Home 🏠 🔎 Search


Bad Transcripts
for the
Beat Your Genes Podcast & More

Chef AJ: Healthy Living with Chef AJ - Guest Doug Lisle, PhD
an auto-generated transcript


To get a shareable link to a certain place in the audio,
hover your mouse over the relevent text,
right click, and "copy link address"
(mobile: long press & copy link address)
 


hey everybody and welcome to healthy living my guest today is none other than one of my favorite people in the whole world dr. Doug Lyall dr. Lisle is the psychologist at both the True North health center and the mcdougal Levin program both located in Santa Rosa California he is the co-author of this amazing book called the pleasure trap he is the founder of the website esteem dynamics org and much to my surprise he's had a podcast for a year he never told me but he is doing this wonderful podcast called beat your genes it's an evolutionary psychology podcast that airs on iTunes and blog talk radio you can listen to it live every Wednesday night from 8:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. Pacific time and you can even call in and ask questions and thanks so much for being here dr. loud you're my favorite person to talk to I think I'm so much from you very close very close so I'm interviewed but you before but why am i interviewing you again because I'm gonna be seeing you very soon in Vegas and if you want to see dr. Lyle live consider coming to the live ultimate weight-loss conference in Vegas and I know we're going to talk about some of these things but for whatever reason you've had this podcast for a year and I kind of slipped under the radar for me and a lot of people and then I find out about it on June 18th and I literally listen to all 73 episodes in about 18 days and the reason I wanted to interview you is because I I saw a different or I heard a different side of you because I'm used to seeing you you're like the opposite of dr. Goldhamer you know you're this very kind of kind and gentle not that you're mean on the podcast but I think of you as just very pleasant and I another side of you came out in the podcast it was a little bit edgier perhaps a little bit more direct and the reason I wanted to talk to you is because there are things that I've heard you say in the wonderful lectures that you've given it the MacDougall program and at true north and that are available for free on your website is Team Dynamics that organ that I've seen you give at conferences then I watch over and over to learn these principles and every now and then you throw out a line where it would just sort of land it in my memory but I really wasn't sure exactly what you meant we it never got talked about in detail but in the podcast it does and so I've written up we'll get to all of them but I've written out a list of things it's sort of intersected things that you've touched on in your lectures to the more general health community that I think people should know and again I really encourage you to listen to these podcasts you are making my exercise life so easy because when I listen to your podcast a hundred minutes goes by I'm still on the bike and the class ended you know 40 minutes ago so good for you for that so one of the things let's just get started is that once heard you say in one of the talks you gave at one of the mcdougal Advanced Study weekends that weight is the number one predictor of self-esteem in a female and you said that and there were other things in the lecture and it just sort of kind of stayed in my memory bank and as I started running the ultimate weight loss program I noticed that it seemed to be right what you said that it almost seemed like there was an inverse correlation almost the more overweight a woman was it almost seemed like the lower her self-esteem was and one of the reasons I want to do this is not to make people feel bad for being overweight or having low self-esteem I want people to be empowered especially women right before we got on this this interview I was interviewed by a physician for her podcast and said why do you do what you do because it drives me crazy when women are not empowered I want to them to feel empowered but in your podcast you went into this from a little bit different angle and more in detail that there really is a cost for being overweight in our society especially for a female and I'm not talking about what the medical doctors say about heart disease and diabetes and all cause mortality we're talking about a cost emotionally in the workforce in romantic relationships and especially for a female as she's maturing and it what made me sad because I believe that it's true because I grew up the fat girl with brothers that told me the guys don't date fat girls and it turned out that at least in the 60s and 70s they were right I didn't get asked to my prom and you know I just please you know one of the things you said that blew me away is and again this is not about shaming people this is about empowering them is that you said that behind closed doors your male clients will say things to you like I am not sexually attracted to my wife because she's overweight and again I don't want to make people feel bad and doing this because I want them to solve this problem and feel good but but what you're saying is like it was mind-blowing it's because nobody's talking about this because it's so important to be politically correct at people and want them to know that there is a cost and and and that there is something they can do about it of course so take it away well there is a cost and in everybody that deals with the way issue it is dealing with that costs and everybody's situation is different so the personalities are different and their personal circumstances are different so there are certainly women they are very overweight that have very high self esteems extremely confident they're competent they get a lot of a feedback from the world so we wouldn't want to paint everybody the same brush there are thin beautiful people whose self esteems are in tatters because they've got unrealistic expectations for their life and they they had a lot of problems and they've got natural emotional instability so when we when we make a comment like self-esteem is the weight is the number one predictor of women's self-esteem we're making out on a statistical basis looking at a broader population in some survey and certainly it is obvious when we look at our country if you go into a bookstore on Amazon where you look at any magazines you're gonna find that all over the magazine covers our wait wait wait wait wait it was the entire country is obsessed with weight issues and the reason why that's true that didn't happen by accident it happened because here in the last 50 years this population has become very overweight and as a result of that there's been shrinking losses at the individual level in their own lives and individuals lives as a result of this and so therefore they are they feel that psychological pain they are aware of where it's coming from and they seek assistance so to get out in front of Good Housekeeping magazine this secret in cosmopolitan they seek it at the doctor's office is secretive every weight loss you know snake oil medicine you know per their and they seek it with us and so we we are trying to guide people along the pathway you and I and John McDougall and Alan gold hammer and Neal Barnard Colin Campbell and Cole Wilson and Dean Ornish and joel fuhrman and a little game okay where we're all trying to point people in a way to lose excess weight in the healthiest fashion possible and so we're trying to help them do this a healthy astray that we can we can guide them but along the way we know that what's motivating them is rarely health concerns sometimes and often times they ancillary health concerns so we will hear that but the thing that we hear most is the self esteem crying out for relief the person feels very internally critical a lot of our people are very conscientious so they wouldn't be with us they'd be doing some other smoke-and-mirrors solution they tend to be intelligent it tend to be conscientious and they tend to have a lot of standards for themselves for the behavior that are pretty high because there's usually very competent people in their own workplace and their lives or their home with their kids so their expectations for their ability to manage the problem are pretty high and this problem is so slippery and such a remarkably deceptive trap that the bakery really felt if we're going to destroy what we kill and so whether it's our people or its people in the broad public people are scrambling for an answer to this problem they are rarely finding it and as a result they continue to get emotional prices that you see are motivating the national recession with this problem well that makes sense do you think some of the emotional prices that they pay are and and why is it seeing that women seem to pay higher prices than men yes I believe women I'll probably do pay higher prices and then I'm not sure that's true but I would be very surprised if it were not true the reason why that would be true is that access way impacts your appearance it makes you less desirable makes people want to be close to you and touch you less people are less sexually attracted to you people find you to be essentially if we looked it at very detailed analysis we're going to probably find people find you less trustworthy and less intelligent which is completely ridiculous but it is nevertheless inferences that I believe people are making and I might call it fascism in other words there's a there's a almost a natural bias against people that are overweight for you know along many dimensions of personality that are not true but but are nevertheless inferences that I believe that people make and as a result of that they're aligned and we've women paid a price higher and I believe they pay a higher because in case of attractiveness sexual attractiveness it turns out that what makes people appealing is significantly their physical presentation it's not everything in other words people are very interested in another person's mind they're interested in a personality their intelligence their background and their culture certainly the inner beauty person is very important and a romantic process but the external what we look like is very important and it's going to turn out that it's going to turn out that it is is the issue of excess fat will be a bigger penalties to women but it's an N all things being equal so I think that men are probably is overweight in this country as women are I believe that statistically is probably pretty similar they're all eating about same foods so I believe that's the case however when it comes to the aesthetic price that people pay when a greater price I believe because part of the problem in the animal kingdom for males is to try to figure out whether females are pregnant and so mills tend to not be interested in females throughout the animal kingdom when they are pregnant and the only time in our natural history when women were substantially overweight and they had their waist lines were much larger than their hips I was when they were pregnant and so it is undoubtedly the case that men are inferring that women are pregnant when they are substantially overweight and therefore this hugely impacts the woman's sex appeal and that doesn't mean that there aren't men that are not attracted over women and it doesn't mean that there aren't men that aren't very attracted to their overweight lies I would just say that if we were to run a careful survey and we were to determine whether or not excess weight on a meal or excess weight on a female was paying a larger price for their aesthetic appeal I believe it is overwhelmingly miss that women is priced much greater than men and therefore women having my straight obsession with this problem and a great deal more pressure so that's that's why I think that is I believe you said because there were no overweight people in the Stone Age that the only possible way for somebody to be overweight would be either if they were pregnant or maybe taking more than their fair share which is why some of these inferences occurred but because there are people that have judgments that oh well if you're overweight you're lazy and and that's absolutely absolutely not true but that in the stone age if somebody was considerably overweight they were taken more from the collective right didn't you say that once I did say that and I believe that's probably true in other words I can't believe that in the same age when we did a lot of food sharing that there listen scrutiny on people's waste lines and that there wasn't there wasn't some essentially social sensitivity to the fact that if food was limited and one person was carrying an extra 20 pounds that that others weren't on inferring that that person wasn't getting more than their fair share now whether or not that's true or not it's kind of irrelevant I believe that those inferences would have been made and I believe that those inferences linger in the subconscious of modern humans I think that I think that we make that inference in its I don't think it's an unreasonable inference I don't think it's true but it's not an unreasonable inference and it's one that comes quite naturally I read things that overweight people are discriminated against in the workplace and that they don't necessarily make as much pay I mean that I mean so I want to try to empower people that there's other reasons to lose weight other than just your cardiovascular health that it will improve many areas of your life like your self-esteem so more people are overweight than not now you know so will it become just that this is how we are and that we neuro adapt to overweight people so now everyone will think they're more attractive or as ours are Stone Age brain just still gonna say nope look better yeah our Sunday's brain will not change but words are Sonny's brain is going to carry the same aesthetic ideals they'd go back 100 thousand years so you go back and you look at statues of Venus made in Rome or in Greece 2,000 years ago 3,000 years ago you will find that those measurements are 36-24-36 five foot four and so I've been there I've seen those touches and so the ascetic ideal for Humanity is embedded into the genetic code that's what it is so it's not going to change I do believe that people that are overweight today there is so much company there's so many people that are 40 or 50 pounds overweight that the price if you pay generally socially is not as high as it would have been 50 years ago 50 years ago you would have been sticking out like a sore thumb today you're just kind of along with the pack but what it doesn't so socially the impact is much less sexually and romantically I don't believe the impact is less in other words ah I believe these very same aesthetic circuits of sexual appeal are going to remain it's a relative constant and I think that in other words I believe that the entire culture is paying a major price in general and much great reduced life satisfaction in battle Rena behind that reason I think there may be reasons why things are better in some ways I think people have more access to more partners and with the internet they can they can find people that can fit with them better in many ways so I think that you know I don't think it's just all bad news in the modern environment but I think that the the main effect or the main problem with his face today that is the main feature of human and self-esteem suffering is going to be in a Western world it's going to be excess weight on both males and females but predominantly the place being heavier many females and how it is that they feel about themselves and it influences a multitude of the relationships in the world the primary one being where they stand with respect to romantic partnerships it turns out that the research evidence is absolutely consistent with this interpretation and in relationships were where it is believed by a male and female the male is more attractive and female the female feels tremendous pressure of ever wait in situations where the partners sense and how the tacit understanding of the female is more attractive than the male and the female is not sensitive an interest about their weight so these are very interesting parts of the romantic interplay to take place between men and women and they're not going away no matter it no matter how overweight the populace becomes you had a caller on your podcast that said well what do I do because I'm ugly and you were very sensitive and kind said well I'm not going to use that word I'm going to say less attractive and the advice you gave were to change the things you can change I mean we you know of course there's without plastic surgery there's certain features that we have but our weight is one of the things we actually can change and you talked about how important it was to get fit and and as hard as it is to to overcome weight loss obstacles that is something that is changeable you know maybe our eye color or not you know we can't always change this but and that's why I I know a lot of people are saying will I try it's hard you know are there what else can women do them to feel empowered and raise their self-esteem if they've completely given up on this weight loss journey I mean how else do we raise our self-esteem well you your self-esteem is basically coming from a few different sources so it's coming from the feedback you get from males about your tractive miss it or females if you happen to be so inclined the it also has to it feedback from friends about how much they value you as a person and it also in the workplace about whether people value what it is that you can contribute to society in the economic workplace also the feedback that you get from children or family about your value as a mom or a friend or sister or daughter and also from your internal audience that is a feature of human psychology that that makes us really unique we essentially have a bunch of learning people sitting inside of our head that are sort of watching what we do and how we do it I knew they were there my whole life I knew there was people in there strange little people there's sort of family there's sort of ourselves there's sort of other people out there in society watching us there are not any specific individuals what they are is they are a is a statistical composite of the people that are kind of important to us and it's just sort of a mythical set of people when people say things like I'm so disgusted with myself what that is is that's the internal audience speaking to the self okay you yourself or the one that's pulling the strings and actually you know washing the car and going to work and going to the gym that's yourself you internal audiences effectively not you it's a difficult set of people that are watching this whole process and they're giving you a nice steady stream of feedback about how well they think you're doing it and when you so this winds up being an important component of what we're going to call yourself esteem and so it isn't just feedback from the opposite sex it isn't about our sex appeal it isn't just feedback from friends it isn't just feedback from the workplace and it's not just feedback from family it's also to feedback from our internal audience and so one of the most important things that we can do to raise our self-esteem is to do a fine job at living in front of the internal audience when nobody's watching okay so we're not going to be perfect we've all got foibles and funny little things that we do they're a little goofy the internal audience doesn't care about that the internal audience cares about how well are you preparing to contribute to relationships with other people are you taking care of your body are you taking care of your finances are you doing a good job with respect to your friendships are you taking care of family in other words you know your your home your car your hair all about you your internal audience just watching your efforts it doesn't demand that you work feverishly to put your best foot forward every second yeah it demands that you do a good job and if you don't do a good job it gives you feedback that it's a little disgusted with you and so it turns out that when we struggle with the pleasure trap and eat a lot of unhealthy food the internal audience is chirping away it is basically saying I'm kind of disgusted you know better you're I'm kind of disgusted you are causing us being a body that isn't feeling you know and we're not going to have a good romantic experience in this life as a result of this you are costing us it's a bet effectively being finger a leader of the cell and it's shaming the self so people will feel guilty that's the self responding to the feedback from the internal itis the internal audiences expectations are usually recently in other words it's not easy to just say I was just forget it who cares the internal audience is aware of it you live your life in a competitive matrix that you must compete for mates you have to compete for friends and you have to compete in trade and so the internal audience is aware of your efforts as you go about the business of attempting to be competitive and if you are doing a mediocre job preparing to be competitive then it gives you the feedback and it says you're screwing up you're doing a lousy job and I'm kind of disgusted with you that disgusts self feedback is not in cognitive therapy for as much good as calling a therapy sometimes can do cognitive therapy misinterprets this feedback quite often they misinterpret is they call this internal audience that called the internal critic so they have arrived at very similar theories to where it is if I sit slightly different there's a difference between an audience and a critic the audience the critic in the true sense of the word critic of which there's neither positive or negative I would agree okay so you can call it the internal critic but that's not what they're saying and in therapy they're saying that you have an internally critical voice that is chirping at you and kind of making your life miserable and you need to talk back to gain from prayer this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the internal critic the internal critic is not a critic it's an internal audiences sometimes critical that scrit achill is critical for a reason and that reason is that this is a evolutionarily engineered signal to tell you that you are dropping the ball you are being either lazy or you are being having a lack of courage you are trapped by some set of motivational forces that are overwhelming you into not putting forth an excellent effort and if you do not for whatever reasons but for excellent excellent effort your internal audience will be critical with you ok that is fair they are trying actually to help you because the airline routine there like coach their coach the selling you hey there's a problem with your form there are there's the problem of the with the way you're practicing and the fastest way to change the internal character of how this that we feel about ourselves it's not to talk back to the internal critic the fastest way is to do a better job okay if we do a better job even even within minutes we can start to watch the internal audience start to to shift its tone a little bit by the time you put in a diligent hour your internal audience can feel somewhat better it may still be pretty critical and I trust you it may not feel like you're going to continue doing a good job but if you do if you do a good job or several days in a row if you do a good job for a couple of weeks in a row the internal audience will definitely change it so into a very positive set of feedback and that will be the stream of internal feedback that will be hitting yourself the same mechanism you will feel much better about yourself even though nobody else has noticed any improvement so that's what I'm after for people I want them to to see the immediate and authentic relief of doing a much better job those kinds of personal processes because their internal earnings will absolutely give them great feedback so are people that are perfectionists - they have a more critical internal audience because there are some people that seem to even when they're doing what I would think is a great job they're like oh no so is it possible that our internal audience is very as far as how clinical they are no question so the that is through your internal audience kind of takes on some of your personality characteristics because it's kind of you Wow so that is true so if you happen to be naturally extremely conscientious then you're going to have very high standards and your internal audience will demand their high standards out of you and so that's just sort of too bad that means that you can get that same feeling and self-esteem that anybody else can get except that you're probably going to have to do a better job than most people do Wow just how it works that's where some of our extraordinarily high achieving people come from this when you get back kind of an intense wet with some talent in some ways those people will not rest easily they don't sit by the TV and just goof off easily they don't just skip their workout easily and they don't just say we're going to order takeout receipt food easily other words those sorts of people the internal audience demands very high attention to detail and excellent execution and that if you don't do it the little guilt chip comes out as the internal audience is a little bit disgusted Wow so you really can't change how conscientious you are but you can certainly change the behaviors that you're doing us so when people fall into what you call the ego trap is that because their internal audience is just really disgusted with them or is it the other way around no actually what's happening here is the following that you're yourself I get the example many times so let's look at this process that yourself which is the person who's actually doing the acting in your life yourself believes that it's capable of certain things and let's suppose that it's that that you you expect that you could be well above average students so your 6th or 7th grade students and you work very hard and it turns out that should get straight A's but it was hard for you to get those straight A's and he had a couple of teachers in hard classes that were really nice and they really liked you and they did a lot of eighties and they gave you an A and now unfortunately for union you've got a mother or a father who tells the world that you've got these straight A's and that you're brilliant and that you're straight-a students when the truth of the matter is throughout the rest of grade school you've been an above average student but you up that straight as students you know you're going to genius and you any magic dust and quite frankly in your class in your science class you were probably the 13th best student out of 30 but you had a very lenient teacher that laid an a on you nonetheless so now you've got a mother who is essentially saying that if you just apply yourself you're very brilliant and you're going to get straight-a student and so now what we have is the external audience starts to be you believe that they are informed your uncles and your cousins and your brother and your sister and your father and everybody else in the Sun is now inking behind this PR that you're really really smart and you can be expected to get straight A's now you go into the next year and those teachers are gone and it's sort of back to the normal landscape and you know that if you work really hard you're probably going to get four is into these so you are aware that you are unlikely to live up to those expectations now it's going to turn out that there's an adaptive move here that's very tragic but it's a it's adaptive so this got selected in human evolution as a behavioral option to be considered and that is behavioral option to be considered is to not try at all and to make it exceedingly clear to those that believe higher than us and highly less that we are not trying so now the move is to get C's and B's or C's and B's and a D and to make it exceedingly clear to one mother and anybody else who's watching that we are clearly not trying and so we have to make it crystal clear so that way we hold on to that fancy-ass team but they believe that we are really brilliant okay so this is the only way to do it we know that if we do our best and wind up with four days and she B's that we are going to lose that cachet so in order to protect that cached we actually sabotage our current efforts this is what I called you go trap the ego or the self-esteem mechanism is trying to optimize how much esteem it gets from the village and in one of the ways it can optimize that I seen is that when we have been getting too much is seeing the right thing to do is sabotaging the sabotage our efforts so this is a I believe this is a very key part of the addictive process people that are competent humans that are addicted are aware that people close to them believe that they can just slip down the wall and so what they do instead is in exceedingly clear to the audience that they are not trying to put down the wall and that they are procrastinating on this until next month next year alpha the big thing after the daughter's wedding whatever it is whether it's procrastination an excuse making is the is in fact the hallmark is somebody in you need to attract now the internal audience is watching this whole thing in the internal audience is really not that privy to what's going on inside himself so these are like segmented areas of the mining in effect and so the internal audience is aware what other people think so it essentially sets the bar as to what it thinks other people think that you could do and so as a result it says if it sets the bar too high which it can just in case of these grades or somebody that is very highly conscientious for example that learns about us could have come to expect that others would believe that they could just set their pork down you really healthy foods right the salad with their hands go back to the Stone Age with your diet lose 40 pounds to be done okay so it's not an unreasonable in Prince and it's not an unreasonable inference and a highly conscientious individual that their internal audience would believe that they should be able to just see this easily however what will happen is the self will make an effort just like our little girl made an effort to get good grades and they'll quickly find out that this is a slippery difficult rap but it's actually quite a bit harder than we thought and you have trouble and so when that happens self-soothe figure now but maybe I can get four is TVs but I can't answer it is essentially I cannot I'm not so sure I can do this program and so I would I could hear that the voices of a thousand people have been through the mcdougal program and a bit through the trio program quote I'm not so I'm afraid of going home well they're afraid of going home because they're afraid that they're not gonna be able to execute this behavior in their lives and so the self is watching this and thinking I'm not so sure I can do it meanwhile the internal audience is saying why not we would expect you to be able to do this that isn't that your intention haven't you just educated don't you see that people are doing it what they have a mcdougal look this chef any that we're going to say saved I mean you should be able to do it what's the problem Thanks so if you have a high expectation particularly high conscientiousness personality that internal audience can set the bar pretty high for you and when you start finding out that you can't meet those expectations then you can deliberately and maliciously self-sabotage okay and so this is what people will do this can be the beginning of just kicking over the table and just saying well I don't care I was under a lot of stress and therefore I just ate much crap okay this is this is the excuse making and procrastination that that is off again the track marks and snow that lead back to them to the ego track so these these two are these two traps the pleasure trap because it is because of its tricky hyper activation of pleasure pathways which will draw any animal in serious into its web that gets in humans and uniquely adherence yet one is up throwing a particularly tricky curveball to human being who actually sets their sights that trying to change behavior and they may wind up with exogenous and an internal also pressure about setting the bar so high that they can't reach it and then they differ for sabotage themselves by being clear that they're not trying those two things see that are unbelievable pair of snakes that way around each other and make this the extraordinarily difficult journey that you and I find this to be all right you know it was interesting because I didn't understand self-sabotage until I talked to you one of your clients wanted to live with me for eight days because they had gained a considerable amount of weight and they wanted to change their environment and we've talked ad nauseam about how we both believe the environment is the number one predictor of one's success on this journey and I said to her I said so if you get a flat tire do you then slash the other three metaphorically she goes yes and then I break the windshield and I smashed the car and I I didn't understood until talking to you I didn't understand that that was an example of the ego trap and I guess the next question is is then how do we get out of it because one of the things I also learned from you is it the ego trap and the pleasure trap they're kind of at odds and and if I understand what you were trying to teach me correctly to help our mutual client is it the easiest way probably to get out of the ego trap and if you're you know binging every day at McDonald's instead of eating whole natural food would be to do let go to true north and fast or do an austere program like the ultimate weight-loss program but then if you're eating an F diet in the ego trap that might be the bar set too high so maybe you could do a little bit better but sometimes doing a little bit better introduces some of those pleasure trap foods like sugar and flour and high fat plant foods that make it kind of hard it almost seems like it's impossible but like yes I mean for some people that's why I prefer to maintain an a-plus diet because this I don't want to be in any trap ego trap pleasure trap and I find it's just easier to to do what dr. cold hammer told me to do than to have to suffer the way I see people suffering so how do we navigate this the pleasure trap in ego trap being in Oz and how do we get out of I think we know how to get out of the pleasure trap what but how do we get out of the ego trap while trying to escape the pleasure trap I guess would be the better question great question and this is where the individual individual difference is coming to play and they wind up being tricky okay so every person that I talk to I'm setting the bar a little bit of different place I need to know what their this tree is I need to ask them you know where they stand now what we're trying to accomplish and then what they've done and where they failed and what their successes would look like and etcetera what they're what they're prepared to do and so we you know I might set the bar at doing things 80 percent right I think that's about as low as we can go and get enough out of the pleasure trap there we can get some traction other words people that have said hey how about if I eat healthy during the week and then all we can tell you what I want that's going to be a problem and I know the problem is is that by indulging the the taste sensors that much over two straight days we're essentially not going to maintain enough sensitivity that we're going to be trying to climb our way out of the pleasure trap come Monday morning and it's going to be part and it's going to be probably too hard and then it's so pretty soon the person is just so habituated to the Richard diet that they're just eating it all the time so I I think it's going to be very unlikely that people are going to be able to have a standard that low and then wind it be successful I could be wrong nobody in the world knows because nobody's ever studied this but we certainly have an analogous sort of a situation saving cigarettes it's not so easy for people to limit their cigarettes to a pack a week it's pretty hard okay so if you're using them that often it's hard to limit it to three cigarettes a day now there's people that have bent it and there's people that can do it but it's difficult usually if you're doing a three day pretty soon you're doing five pretty soon you're doing seven and then pretty soon you're doing a pack so it's pretty hard to tease the system and at some level now you might say well then what about your 80% and this is what I introduced in in the slow pathway target's lecture that I gave it the Dougal program the its online the mcdougal webinar series the reason why is that usually eighty percent is a significant improvement over where they've been and it allows for a period of assembling a little bit without throwing over the whole thing and saying I can't do it and the truth is is that processed foods rich foods is not heroin and it's actually not as impactful as cigarettes of somebody that's saying withdrawal yes is somewhere here on when our morphine etcetera is way over one end unbelievably they did very difficult to stand up to those cravings cigarettes are in the middle okay there they are not so probably not stuff for example as alcohol is too alcoholic but the pretty tough pretty tough it they trap a lot of people but if you notice historically in this country but when it became illegal to smoke a doors that are you use the cigarettes went from about fifty percent of the population at eighteen so a whole lot of people put away their cigarettes just because it was too much trouble to go outside so that tells us that it is not nearly as impactful as heroin so whenever I read these things like Surgeon General says that cigarettes are as addictive as cocaine and if something is like really I I don't know what David you're referring to and on what dimensions of a scale but I know that it's a real-life clinic and staring and I realized people that's ridiculous I bet that there's no comparison they say the same thing about sugar though I've heard speakers at the mcdougal Advanced Study weekend doctor saying that that sugars as addictive as cocaine is hair and hair oils a way that's true okay so these are these are the ratings that people that are looking at one aspect of the setting and they're not looking at fourteen aspects of the study and so the fourteen different aspects that could be measured so I know that people that the kind of a Center for example in your water faster than mcdougal program and start eating healthier a bunch of sugar and fat do not go through the degree of withdrawal cravings that take place when people get off sick lights this is no way it's not even close so what this is is a very mild joy delay effect now here's the problem it's just mild enough to keep you on the track okay just because it's mild doesn't mean it's not a trap independent meaning it's not a tenacious little track because it is just an insult right so the cigarettes also are just up and out for you to get out of that they could keep people in it for a lifetime so it's like boy all it would take is a couple of weeks of diligence and you can shoot your way through the sack straps and then you wouldn't be addicted cigarettes but it's just addictive it up you know this is not an everyone people aren't clutching their stomach so now I have in Colusa nations about budgets falling all over them this is doesn't even remotely resemble the trout that an opiate gets you into but it's ten percent of an opiate which is enough to eat most people right and the same thing is true of riches so rich foods is just enough to keep it right okay so this is so individual differences here are important because some people if you can these are matters of degree but if you can do substantially good job but not a perfect job you can move the taste preference distance to some degree out of the out of the pleasure trap and you can be on your way and you can do this and feel like the bar that's not so possibly high but you just throw your hands up when you may even say hey so that's why I try to set up though you need to set the bar high enough that the system sees that the internal lining is watch if you struggle and you're having to fight for it and that you have to make some choices that you don't want to make and notice that you can do it and it's watching you do it when you do that it's bolstering your self-esteem and I want people to be aware that that's true but in fact the number one thing I'm after when I'm after the pleasure trap is actually the internal audience I'm actually after self-esteem I want people to understand that their self-esteem is what I call dynamic which means it can change traditional safe you see self-esteem is fairly intractable she keeping the takes place as a result of parent-child am isolated life and that it's a very steady sort of thing that only changes like a glacier the the truth of the matter is self-esteem is dynamic and it seems steady because people's behavior and their efforts can be fairly steady and so the feedback from the internal audience tends to be similar for a month to month and a day but if it is you've got a steady stream of negative feedback self-disgust coming from the internal audience to your self-esteem mechanism that is not you that is what you were earning okay and it turns out that what I want people to learn is that they can set the bar a reasonably high level short of perfection and dig for it if they do that on a consistent basis I want them watching for the change in their self of seeing like a hawk like a scientist looking for a particular creature under a microscope either a whole mass of other creatures and an expert watching for that little funny red thing with the little Wiggly thing on the end because that's the thing we're interested in I want people she's looking inside during psychology watching for the self-esteem of innocent eyes and I'd want to have them see that but it didn't have to be perfect to get it but they had to be good okay now there's Alan right are you right if you do everything perfectly you get out of a pleasure trap most easily and you get the fastest way to where it is that you need to get to yes you are accurate I love hearing that I'm right however if we set that bar for everyone a great many people will find pretty quickly that they can't do it right I think they're not ready they're not motivated enough to environment wasn't ready enough they're not terrible they don't have enough belief that it's going to work they've got all kinds of reasons why that they may equivocated and my attitude is we're not looking for perfect I just need you to be a B student okay I need you to be a decent for a while and without the NAC later and can it be sometimes harder to beast you because it's a pleasure traps keeps learning you in a little bit yeah it can be harder in some ways it can also be easier because we don't have this tendency to just say predictable thing then you kick over the table and just crash the whole heart right that's C that is the yin-yang of a problem that is amazing we are confronted with things in the modern world that we can go with these just missing timeless dilemmas of human nature and just conflict you know there's always something conflict or war in the world and we can read Buddhist philosophy and find out that there's always been troubling you know personal dilemmas this is not one of them is supposed to be we are not supposed to be living a land with super rich super normal this is self-destructive and yet it tastes like it's the most white and handsome booty that there is that is not supposed to be a dilemma that human beings are supposed to face so if people are struggling with this which they are by the hundreds of millions if people are struggling with this and even despite their that separates they are they're stumbling quite a bit I am hardly surprised this is no indictment of character it's an indictment of intelligence it's no indictment in addition it's an indictment of how the trickiest problem really is and why do you need you know a thousand more people just like you but we don't have and that why the kind of support that she provide is an invaluable you know ancillary process to what is that we can do with some of these more in-depth emergence well we had discussed earlier that there are people that have maybe more critical internal audiences so maybe there are some people and it would be helpful to figure out if you're one of them maybe like me that's sort of an all-or-nothing black-and-white person that will do better having the bar as high as possible and staying there and other people at least to know what kind of person you are because one of the things you said in regards to the client that came to live here for eight days was that because this was a very highly intelligent highly conscientious person that did great in her job that there was an inference that you're so smart you're conscientious therefore you shouldn't be fat and that's that's not true because just because you're able to sell certain problems in life doesn't mean that you can easily solve this one especially since we weren't dissolved designed to solve it yes you hit a nail right on the head and so the particularly I believe intelligent conscientious people are even though they are more likely to solve this problem than anybody else they are more likely to surprised at their own struggles more than anybody else so people that are kind of low conscience just wait here individuals they might hear about this it might even be mildly interested in one potato and they say forget it you know so that they you know they don't have an expectation that they would take on something this this tricky and this difficult more conscientious people will they believe that this should they have a very high expectation internal audience expecting them to execute on the information that they're learning and then it turns out they'll run headfirst into a pleasure trap that is ways tougher than I think pleasure trap is not a 90 mile an hour fastball coming out of a pitching machine that she's gotta learn how to hit the pleasure traps at her ball becomes you know from different directions with spin on it that we can't see yeah it's your sister's birthday and she says Oh fun which like like I buy this you're a hungry you have a need before you can because you didn't your get really to pair up with us and very more right there greasy cheese blintz nobody you know other than your sister II didn't notice that you're a fanatic and maybe she doesn't even know to be expected and so nobody's there nobody's watching other than your internal audience and the self gets weak and it can't stand up to the pressure and caves and now it's a normal day now I might be in a lot of trouble so this is it actually if it's if it's not too deep in the ego throughout it's only in my old trouble that you're only in mild trouble you can dig your way out with a day or two of healthy living or not you did not need yourself a deep trout but if you're in an ego trap and you saw this is a catastrophic failure then this is going to be to start completely all the wheels coming off your and your car and we see that you know we see that with people where they've done really well for a long period of time and they relapse slip fall off the wagon whatever you want to call it and then that's it and it to me that's like so devastating because they I feel so bad for them because they've worked so hard and you've said before that that it really can take as little as three days to get out of this so just doing better which is why I don't understand why people when they fail at my program go to a more restrictive program like a weighing and measuring because when I'm understanding for you is when you're in the ego trap you just need to show your internal audience that you could do a little bit better if you're eating enough you need to eat a D and a see if it's to if something is too hard you want to make it easier not harder I would imagine I think they probably what's happening this is that people are bailing to a whole new social situation with the expectations or starting from scratch and they're sort of starting over a new school I see you know it's like if you peed your pants in the second grade everybody knew about it you you you can't you his music T of years to find out that your parents are moving across town you're gonna be in a whole different school next year and I think there's a little aspect of that is probably what you're inevitably gonna find that maybe if they if they haven't succeeded or failed whatever words they want to use they feel ashamed and you you know it's amazing you're not an evolutionary psychologist you're a revolutionary psychologist and people don't even know that like they have access to you you put aside a few appointments each week for regular people like us if they want to talk to you just go to esteemed dynamics that are unbelievable so I know that you don't if nothing you don't believe it but maybe you don't believe it the same way that others you in emotional eating and food addiction if I'm understanding you correctly what many people think of as food addiction you think of more as like a more mild drug like effect that people have to certain processed foods that it's not addictive the way the cocaine heroin is but it's addictive enough to make it that it's not easy to stop that there is a little bit of something going on in our brains that make us kind of yeah uncomfortable if we stop and not yeah yes yeah emotional eating is in theory kind of comes from two very different places one of them has legitimacy and the other one does not so the one that's legitimate is I really stressed out at work didn't have time you know I'm just I'm just completely emotionally exhausted and therefore I did the lazy easy thing okay so that that's going to happen to people this what we're trying to get people to do is takes diligence it takes energy into an assistant to stop what the default strategy of the system is the default strategy in the system is drive-through McDonald's the default strategy assistant is you eat the richest food in the environment that has the least possible effort involved in getting it that's the default strategy of the nervous system of every animal and so we have that as the default strategy so to come back the default strategy requires energy it's the equivalent of an air conditioner for your house it takes no energy at all to open up the windows and then you get the same you know then the outside you know comes in but if you want the inside of the house to be cooler than the sweltering outside of the house if you want there to be a substantially differential 170 degrees inside when it's 102 outside then it's going to require energy you're gonna have to put energy into the system in order to cool the air that is required the same thing is true here but if you want the inside of your body to have healthy food in it and all around your body is very very healthy food it's going to require energy to keep that great apart okay and sometimes people in life they have situations to come up often and out where that energy is compromised and then their diets compromise and the problem is is that that can then send them on the tumble because it's going to put them into the ego trap there's now that it failed their internal audience or you can also put them in the pleasure trap because now we teach the circuits so that is emotional eating and so that that is real and that it's not a huge factor by the way people will think this huge factor but the research evidence indicates it's a mild factor and this problem now the other side of emotional eating that I will rule my eyeballs out and I will I think I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna say my big explanation for this for what say we do it and then you can show everybody and that is that the notion that we do these self-destructive things in the present because of emotional things from the past this is a very pretty and neo Freudian interpretation of human motivation and personality so this is this is essentially in my view close to ninety eight plus percent bonus you talk about that in great detail in the in in the podcast because Indians lecture that you gave called losing weight without losing your mind that has I think like a half a million hits on YouTube that we recorded together five years ago one of the things you say is people are not overweight because they have emotional problems they're mostly have all emotional problems because they're overweight and I don't ever want to disagree with the most intelligent person I've ever met but I'm reading a book on food addiction and it says among adult women who are addicts 74% reports sexual abuse 52% reward physical abuse 72% report emotional abuse among women who binge eat 83% were abused as children and it is linked to an actual study in the medical literature which I'd be happy to provide for you yet in your podcast you in again this is not if you have had sexual emotional or physical abuse again I want people that I'm not doing this to make you feel bad or wrong because I've had two out of the three of those but so many people say well the reason I'm fat is because XYZ happened and I think it's important because again this is really we want to empower people not shame them or make them feel bad then that if they've had these things they're horrible and they need to deal with them however people deal with trauma and abuse but that's not why they're overweight today right yeah this is a he sort of survey said he's post-op survey studies are pretty close to scientifically worthless and any any psychologist scientifically oriented psychologists would recognize that that's true you can't ask people what they think the connections are between their present circumstances in their past they they will report to you what they think is true if you this is the that there are similar problems throughout dynamic psychology this is why for example Rorschach tests is it demonstrated fraud and yet and yet thousands of my colleagues believe in it and swear up and down to its validity and that there's of course great science that is completely checkmated many of these things this a lot of this notion that early childhood issues could particularly traumatic issues of some kind could bend a person to behave some way eventually in future this really goes back to koi it goes back to a man writing more than a hundred years ago very brilliant guy and really a deep thinker trying to figure out the human mind and he had many many of the petitions and his understanding of psychology and biology and particularly I mean I couldn't say in particular there was so many six but those mistakes interestingly enough were meaning clothes this day yeah good and so one of those is well to get an example it's going to believe that people went through what's called psychosexual stages where the libido sexualized energy would would go through stages where there was processes where they had to get through and if you didn't sort of get through that process very well then now we have a being or bias in your personality so for example if you didn't get through the toilet-training city very well maybe you were overly controlled and upset because your parents were ashamed of the smellier poop and so you felt ashamed about it so therefore you became and it means over the tented personality and you have hurt you with that part time pooping you got a lot of anxiety in your stomach and you were also going needed orderly because you wouldn't want to see a place or dirty in other words so he's trying to figure out why are there individual differences of people and he's thinking maybe something very important in early childhood development in the process between parents and child would be causing these differences that we see in a 35 year old so another one would be the oral stage of development so you're sucking on your mom's breasts and put things in your mouth and maybe you've got a problem and the weaning period so you know maybe that makes you somebody did it never fully got satisfied orally so that's why you're smoking cigarettes or smoke the cigars or drinking alcohol or eat too much food okay so you've got a fixation at the oral stage of development you need to get past that maybe you got a fixation at the clinical stage and so we've got psychosexual issues maybe become homosexual or because something did you know didn't work out just right in your development mean this is the way this guy's thinking and so for a hundred years afterwards people are respecting the awe and authority of psychodynamic but they're not respecting an act in academia not in scientific psychology but out in clinical psychology where people are talking to realize people as opposed to running the experiments in gathering Dale out there in the world in the world of Time magazine or anything else that's who's talking this is the clinicians of beauty and as a result of that most clinicians are thinking some version of that and that's a very common like whatever book you're you're reading from that's they have been infected by that machine it turns out that that notice and personality development is a hundred percent wrong and this was proven wrong in the 1980s by the experiments of monozygotic twins at the University of Minnesota where we found out that identical twins that were raised together were extremely similar to each other and if they already support my adopted parents they were extremely similar to each other in fact they were just as similar to each other they are essentially almost exactly the same and if you had fraternal twins terrible ways that happened to be fraternal twins or they only have 50 percent of it's saying instead of a hundred and they're raised in the same family by the same parents they aren't even remotely as similar to people who are monozygotic twins was partly different people I think so we started to find out that the genes genetic variation just as it makes an enormous difference in what you look like so you can't tell me that Cindy Crawford became Cindy Crawford because she had really sweet parents that made her look sweet tell me that a Shaquille O'Neal became Shaquille O'Neal because yet parents said hung them upside down and encouraged to grow to be seven foot two okay this is not what happens folks the reason why it is your body looks the way it looks in its general contours this is a genetic variation in faces this is also why it's very clear that breeders of animals breed animals for psychological and behavioral characteristics because those behaviors those characteristics are also genetic so a golden retriever is different than a Maltese and that is not because it's probably the trend is because of the individual differences of genetics and that species those brains are substantially different you do not train a person behind someone there's no possible way to do it so all the baby on mobiles in the world are not going to make that kid the genius just cannot happen genius is in there so the individual differences in personality are overwhelmingly genetic and this is a preeminent fact of modern scientific psychology and yet and yet if you talk to typical psychologists or the person who wrote that book they are still mired in essentially a 19th century or early 20th century view of a man who's been dead for decades okay but his thinking still cast a pall over the clinical field because the scientific view in psychology is not well publicized and it's not out there a popular press particularly and so the so this is why we get people believing that something happened early in life it's causing them to be in closure trapping you go trap later in life but now I'm telling you it's not true and and of course we have staggering evidence to this effect so whatever evidence they're reporting it's in ignorance of the evidence that contradicts it and so this is I'm not going to say that hitting sort of comment about his people in history don't have any impact on their lives at all I'm not going to say that but why is specifically translated into eating behavior this bizarre okay if I have a guy who's having trouble shooting his free-throws on my basketball team and he's struggling with us what I do is I check his fundamentals I put him on a videotape to see what he's doing and we go in and we check what he's doing wrong that's giving rise the stakes that were saying what I don't do is I don't analyze his childhood dynamics for this mother okay that is not going to help me improve his free pressure this behavior is not related to your childhood issues they there are other issues in your life it could be but not this this is an independent automated gene driven decision making system just like breathing and in fact that people are doing self-destructive way is because of the artificial foods in the environment bit over here oh okay that is what it is and we have an addictive property as well as the expectations on some people's part that this should be able to beat this easily now the problem is pleasure drug is very difficult in seven right and the ego trap makes it especially problematic and subject to repetitive coloring this is the reason it is very emotional people feel very defeated very demoralized their internal audience is sending a very negative self-esteem signals this is frustrated with their lack of effort and their self-sabotage these things are not emanating from deep psychological policy from that it is that's not where they're coming from they are emotional they are difficult they are problematic and they are tenacious but the solution will not be found in some kind of resolution some childhood the fixation on some bad memory no you are looking in the wrong place we need to look yeah I I used to believe that until I had a session with you and I was telling you about my dad my dad was kicked in the head by a horse before I was born and he actually had a gash he actually had brain damage so he became psychotic and violence so he used to torture my dog in front of me and beat the crap out of my brothers and my mom which was not pleasant for a four and five-year-old and I used to tell you that it was very upsetting and I used to go eat these cookies and you said to me well is that the only time you ate the cookies and I never thought about it it's like no I ate the cookies all the time because I realized now that with the environment being the number one predictor of our success I lived in a pleasure trap environment with cabinets of cookies and chips and all kinds of sweetened cereal and you really broke me of believing this when you said that there were plenty of happy people in line at Cinnabon and plenty of press people eating fruit and and so unfortunately my book was already written and I do still think some of this thinking is in there and is what it is so you know yeah it's gonna be difficult I think to convince people I think they hold on to this and maybe it's what you talk about like it kind of excuse me and and again I have to be so careful cuz I'm trying to help people I'm not saying that that they're using it as an excuse but what you said earlier is that sometimes they'll do these things like well my dog died so I had to eat crap and as an excuse because they can't get out of the either crap or both yes I think you're absolutely right I think that there is a I think there's definitely an unconscious ego protective process that is looking for a reason because the individual is mystified as to why it is that they can't manage to summon this self-discipline it appears to be easy the the cost of having a problem is so high they recognize that cost is is huge in their environment for their self-esteem their interaction with with other people how other people find them they would dearly love to be have this problem behind them the fact that they sabotage themselves through the pleasure trap and also through it through a careening self-destructive process called the ego trial where they kick over the table bit give those back these failures are mysterious and they are very emotional and as a result the price is high for this mess and the individual somewhere deep in them sort of knows it's not their fault okay they're a fine human they are they do so many things so well their ethical they're smart they're hard-working or their children they can be fabulous people and they often are they often are very kind loving funny great people but they got this one monkey on their back and they can't get it off and the thing is of course if they go anywhere else but to me for help they're very likely to have people say well this isn't really your fault you did damage by somebody else zero poll yeah so can I blame somebody else something in the past so we're going to talk about that rather than watching your breath growing basically saying it's hard to be an 80% foul shooter it's really hard you're going to have to get in a gym you're gonna have to get good night's sleep beforehand you're gonna go to the yoga person and get stretched out then we're gonna look like some film again we're going to do a bunch of repetitive motions to try to get it straight you know you hear you're a seven foot two magnificent athlete we want you to be our starting center but you can only shoot 40% from the free-throw line and you're killing us okay so we're going to pay you 15 million dollars a year if you can get this free throwing done and what do they deal with these people they don't analyze their childhood for what is that they're doing that for job they get the very finest coaching to pay attention to the factors that we know are involved ah rats folks and bees and any animal where it's ever been tested oh right into the pleasure drops yeah every animal that's ever been tested will fall right into this mess and they will be incredibly frustrated when you come out of it it turns out that if you will give rats unlimited access to human channel Pizza chocolate etc coca-cola if you do that and you let them eat guy for say 30s what's going to happen and we need to put normal [ __ ] right now in front of them is fascinating the average rat will go on strike and not eat anything for 14 days they will give the experimenter Saavedra okay the middle on their hand no I'm not eating this I can't stand it I would rather starve yes is the experimental evidence from experimental psychology as conducted I think the University of Pennsylvania your alma mater so we know it's really good right out of the Ivy League okay the point is is that we can see these processes taking place and we can understand that at the level of neuroscience we do not have to reach back into history of unrelated behavior that's not related and come up with some convoluted answer of why you're damaged goods and you can't face this problem and it's not your fault this is a horrendous strap to put on people it feels kind it feels like a nice excuse it feels like we get to go play over here on the stand and not pay attention to the problem over here because it's not your fault but nothing is your fault and unfortunately if you're going to be a better free throw we're going to have to look at the film and we're going to have to do the fundamentals and we're going to have to train and we're gonna have to do the very damn best we can and we're not gonna send you a shrink to talk about your psychobabble problems that we know it's not a help because that's not the cause so that's that's the issue here and so yeah that's why you know I have no interest in arguing with all people to think that the side of dealing say like for the rest of my life the most in the psychological world is going to believe but this all has to do with the early childhood this or that for the rest of my life I'm gonna wall my eyeballs and just say sorry you're looking in the wrong place and in Las Vegas I will I will present this what I present here plus very important additional evidence I know you guys have to come cuz I know what it is and I didn't want to interview him for this now you remind me of dr. Semmelweis the guy that was ostracized by his colleagues because he told physicians they have to wash their hands and that's why so many mothers were dying in childbirth I think you're just a little bit ahead of your time and to corroborate what you said is regardless of the amount of trauma abuse a person has had in the past or the amount of stress if they're having now for some reason when they go to this magical vortex known as Santa Rosa and attend either the MacDougal program or go to the True North health center they seem to be able to lose weight it's like magical yeah we see that magically the free-throw shooting becomes cetera so the rest hasn't changed and their current situations hasn't changed but what has changed is their environment which why we are so sticklers dr. Lyle do have time for one more question and if you can't answer it completely we can talk about it in Vegas or one more interview because we've got to almost everything on the list so I had a gentleman come to my class who was sent by his physician because he was in stage 4 kidney failure so he was this close to dialysis meaning he was already diabetic and on insulin and many medications and he was morbidly obese probably 150 pounds overweight and he didn't come to ultimate weight less he came to just this this cooking class I do that is the way that I eat SOS free diet hope you know very low in fat just delicious recipes though and so as I'm doing the class for example I'm cooking my food in a pressure cooker and he says oh that's not good you're going to you know lose nutrients even though I have actual research that says it's one of the most best ways to retain nutrients I put all the food in whole like the onion he goes oh you have to cut that onion because you won't benefit from all the properties if the onion is put in all I'm making a low-fat salad dressing he goes oh if you don't put nuts in seeds and you won't absorb the macro nutrient or the micronutrients in in the greens that were eating I'm trying to he's like um I was using an airfryer to show how to make delicious french fries without oil or salty goes oh well you're gonna get acrylamide and then and that's not good and I mean everything I had I'm trying to think there were more things he said oh well we shouldn't be eating rice there's arsenic and so everything I had he obviously he was highly intelligent and because I was in a class situation he had come to me in as a private client I would said to him at Google look you're on death's door you're about to go on dialysis you're 150 pounds overweight and you're really worried about how I'm cutting the onion or that we're not having nuts so my question is just broader because why do people tend to major in minor things because you say in the pleasure trap that it's really not these deficiencies that are causing the problems but but it drives me crazy well with social media and dr. XS and people are focusing you know dr. McDougall I believe calls it a distraction like even GMOs people and I can understand if you're Alan Goldhammer who is eaten perfectly for 40 years to really care about this minutia but it drives me crazy because I can't do my work make the food taste delicious when people are there literally you know seeing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin so maybe this is an evolutionary thing that people just like to focus on these things instead of the big picture you know I think you're I think what you're looking at is your your we're looking at a human fascination with efficiency so we I think that the ever since the discovery of vitamins you know last hundred years people have been extremely and because also culturally I believe so when they discovered the connection between vitamin C and scurvy for example this is a very very big watershed discovery for human beings and so suddenly now the concept of a vitamin which means it's an essential nutrient but now you know the race was on for discovering vitamins I don't know how many of them there are they're not very many of them the best but human beings picked up on it and they're their little eyebrows went up in the city whoa we have to make sure we're not efficient similarly there are actually similarly somewhat worried about infectious disease they're worried about Germans too so germs are worried about deficiencies they're worried about they're not worried about macro nutrient excess that they're not worried that our ancestors never had a problem with macro nutrient excess our ancestors did have a problem with infectious diseases so when they learned of the cause of infectious diseases here in the last hundred fifty years that caught the world's attention and the race was on to try to figure out what on earth is going on and why are twenty million people dying of the flu and what is this thing and etc so people are are interested essentially in microbiology for both the concepts of deficiency and and infectious disease after that they really don't care that much about macro nutrients and so your is a regard there is is a fascinating you know he's a caricature of human nature which is you know essentially the the overweight man or woman fifty pounds overweight worried about whether or not they're getting enough you know b12 because they're not eaten salmon and they're worried about that so yeah you should be worried about that you should be worried about that about it as much as you are worried about it now I think that you know your your guide is actually an extraordinary example of that of that myopia and that we have to live with it you know we that's why a chapter of a bunch of crap is called looking for help at all the wrong places I was it was that actually came out of a conversation with my father who was essentially dying a congestive heart failure telling me that he was going to eat salmon because it had a lot of good omega-3 so I actually might have to firm that morning so frustrated I was in Oakland I could remember where I was and I was in Oakland and my dad was in San Diego yeah we had this conversation he was in deep trouble and I tried to convince him I hung up the phone and I said this is crazy I cannot believe that he's focused on that deficiency when his problem this excess and I sat down and wrote what would become that chapter it started out as an article for Health Science magazine and I called looking for help in all the wrong places if it became choppered in the pleasure trap and it's a key an insight into the problems that we face in this arena of when people start to get interested their interest starts with deficiencies and only only once sick and it part that and set that aside did they graduate to more balanced and more holistic view of what it is we're talking about alright well I learned that from you again everything I know you know I feel like training everything I know I learned from dr. Lao because when I saw you as a patient for the first time in almost seven years ago you know I was eating my nuts every day one ounce weighed and measured because we have to have our omega-3s and I was fifty pounds overweight and the minute I stopped eating them I wasn't and you know so what can you say learning process yeah absolutely what gosh it has just been amazing talking to you I could talk to you forever and you guys can talk to dr. Lisle too there's many ways you can come to the ultimate weight-loss live conference Labor Day weekend in September and asking questions you can call in his podcast is like a radio show Wednesday night 8:30 p.m. Pacific time to 9:30 p.m. Pacific time it's on iTunes and BlogTalkRadio it's called beating your genes GE and es it's fabulous there are 73 archived episodes that will just blow you away you can and should read this book we read it once a year and it's just it really is amazing book and I can't recommend it highly enough you can go to his website esteem dynamics or there's so many free audios and videos you can watch you can even book a private session with them how cool is that that when your favorite author is actually available to talk to you so whether you need to get out of the ego trap or the pleasure trap or stay out or both talked to dr. Lyle because he's awesome so thank you so much dr. Lyle you are just such little it's I just feel like when I talk to you I get smarter it's the weirdest thing when it's just you just it's amazing and thanks all of you for watching another episode of healthy living I'm chef AJ and I make healthy tastes delicious
Back to the top
🏃     👖




Artist