonder that therapists have considered this to be an annoyance and something to be stamped out or argued with or otherwise you know they they would just assume they could take a laser and go in and wipe it out but the truth of the matter is it's not a critic it's an audience and this is a critical distinction I guess you could call it a critic in the most formal sense of the word critic which is observer and neither being critical nor nor praising in other words being a neutral observer but that's not what they're referring to they're referring to that it seems to be irrationally critical and nasty now folks when your internal audience is is beating you up and criticizing you I would argue that it almost always has a point that it isn't always right and doesn't always have things in perspective but it generally has a point and so what we want to do is we want to get sensitive to to the fact that when we do things well the internal audience is not critical it's actually appraising us but sometimes that phrase feels pretty quiet it's not like the praise and support that you get at the conference it's a much more subtle a signal but it feels good I want you to get used to it this is similar to get used to looking for it this is similar to the a similar parallel issue goes on when people do a lot of healthy living because they get educated and they do this the thing that keeps them on a path of healthy living is not in fact the reduction of fear from heart attacks or cancer that is a sideline what actually keeps us on the healthy path is when it feels like to feel healthy that's what keeps us unhealthy truck so when I wander off if I wander into a piece of carrot cake but which I will occasionally do the next morning I don't feel quite as good okay hi I might even have some tonight on my birthday dinner but I might not the and it'll be a little dicey about whether I do or I don't because after all it's my birthday so I could legally and appropriately have a piece of carrot cake if I want but at the same time I might not even do it and the reason is is that tomorrow morning if I have a piece of carrot cake tonight which I would like I won't feel quite as good thing and I can tell the difference and so whenever I kind of maneuver out of line I can feel the difference but the only reason I can feel the difference folks is I'm looking for thanks when I used to be a conventional leader when I was 20 years old I didn't know the difference because every day felt okay and I was filling myself with the same kind of junky food every day so I didn't really know the difference it wasn't until my friend Alan pounded these truths down my throat that I had enough healthy meals in a row but I found out what it felt like to feel right and then whenever I got out of line then I could tell the difference so the way we keep on our momentum in this arena is really getting sensitive to two things but particularly the one that I'm most interested in psychologists is watching the internal audiences praise praise is subtle thing but it's beautiful it's a feeling of rightness with the world that where you're doing a good job that's what you know that that's what also keeps me eating clean because when I eat clean I also feel right physically so you know if I eat a little bit out of line I don't feel terrible I just don't feel quite as good and when I don't do quite as good a job on my diet I also or anything else if I don't do if I'm not quite as sensitive and pleasant to other people as I should have been then I don't feel is good my internal audience recognizes that I was a little bit impulsive and I was a little bit not as kind as I could have been and it watches me and it gives me that feedback and it says yeah that was some bb- work today that you did there and so and I want to feel as good as I can all the time so I'm not fanatic about it and I make plenty mistakes both interpersonal processes and then my diet and other things but the idea is to get sensitive to this changes so if you want to know how to contain your momentum the answer is is to to become a relatively careful observer of your internal process because when you see that you'll know what's causing you to feel good and what causes you to feel good is to do good job that's brilliant dr. Lisle a lot of people online or agreeing with you sherry saying I completely agree now that I feel so great from eating clean I'm not tempted by not complying food because I know that food makes me feel bad no thanks so a lot of people are agreeing with you a lot of people are wishing you happy birthday and you might want to know that you share a birthday with Tina's Rottweilers so that's some not very cool and you're the opposite of a Rottweiler you're more like it I would say you're like a golden retriever or a yellow lab so and this isn't a question but I want to say it before I forget because you talked about possibly creating a new talk for Vegas you know the last 20 minutes of the joint Q&A where you talked about balancing the ego trap and the pleasure trap that was some of the best a concise way to explain it and people can see that on YouTube or Thor on my mailing list we sent it out today so Tracy was saying that she would love it if you could prepare a longer lecture on that topic full of stories and your awesome drawings so I wanted to put it out there as a possibility that's it very that's a very good idea AJ you--you'll you can remind me of this that's good absolutely I think so as well so we have gotten so many questions about what you presented on sleep and there's another you too you did with me about the connection with Alzheimer's that people if they're on my mailing list they were sent to today and they can watch that and you also talked about at the conference so since so many of the questions are on sleep I'll just read all four or five of them and then you can go in any direction you want for example Angie said for those like she's a nurse and she said for those of us who may have damaged our brains from working night shifts and constantly switching sleep patterns can we repair the damage we have caused joe says is there ever a case where pharmaceutical assistance could help with somebody dealing with sleep issues or an erratic brain in general so we have a lot of people that are not convinced that coffee is that bad especially if they've already given up something like alcohol which they feel is worse and then we have people that are waking up at night for example maybe there are new mothers and they're waking up at night or maybe there are older people like myself that are getting up to pee and they seem to have trouble going back to sleep and so their risk worried that they're risking illness by waking up and not being able to get back to sleep so we've got a lot of people here that need your help but I won't remember all these questions but they see if I can talk the first one was about shift workers like nurses I think have they done permanent damage or can they repair the damage their permanent damage but there's no there's no reason to catastrophize there was a lot of us have done quite a bit of permanent damage so that doesn't mean that the damage is severe the it just means that that the answer is yes it would appear to be the case the so that the I think that for example when you reverse heart disease with Vanessa stone program you can reverse it but it's probably it's probably the case that some of the tissue that even though we go and you've done a bunch of reversals probably can't get perfect you know I mean you could probably get it back to excellent but probably not it's not as good as it would have been had it never been damaged before so that's how you look at this sort of thing so the so I never catastrophize over the past it's all about if you you have function now and what we want to make sure that we do is we protect the function very carefully that we have left and that we don't we're not careless with it and with any luck at all by by doing a good job here on out we won't have any catastrophic you know results as far as this goes the but I would expect I would expect let's suppose that you're you know this person's a nurse and we'll suppose that that let's so let's suppose on some some math test she could have she could get 86 out of a hundred if we gave it to her today and when she was eighty years old she could still get 78 out of 100 and now maybe with what with a little bit of damage that's been done maybe she could only get 77 or 76 out of it it's not like we should have any big issue if we step on this and we make sure that we protect our or the brain as best we can from here the in in the vegan world or the hyper healthy vegan world we've been very concerned about vascular disease inside this problem because we've been understanding with the brain that has to be flooded with nutrition and it needs to be that if we clog up the the arteries and we clog clog up the cardiovascular system cerebral rosco system that we're going to get significant damage it was called well off system that that explained to me many years ago that when they can't scan drains of people that were 50 years old they would see all these tiny tiny little micro dots all over the screen and they didn't know what they were and then of course what they were was some very very tiny little struts essentially very smaller as the brain were having clots in them and that they were being since it was shut off and a little bit of cell death was taking place all over the brain and thousands of patience that makes perfect sense and yet you couldn't see any difference in the people's cognitive function because it was declining very slowly and very slightly so it's it's a little bit like like a car that you take very good care of it but and but even you keep it in the garage and you take it to a nice car wash once a week but yeah as little tiny Nick's get in there every now and then some even very well-cared-for it's not the same as when it's Brendon so this is a way too long a way of saying don't worry about what's happened in the past our job is to make sure we take very good care of it in the future so so some other questions that come up from this are things like what if you get up in the middle of the night to pee this is not a crisis at all and if you can't get back to sleep that's okay the our job though is to be looking for times during during the morning and that day when you may find yourself tired and if there's a there's a way for you to get sleep then then do it if it's a if it's at all feasible the so we're not we're not worried too much about these things so however we do want to have good habits to make it less likely that you have to get up and pee but but we may not be able to do this people's platter size is different and it's also true that people in their natural history typically probably did not sleep through the night there was enough threats in the environment and enough anxiety about going to sleep and being subject to predators that you were a little edgy and after you could go through two or three sleep cycles and you slept three or four five hours it wouldn't be surprising for people to wake up and so and they might not get back to sleep for a while so we have enough of it if you're one of those people we want enough of an expanse of time between when we go to bed and when we have to do something the next day we might be up for a while in the middle of the night and we may you know we may be up for an hour maybe up for two hours and they only need to go back to sleep in the late morning and then sleep for another sleep cycle so we're not going to worry about it's not a problem that sleep is disrupted sleep comes in chunks those chunks are about an hour and a half long or given individual other sleep cycles and so it's unlikely that people during the night time ever wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle I mean they just drop almost certainly what would never do this you're you go down into a sleep cycle and then back up and then down and then up very often when people wake up I'm needing to pee they they've gone to cycles so they'll say yeah I always wake up at 2:00 a.m. they go to bed at 11 so they wake up after the second cycle what's happened is is that the brain is clean itself quite a lot so the person is now not nearly as cute after three hours of sleep as they were when they went to bed the brain is essentially a device that gets dirty during the day it's kind of like a restaurant all kinds of things are happening stuffs being chopped psych stuff's being cooked dishes are being dirty that's what's going on in the business of thinking and making decisions but taking actions during that during the day the end of the day of the nighttime that's like the nightshift comes in and cleans up that restaurant that's what the nightshift is for the question about coffee the answer is we need wrink coffee you are you are stopping the nightshift from doing its job well so you still have a night shift in there but somebody's got a broken arm and they can't clean up as much so by the time the next morning rolls around the restaurant is not clean and then you start the next day with a restaurant that's it's that's a little bit messed up and therefore not fully functioning and then we you know we wind up with problems now when it comes to to using caffeine what's actually happening is is that there's a chemical in your brain that builds up with every waking hour I don't know how to pronounce it it's called adenosine I probably pronouncing it incorrectly there's seven different transitions the but what this is is it's essentially a signalling device that that as it grows in concentration yet it's it's making you increasingly likely to feel sleepy so the longer you go if you're fully sleep satiated and you wake up in the morning your concentration of adenosine is very low the and then so low that you don't you're not going to feel sleepy and now as the day goes on it's getting it's getting more and more and more and more concentration as the brain is getting dirtier and dirtier from all the debris that's taking place because of all the cooking that's going on in the kitchen neurons are firing there's byproducts of that neurological firing or taking place basically the thing is starting to get backed up now as that happens adenosine is growing in concentration and it's causing the organism to feel sleepy what caffeine does is it blocks the action of adenosine it actually stops you from feeling sleepy now this is big trouble folks if you have a you torn ligaments in your ankle and I give you a drug that blocks the pain of the of the torn ligaments in your ankle then that would cause you to walk on that ankle and do further damage and you wouldn't know that it was happening and in the same way if you use coffee you are firing on a brain that wants to sleep david is actually fatigued and it's making you feel like it's not fatigue okay and so this is why coffee is such a massive it's hard for people to get out of now when it comes to the crimes of health how great is it it's not very great it's uh I call all these things the minor sins so coffees a minor sin cigarettes are a major sin what are other minor sentence well I don't know shouldn't run your oatmeal minor sin day these are all but coffee's bigger than that quite a bit bigger so the anything that's disrupting sleep alcohol is is a more significant sin than the coffee it's going to be more impactful but the alcohol and coffee both are actually significantly disruptive to sleep cycle and they're causing people to be to be chronically sick clogged so chronic sleep deprivation is a much much bigger health issue than I really had I didn't have any idea and so in examining the evidence now that I've looked at last couple three months I'm now I knew it was there but I just didn't know that it was as big as it is and it doesn't surprise me now that I'm seeing the evidence so I'm gonna just recap that evidence for people who haven't heard this the the evidence indicates that people that are slipped six hour night sleepers as opposed to eight-hour night sleepers are twice as likely to die of a cardiovascular event so that that is in the same class with diet that it's getting close the people that that are six hour days sleepers as opposed to eight hour days sleepers are forty percent more likely to get cancer that is also in the same class with diet okay in other words these are very similar effects to the effects that we see of the difference between a conventional diet and a good diet so this it isn't like diet is three times more impactful than sleep it's more like mmm it's pretty close to one to one they need two to one so diet is diet is the king but sleep is definitely the queen and exercise is the bishop that exercises is not as impactful as either one of these things and so so you should I just had a lady the other day say to me wow it's so glad you told me this because I've been waking up early in the morning to go exercise so I felt like that that was so important and it's been you know it's hard for me to do this I said absolutely not do not wake up early in the morning so that you can get in your exercise you are vastly better off sleeping to satiety you want to sleep to satiety as many nights seven as you can that's how we want to do this terrific and so uh Kristen and Janice are saying well what do you do when you wake up at 3:00 in the morning I suggest just putting on something that dr. Goldhamer has recorded and you'll get right back to sleep that's beautiful I said yes that works every time works for me the actually the the if you wake up this you notice these big individual differences in people's circumstances I what I want to do is I want to back something up because there's well I don't know there's like clogging the behavioral treatment for insomnia and you know it's successful to some degree and we can talk till until literally the cows come home about how it is that they're worse you know how it is that we could manage to get rid of our sleep problems now let me back the camera up and take a much wider angle view of these problems and see what we can see almost all health problems that we can do something about not all almost all know by I don't know get cut in a basketball game and it turns out I have some raging staph infection and it looks like it's going in my heart I will take data biotics okay Alan had that afternoon twenty years ago and he did not take the antibiotics and he immediately did a water fast and he sat right there for five days and watched his arm and he watched the the staph infection go up his arm and he watched it and he watched it and he watched it and he he I remember him telling me said boy this is one heck of an infection is it's pretty hard to stand up to the human body when it's healthy on a water fast and he ultimately did not have to take the antibiotics the the Bob the immune system was able to knock it out nobody Oh anyhow in their right mind would have done what he did but he knew what he was doing but I I wouldn't have had that kind of confidence and I would have gone to the doctor doctor Sultana or one of our our docs for doctor Lim and I'd say okay you do what you do so however Avast majority of health problems that we can do something about mostly what we need to do is diet sleep and exercise that's mostly what it is and most of the problems that people have with diet and sleep and exercise are simply the result of the modern world versus the ancient world and the ancient world these problems did not exist people didn't have bad diets because there wasn't any such thing as a bad diet so they didn't have they didn't have bad foods there wasn't any such thing as an exercise deficiency and needing to go to the gym because she had to work hard all day long just to get enough of the really healthy food that you needed to survive and people didn't have anything like remotely resembling insomnia how on earth you can have insomnia there's no fantasies flat screens with all sorts of interesting things to look at till the middle of the night okay and they aren't they aren't there are not sort of psychologically stress people worrying about things at the office but but all they do all day long is use their fingers no the people that were using their fingers were picking stuff and hiking up and down river valleys and goalies and so forth and by the end of the day they were very very comfortably solidly physically worked in fatigue and trust me if that's how it was you weren't worth waking up at 3:00 a.m. not possible you weren't like gee I just can't get back to sleep it's like oh yes you can you never woke up and if you did wake up you woke up because you heard some hyena you know whine a little too close and that got you up at the top of the sleep cycle but as soon as you saw that everyone was safe and then some other some other micro conscientious nutcase was awake and they were going to Eric gotta guard everybody you went comfortably back to sleep okay so what the reason I'm saying this is is that insomnia is a joke okay people are looking for the reasons for insomnia and we had another question about would there be a time in place for some medications for this now I could be a nice guy and say yes or I could be tougher and say not really they not if we're weren't wanting to get to the root of the problem if you if you had some reason why we wanted to step around a problem for a short period of time we might consider it but some sleep aid but the truth of the matter is is that we would never look to this as a long-term solution for anything and the reason is the only reason we have the problem is we've got some shift in reality between the human nature and the current environment that we find ourselves in and the solution is to fix the environmental disturbance it's not to alter the human okay so that would mean that a lot of people that quote have insomnia are used in coffee their wiring up the system they're using alcohol so that they're disrupting their sleep cycle they are staying up way too late they're fatigued so they're therefore not exercising very much the next day so etc they may be they may be eating you know foods that wind up being very uncomfortable for them to digest and then they're in pain and they've got inflammation if they're eating a lot of sodium they can wake up in the middle of the night thirsty which is an extremely common reason for people waking up in the middle of the night by the way not all the people that we're talking about here necessarily but that is a major reason that people wake up in the middle of the night is that they are thirsty as a result of eating a diet that's ten to fifteen times higher in sodium than human beings were designed for so as a result when we take the salt out of the diet we take the caffeine out of the diet we take the alcohol out of the diet we take the center and lifestyle out of the diet we the supernormal stimuli on screens out of the diet we get the Sun going down you have the person working physically hard all day long now do we have any sleep problems and people roll their eyes and say well I can't do all those things it's like well then no surprise that they've got 40 million people addicted to sleep aids right and yet it's not really restoring high quality sleep and it's not really helping them so the so the answer to the question is usually we want to walk the problem back to the Stone Age and we want to see what is the root of the problem in the modern environment that is the the cause of a disconnect between human nature and the environmental inputs that the person is being subjected subjected to and usually when we fix that we fix the problem thank you actually more precious yeah and actually interestingly enough in in this book dr. Matthew Walker who's the head of a sleep lab at UC Berkeley obviously a fabulous scholar that wrote this book called why we sleep the he explains that your need for sleep does not decrease image which is very interesting a lot of lot of things that I learned so much from this book I just can't praise it enough I'm gonna have to go back this is one of these books there's books that I'm destined to read once there's books that I'm destined to read only half of the time because I'm skimming it half the time and there's books that I'm destined to read five times and why we sleep is one of these books that I'm going to end up reading five times the it's that good well the pleasure trap is one of those books you could definitely be my times so people are saying but is decaf coffee okay or what about more natural sleep aids like magnesium supplements or melatonin yeah remember our ancestors didn't need any sleep aids so why is it that we're having a sleep aid the the answer would be no let's correct the problem between the person and their let's do that let's let's search for the solution that way decaf coffee now listen I am as I've told people my grandfather was a Methodist minister and so it comes pretty easy to me to be kind of preachy no I've been I've been by my parents and my sister I always like sort of rolled their eyes of me I was the youngest in the family and yet I was the prettiest you know even at ten years old so it's still it comes easy to me but but I've got I've got an accepting psychologists side that of course my friend Alan doesn't have and so so as a result I have one a temper this we are talking about some things that are useful to know about but they are not they're not at the level of some of the major health problems that were that we generally try to address we try to go after big things in people's diet we want to get rid of the unhealthy horrendous things we want to get rid of the rich foods that are causing all kinds of mischief and causing people to be overweight and disrupting their lives in a myriad of ways it's not just physically but also emotionally so we want to do all those things when we start talking about decaf coffee let's understand what we're talking about we're now we're now starting to work our way down through some reasonably fine details but they're not trivial and that's kind of what it is that that that's why we're having this conversation it's because the people that I'm talking to are already very well educated in some of these other major issues and they understand that there's challenges but they're working towards those but they may not have been taking seriously something like coffee or decaf coffee they would have thought that was plenty good enough but decaf coffee as I don't know about 25% of the caffeine that's in regular coffee and as a result is plenty of caffeine in there to be disrupting sleep during the night time during various sleep cycles it's clearly obvious from the research evidence and so what are you doing you're just robbing the system of getting complete sleep and what does that do well who knows you may never just like people that need a couple of candy bars every day of their life or dr. pepper they may never see a gross pathology from this and they may never know what it would have been like to feel better from not doing it and they may never pay any huge price for this except that they kind of they kind of lid this thing in terms of they only ever fell to 80-percent as good as a human being can feel the same thing is and they may have been increased their risk of trouble along the way but they may have dodged those bullets that's fine one out of five smokers doesn't apparently pay any price in terms of their longevity from smoking Wow one out of five okay spin the wheel because the other four pay an eight to ten year price and their life it's the largest single possible mistake that individuals make in terms of their health so the next one would be diet the next one would be sleep the next one would be being sedentary so the so but does everybody pay a price from cigarette smoking no amazingly enough it appears that one out of five literally just threads their way through a minefield of disasters and manages to walk upright on the other side okay the lived in 92 years old and maybe icons for the wool about how it doesn't matter whether you smoke or not it's just ludicrous okay and so many people are going to use coffee and they are going to disrupt their sleep cycles and we will find ultimately with enough research that essentially it's going to turn out that people that are using decaf coffee are instead of having a 38 percent chance of having dementia when they're 82 or 85 if they live that long they have a 42% chance it's like and you might say that doesn't seem that much different 3842 maybe I'll have my coffee it's like yeah but you might live a long time between your 85th birthday and your 95th birthday and you might live 10 years demented okay that you would not have lived them into so the one of the odds maybe not that much more maybe one in 25 but this is what we're here to do we're here to be looking for the subtle but important details that can sometimes make the difference between health and disease or success and failure and things like caffeine and alcohol these are things that are subtle that important factors many people will skate without any discernible damage some people will not and you know we're just here to let you know this is one of those things and the way the caffeine is going to be doing its damage is it's going to be doing just damage through the quality and quantity of sleep that you're going to get and the quantity quality of sleep looks like it's a pretty big deal thank you dr. Langer and and I'm Kristen because that's good so we have some questions about particular foods that people feel they need to include in the diet and at the ultimate weight-loss conference dr. love dr. Goldhamer was asked about this and dr. Barnard dr. Olivera and they all said it's not necessary but a lot of people in general and people in the ultimate weight-loss programs specifically feel that if they don't eat nuts every day they're not going to have longevity they're not going to be able to absorb them micronutrients and their greens if they don't eat legumes they're told they're the most important predictor of survival and the thing is is we have people in the group they can't eat legumes they are just either allergic or intolerant with things like IBS and siebel but some of these doctors say you have to eat legumes no matter what you to be in a day but there are people that can't and with the nuts we have many people for whom in the group if they eat one not they eat a pound and in your book the pleasure trap you have a chapter about looking for health in all the wrong places where people seem to be much more excited about deficiencies than what the real problem is which is excess so I wonder if you could speak to the fact that that we're it's not like we're gonna live 10 years longer from eating nuts and beans if they're causing us some kind of either gastric or mental distress this is just uh I think I could I could tell you the story I'll tell you the back the back story this was 20 years ago and the father had had a was in serious trouble he was in his late 60s and he had he had lecture two ever many that he ever ran into about how they should eat a vegan diet that his that his son was promoting and then at his own dinner table he would cheerfully and defiantly eat steak in front of me and uh you know like everybody else it's not like he didn't know so he he was going to preach to everybody about what they should do and they should listen to me and listen to Alan Goldhamer and John McDougall but he himself wasn't going to do it and didn't and the survives late sixties he had probably now we know had probably had several heart attacks but he was tough enough I'm lucky enough that you kind of didn't know it and then he finally had a pretty big event and he was in the hospital and was in almost an emergency bypass situation anyway I was I was terrified enough and he was terrified enough and the long story short is that he had a bypass and we we probably wouldn't do it just tricky him enough situation that we might even do it a second time he said he was in the statistical category where theoretically he was better off it so he was a rare or kind of a situation so we did it and of course he almost died he is extremely fortunate not to die he was essentially counted out by by the surgeon and he managed to crawl his way out of this hole and so we spent days staring at the staring at his blood pressure monitor and his kidney function monitoring in intensive care and he amazingly crawled his way out it's interesting that at the end of all this I could tell that he had had a significant hit in terms of brain damage when you have the surgery not severe so he wasn't as smart as he was before but he was still him and he came back and he came back pretty well and so about a year afterwards I called him on his birthday and he was down at my sister's place and they were with my famous brother-in-law Big D and they were all cheerfully insulting indulging themselves and they're all I think happy that I wasn't there and I'm people know me I'm not preachy I'm very easy to get along with but they know that I know and and so my dad also never one to back away from an argument proudly announced to me that he was having salmon and I I wasn't happy about this conversation and I said essentially you've got to be kidding me yeah how how close to the grave you have to get or you get this message how lucky you have to get and so he starts to argue with me about how he needs to he's read do you need the Omega threes said you don't need anything you're out of your mind and this argument continued which of course I started to win the content of this argument in a matter of seconds and he was gonna defy and defend I said listen you know you to your life you've been given a second chance you know your your plan the cards not me you do it any way you want but you're not gonna convince me you're playing smart that you won't - okay I hung up the phone and in the next five seconds a memory came to me I was at the back of an English class in seventh grade and the guy they taught the class was a guy named mr. Marco and he was about six foot eight very geeky guy nice guy and who was sitting next to me but Alan Goldhamer and we're in the back of the class and Alan Corps says no interested in a class all he wants to talk to me got me in trouble my whole life I was constantly trying to keep us out of trouble and he didn't seem to care he never bothered Alan to get into trouble so Alan is constantly talking to me and he's not like gonna whisper so mr. Marco it goes like this and Sherlock system just - Watson Alan he says Watson this is Elementary Alan that's gone and I'm anxious I'm telling us quiet should be quiet and Alan keeps talking mr. Marco keeps telling Alan to be quiet and I'm hearing the story behind this of Sherlock Holmes and it's the case of silver blaze and it's about the mystery of the strange incident of the Curious Incident of the dog in the night-time and how the and Holmes keeps mentioning that that's the key to the mystery and someone says but the dog did nothing in the night I'm home says but that's the Curious Incident hey and I remember that that was in seventh grade the back of mr. Marcos English class and that little light went on in my head and I thought boy is that an interesting concept that something that you don't see winds up being incredibly important I had that feeling again when I saw the Magnificent movie a few good men and Tom Cruise at one moment he is his mind is spinning as he's trying to figure out what goes on in this in this mystery of this young man who was killed by his comrades accidentally and he he has his baseball bat on his shoulder and he goes into his closet and he comes out of his closet and he realizes that the closet of the young boy who they said was packed up to leave home was in perfect order when he had been killed and therefore he was not packed up to go home as they were professing and in that moment essentially he realizes it's what you didn't see is what's important same concept the great mystery of a few good men and how it's solved is solved by exactly the same principle that Sherlock solves a problem or the case of silver ones it's a fantastic thing of looking in the wrong place and knowing what to look for and when I hung up the phone from my dad you know my my right brain searched around in my great frustration that Allen and I had been talking to people for years about these things and over and over again for 20 years we had been already answering questions about yes but where'd he get your protein from them yes but where'd he get your calcium what do you got this what about that everybody's so interested in talking about deficiencies and nobody was interested in talking about excesses and so that the moment where I was fed up with my own father who was trying to sell me on the idea that he had a deficiency of essential fatty acids which is why it is that he damn near died okay I'm like no I don't know who's selling you the snake oil but as I would learn what John McDougall would say people love to hear good news about their bad habits okay and it's disgusting when you feel like the people on the other side of it are not interested in the truth but all we're trying to do is sell people good news about the bad habits so that I can get real edgy about that and I was edgy that day and I hung up the phone and I instantly realized that's an article on your life and so I wrote an article called looking for health on all the wrong places I was beautifully edited by my good friend Jim Lennon who is the past president of the American natural hygiene Society terrific man and he edited this thing and he loved that article and yet pictures of Sherlock there and then that became that then morphed into a chapter in the pleasure trap it's one of my favorite chapters the and it's a it's a pet peeve of mine and certainly of Allen said but we were so used to it and we kicked these problems back so quickly we never take the time to like pound them into smithereens because we're so disgusted that the questions are even being asked not by the well-meaning people but by the fact that there's a there's a background of music that is never shuts off about beating this drum that has no sense of being beaten okay no you don't need nuts no nuts are not going to help you live longer it's ridiculous and so any doctor that says so is not looking at the evidence they think they may be looking at the evidence maybe they don't know how to read the evidence but there's nothing special about nuts okay they're just a there are full natural food as long as it's full natural they're a whole natural food that's no better and no worse than other whole natural foods and that's a problem but they're extremely calorically rich anybody that says it's not going to put weight on some people doesn't tell them the truth extremely high fat food of course they're going to put fat on people that's not who you are do you happen to be naturally really thin you can eat hands full of nuts genetically you could easily handle this and it's not a problem but a lot of people will have a problem now so the people that are saying that you need to eat this and you need to eat that in order to increase your likelihood of life either number one or consciously not telling the truth or number two are ignorant and don't know what the facts are the if anybody wants to know you can look up on the Cochrane Collaboration which is the most respected independent medical scientific organization of the world it's done by twenty eight thousand volunteers they are very sophisticated people they hold very high degrees you have to have a great deal of hoops that you must jump through in order to be a Cochrane collaborator it's really not something simple to do and the entire purpose of the Cochrane Collaboration was that was the notion of being able to not look at one study and give an opinion but to look at multiple studies and to combine them and to do a sophisticated analysis to try to figure out what the truth is because they knew that there was a problem in science that a rogue finding could set off a field in other words everybody could believe something that wasn't true well what happens when you have a second finding that is in contradiction well it could be the data could have happened randomly or through subtle issues and how does he do the study so what if you do a third study in a fourth study what if you were to combine the studies statistically and it would point you towards what the probable truth is it's exactly like taking a poll in a presidential election or any other election you don't want to really rely on one poll because it could be biased you don't want to rely on the other poll everybody wants to point at the poll what they like doesn't this sound a lot like nuts let's point to the poll we like I'll tell you a study that shows this really how about if we combine all of the studies but are of sufficient quality that weren't paid for by nut Mayers and let's look at what the outcomes are and find out from that that's what you would do if you're a political scientist trying to find the truth of an election and it's precisely what the Cochrane Collaboration is tries to do when they try to find out what medical procedures or medical hypotheses are true in which words aren't true and the Cochrane Collaboration has looked at the nut issue and they've said there's nothing there no surprise if you told me that that strawberries were a fantastic food that was going to save your life I'd say that's baloney there's nothing better or worse from a strawberry from a peach from an apple from the piece of asparagus anything else in the decide these are all foods that would be inconsistent with the amounts or history of the human animal and the big problem isn't what's positive in the food the big issue that hurts people is what did what excesses that your unnatural food is causing in terms of metabolic toxicity that's the problem heart disease isn't caused by a deficiency of anything it's caused by the excess of things that the body can handle okay so the the deficiencies in life are sleep exercise and sunshine those are the deficiencies the accesses are dietary drugs and dietary imbalances that are caused by a diet that's inconsistent with the naturalness of the organism so no you don't need to eat some specific berries you don't need to eat any specific greens you don't need to eat any specific nuts you don't need to eat anything specific and I will take on anybody any time and they have to face the following argument that under a withering fire of which there's no escape you take a pathology and then you I will you can take your diet full of whatever super foods you think are going to fix it and I'll put them on a water fats and feed them nothing all right we will find out that feeding people nothing will get sick people way fast or more effectively more completely across the wider range pathologies then any special superfood diet that you could ever give anybody okay we'll take that experiment I'll take on anybody I will challenge them to take on something for example we've already published let's take on their super foods against what we've shown in hypertension see about that let's take their super foods and see if they can get a reversal and a complete eradication of a stage three cancer that we have these are published studies out of True North they'll say so the answer to the question you got me all hyped up AJ on my birthday no I can get passionate about this because I can just see people confused frustrated uncertain and worried okay I'm not I'm worried I'm not getting enough of this I'm worried I'm not getting enough of that and it's the answer is don't worry about getting enough of anything the only thing you need to worry about is getting too much okay your job is to get to eat a reasonably balanced diet of healthy foods get exercise get sleep get some sunshine that's it okay if you have some strange unusual bizarre quality as a result of some kind of dysfunction or some genetic abnormality it may be true that a very wise knowledgeable nutritional doctor might know something that you can take in terms of concentrated nutrition that could have a pharmacological impact that would be useful a very sharp medical doctor also might give you medicine it might be able to Mickeymouse your way and help some process as well so there's a time in place for either concentrated nutrition or concentrated or medicine literally a chemical alteration of your body that could be useful but in general in principle in terms of the notion of how it is that we're going to support the health of the body we are not going to support the health of body by concentrated anything forget about it and don't worry about needing to eat any kind of food you think you need to eat nothing you need to eat brown rice and broccoli and you are good to go you're not happy unless you're Alan Goldhamer you would be fine thank you so much dr. Lau because I have a very good friend watching this broadcast live that is absolutely obsessed with nutrient density she will not eat rice she will not eat potatoes and so thank you for saying that and it's like nutrient density paints everybody with the same brush which I know you think is not ever really a good idea so thank you for saying that people are loving this they're loving your laughs they're all continuing to wish you happy birthday and as far as feeding people nothing we have watching live our good friend dr. Nate Gershenfeld who has a wonderful new fasting center in Yorba Linda California it is beautiful and if you're lucky enough to be there dr. Lyle often lectures there live once a month and so please you know go to fasting escape calm and get more information and you might be lucky enough to be there when dr. Lyle is speaking so I don't want to keep you one minute longer on your birthday we do have more questions but I'm hoping that you will come back next month and answer them fantastic you bet I realize that's right they have a happy birthday and we appreciate you so much dr. Lyle alright I'll see y'all soon I thanks everyone for watching
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