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Chef AJ: Covid-19, Bulimia, Stretch Receptors, and Starch | Interview with Dr Doug Lisle
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what can I do they always play music o'clock on my street alright just waiting for it to go alive let's see hi everybody and welcome to today's live with one of our very favorite people in the plant-based community actually in the whole world dr. Doug Lyall if you're unfamiliar with him then please just go to Amazon or audible right now and get the pleasure trap the extraordinary book he co-wrote with dr. Alan Goldhamer he has an amazing podcast every Wednesday night with dr. Jenn Hawk who we interviewed a few days ago it's called beat your genes and you can listen to it live on BlogTalkRadio or you can listen to a pre-recorded on itunes or on Spotify stitcher so many ways there's several hundred episodes now and two of them he talks about kovin which we're going to talk about a little bit today but we don't want the whole hour to be about it because there's already so many wonderful interviews that he's done about that people like dr. mcdougal has done it too did I give myself a haircut no I broke quarantine and I allowed my hairdresser to come over so I don't think I can get arrested for that but I'll tell you this is not the best time to be growing out your hair sharing this during this selfish sheltering at home so as you know we always give preferential treatment to people that write in to us from our mailing list so we're going to go to those questions first and if dr. Lyle has time will answer your questions here as well thank you so much dr. Lyle I love always a pleasure AJ yeah you're my fav I just I just I always feel like at the end of Wizard of Oz you know where Dorothy says because you know the Scarecrow the Cowardly Lion and the Tin Man I think of you gold hammer and MacDougal I sometimes I want to say this like she said the Scarecrow I love you most of all so cuz he liked to scare me frankly you know that's why I love them too so the first question will be about COBIT and then we will go on to some other fun topics like bulimia and weighing yourself so this person didn't know how to ask questions live so that's great that she sent it in I have only one question that is weighing heavy on my chest the scarier part of the Kovic nineteen pandemic is if you get the virus you don't know if you will have a mild case or if you will die that is a large range I am following all the rules but I need to go to the market every two weeks with my gloves masks and sunglasses quite a sight is she asking if she should go with the gloves and mask I think her question is that I guess it's me I don't really actually see a question mark in this but she's saying I I think she's fearful because you don't know if you have it if you'll be a very mild case or if it'll end up you'll end up dying so I like yeah mmm right I think the the the answer that is in in the existing evidence and the existing evidence overwhelmingly indicates that that if you are if you are pretty healthy then your then your odds are going to be low of having you know obviously a fatality that the vast majority of the fatalities are taking place in people that are have health compromises and and very significantly and troublingly it's not just that it's age so ages is the biggest factor so if you're a healthy 75 year old you may be more vulnerable than if you are a not so healthy 55 year old so the so if you are an elderly person if you are 170 for example I would I would say we don't know enough about the virus and why it is that those numbers look that way it could just be and probably is just sort of general health and general resistance capacity and that the average 75 year old just doesn't have the resistance capacity that a 55 year old house but the difference statistically at this moment from what we can see the difference between a 75 year old and a 55 year old much less a 35 year old if you're 35 it would be an extraordinary situation for you two to be in trouble this virus you might get sick you might have a nasty flu kind of thing but but the odds of you dying are are extremely small the you wouldn't worry about this any more than you would the flu and you wouldn't be thinking you're gonna die of the flu you might feel like it that you know you're not going to same thing would be true here the but that's not true if you're 75 so the older folks were not sure why we're considerably more vulnerable probably most of that vulnerability has to do with they they just don't have as much cardio pulmonary function they're just not as tough and so when they I know a lot of a lot of other people when they when they die they die from essentially obstructed Airways you know they catch a cold they catch a respiratory virus and they can't clear their throat they essentially suffocate and that's not an in common you know situation to happen so so if you are if you're 75 you probably can't cough the way you could get when you were 55 you just don't quite have the steam and if you get a bad case of this you know it's much riskier so the first thing I would ask you anybody asks themselves how old they are and if you're over 70 then you need to be extra careful and if you're if you're not if you're under 60 then you still want to be careful and smart that you you're not you're not likely to be facing anything that's bad at imitating that's what I would say also General Health looks to be a big issue if you're a healthy 75 year old you are almost certainly going to be fine if you are if you're a sick if you've got diabetes and you've got you know COPD if you got some you've got some significant issues and you wheeze going up three stairs then you need to be extra careful here in this next period of time Jan wants to know if obesity itself is a comorbid condition if don't have diabetes heart or lung conditions no I wouldn't think so usually obesity is is a mild correlate with most things and when when we do what's called partial correlation or we pull away things like do you have heart disease do you have diabetes and we pull that away from obesity we find that obesity itself isn't isn't particularly impactful on human health so so got that I would say know if you can walk around the block and you're in pretty good cardiovascular shape and and you're overweight I wouldn't be thinking that you're any particular extra risk so I highly wants to know is the virus able to live on frozen foods and their bags for over two years should we be disinfecting every frozen food bag before we put it in the freezer and cooking any frozen food before we eat it to kill the virus oh I I wouldn't I wouldn't know I'm not sure that's known okay the the virus has a as a half-life that's been established so on in laboratory conditions so I don't know what it is eight hours on a spin so you know so eight hours after eight hours half of its gone after another eight hours and other half of its gone after another eight hours another half of its gone so there's going to be a half-life situation I don't think it's likely to be the case that very cold weather is going to extend that situation particularly a lot so I doubt I would doubt very seriously in other words the virus has been living in and around cold things it can handle the cold without a big problem but that doesn't mean the cold is very likely to preserve it in any spectacular way so probably if you touch your vegetables and you put them in that and you've got the virus on your hands or somebody does and they throw it in a freezer it's very likely that the half-life is just like it always is or maybe a little bit slower so maybe they half-life is 12 hours instead of 8 which means that in two or three or four days it's down to such low levels that it has to be unimportant so yeah I wouldn't worry about your frozen vegetables okay wants to know if you personally are going to the store and how you are protecting yourself yeah I go to the store but but I'm I'm trying to not touch the cart we're rainy other hands to touch the cart and so I I go in there and like a previous life when I might wander through the store just looking at interesting things and it's always good to see dr. McDougall stuff on the shelf yeah Bob's Red Mill I go visit my friends at the store the but nowadays I'm you know gonna go in there I'm gonna go get what I'm gonna get that I'm going to get out so I go more targeted these days just so you know I I mean all these people are putting hearts how much they love you dr. Darrell Woodrow watchin saying that Doug is the best I mean you when you when you come on the numbers just go up just so you know how this might you don't know how popular you are now I think you're gonna like this I don't want to spend too much more time on coders we do have other topics but you will like this question because I know you are statistics ition you love numbers but Jeana says does the percentage of failed cases also depend on how many people can be treated at the hospital how does this affect stats from Germany 0.3% in the rest of the world okay so somebody's now asking there's really only a couple of questions that mean anything with respect to this virus and those questions are being answered now and the the the answers are not known so this is why very smart people have different intuition about this and sometimes they you know they those intuitions are strong enough for them that they have opinions that are strong the I have my own opinion it's not a strong opinion in other words my opinion will blow a different direction if the evidence comes in and so right now I'm quite optimistic about the outcomes of this but I'm nervous just like everybody else I have friends of mine that I respect that are way more concerned than I am and so in other words they think we're looking at a much bigger problem than the one that I think I think we're looking at if I had to guess AJ I think we're looking at a very bad flu-like situation maybe two or three times worse than the flu and that that it's going to hit our elderly population hard and it's going to be bad but it's not going to be a catastrophe okay so that's my thinking so let me give you let me give you the reasons free flea why it is there are widely held different opinions and and sort of the different angles of the it's kind of like a you know f scott Fitzgerald when he wrote you the Great Gatsby look at him from the eyes of different people and so you're so you you you're not sure you know who's got the truth on this because you've got several different perspectives the the World Health Organization data right now I looked at it I'm always looking at it you know this is my scale folks I'm a scale monkey I'm a coronavirus scale monkey so I gotta keep looking at the numbers the as EV this morning March 28th we have we have about six six hundred thousand confirmed cases worldwide and about twenty seven thousand people have died that if you do the numbers on that that's roughly four percent now that is terrifying because if you were to map this four percent on the US population we have three hundred million people that be obese 12 million people that would be World War three like numbers so the question is should we be worried about those numbers and my answer would be now we shouldn't worry about those numbers and the reason why we shouldn't worry about those numbers is the following that the four percent of death or the 27,000 people dead are a quite accurate count of how many people have died the corona virus in other words all over the world physicians are looking at this and they're testing these people and they have a no death that they go through that they know and they can confirm that it's coronavirus death and it's more or less 27,000 people in the last three months the question is are there 600,000 confirmed cases is that a good estimate and the answer is no it's a horrible estimate it's the only people that we've tested so we have 10 we've only tested a tiny fraction of the world's population so this would be akin to saying for example people you know there's people die in Toyotas so 27,000 people have died in Toyotas you know yeah and so now let's go check how many and the Toyotas there are in in South East Los Angeles and we have some number that we count and we say oh my god 27,000 people died out of the 600,000 Toyotas you had 27,000 people nationwide died out of out of out of the 600,000 Toyotas that we counted in Los Angeles because we counted 6 other files it's like yeah you didn't count the whole country you've got to find out how many Toyotas there are in the whole country how many people got this virus well if we only test in 1% of the world which would have an off button we know that there are a hundred times more pieces there aren't 600,000 cases in the world folks there are 60 million cases in the world Betty so let's look at what this translates to in the United States where more people attempted to be tested not very many we have that's my mother that's the one that's the one you can ring through on your podcast AJ is my mother we'd love to talk to her the the and the United States 1,700 people have died as of this morning me and there's been a hundred thousand cases so that that looks like 1.7 percent basically that also would be a terrifying number if that were true so one seven would mean that in 300 million people we'd have five million deaths we would be facing now that's better than the four percent that the World Health Organization posting looks like but 1.6 or 1.7 is still a catastrophe this is the number that is very intimidating and scary this is what mobilized though the government and this is what has caused all the discussion something that would be around 1% and running at 1.6 right now smart people looking at that or saying wow that's scary but once again I want to ask you how many people have we actually checked for the virus and the answer is maybe a million so that means we've only checked one in 300 people because we got 300 million people so statistically we have to multiply the number of cases by a factor of 300 so that means we wouldn't expect that there's not a hundred thousand cases there's 30 million now I don't think they're wrong cause I think that the original people tested are very concentrated and if positive the the evidence from all over the world places like Germany Iceland etc looks like this virus is running at 2 or 3 percent of the population in in Seattle if you're testing at about 7 or 8 percent but they're testing mostly sick people so if we look at the United States my guess is that we have at least 1% of people in the United States are infected if that were not true we wouldn't be seeing it all over the New York City we wouldn't be seeing it all over another state in other words we probably got 1% of the population infected at this point AJ that's 3 million people we only have a hundred thousand confirmed cases but we've only tested a tiny mountain people so how on earth did we confirm everybody in Iowa and in Dallas and in Los Angeles and in Fresno and in Tennessee and in the backwoods of the Ozarks how could we possibly confirm those cases when they haven't been any we're near a doctor of course we have a hundred times more cases than we have confirmed so in the United States we undoubtedly have at least five million cases now maybe it's only three notes we may only have one percent of the United States may be infected right now it's probably two percent but it may only be one person if it's one percent that means we have three million kisses that means 700 people have died out of three million kisses that's about one in 2,000 now understand what a difference that is the posted reign is 1.6 percent that's a catastrophe one point six percent one point six people out of every hundred that that would be five million Americans die but right now that's not what the evidence likely indicates the evidence likely indicates that this is less than one in a thousand that's a huge difference today 1000 is what the flu gets to us every year that's how many people die every year the flu right now the evidence would indicate that this is less lethal than the flu now do I believe that no because the those people but 10 million 5 million people that I think were infected haven't gone through the virus yet so we're gonna see the numbers go up which is what you see every day so we had two or three hundred more people die yesterday and it looks scary because it's grown well that's because I think you got 5 or 10 million people in the United States with this virus ok so now we did the great question that the smart people are arguing is is this gonna kill more like one four percent or is it going to kill more like attempted beside that that's a legitimate and terrifying question and so that's why I have good friends of mine let's say Doug I think it's more likely to be closer to one percent daddy and they are worried as they should be I think it's more likely to be 1/10 of a percent I'm worried because they could be right today I could easily be wrong it could be that the we find out that in the next month these numbers go astronomical that we have we we've got five million cases and it turns out it's one percent and we wind up with something like 50,000 deaths in the United States in the next 30 days that could be true if that is true which nobody knows age I know everybody needs to have an opinion and they have needs very strong it intuition but it is not known okay the right now we don't have that evidence because we've got 1,700 people out of a likely five million infections so right this second this thing looks like the flu which is no small thing to have a new clue get loose particularly because in the flu you've got so many people sort of immune and so every year we have 50 million cases but this could go all the way to 300 million kisses so this could this could literally go through the entire population so even a tenth of a percent would be a big deal yeah now what do I think I think it's worse than the flu okay I think it's likely to be worse than one in a thousand it might be 200,000 do I think it's 1 in 100 absolutely not so I don't think we're looking I think we're looking at a very bad year but I don't think we're looking at the extraordinary catastrophe that some very smart people are worried about very smart people were worried enough that they screamed loud enough from the scientific community that it MCDOT the government's ear and the government acted in the only responsible way which is stamp as hard as you can early on an epidemic so that you give us a chance to catch up that that makes sense did we do enough who knows you always could have done more I guess in China that I've heard that they were welding people into their apartments companies we can't do that in the United States okay so we can ask people and we can say listen let's let's really be together on this and be smart because we don't know what we're dealing with AJ right now we what this is all about is this is a a edgy discussion among and the brightest minds that we have trying to figure it out now here's the thing it's not a mystery that will last forever in the next 30 days we will know because we will have enough evidence from enough numbers that you'll actually know is this more like one in a thousand or is it more like 1 in 100 okay this I told you in a text earlier today I said people disagree with me that I respect they could be right I think I'm right and I hope I'm wrong okay I really hope I'm right I I think I think that essentially it's not about who's smarter it's about what that what the actual facts are on what the numbers are my intuition look I look at the amount of deaths that we're seeing worldwide 395 in Germany Germany's got I don't know 80 million people they've got 2% or 3% infected that's two couple of million people are infected in Germany and they have 400 deaths that doesn't look too scary that that looks like okay this looks like the flu Danny we don't know is am I only seeing the very tip of the iceberg I'll know in 30 days okay so this is where we are and this is where we stand and I side with every worried worried person that says be careful wash your hands don't visit your grandmother a course we have to err on the side of great caution what do I what is my intuition tell me about the numbers it tells me that it's a bad flu season that's what it tells me and it tells me this is going to hit our elderly hard so it's a particularly bad flu season but I don't see a catastrophe okay so that's what I think and and like I said I hope I'm right would you mind if I made a couple nice comments about you before they go because what happens is they disappear after a while so let's see a lot of people are saying they hope you're right - Gina says dr. Lyle has groupies lol and I'm one of Maria says dr. Lisle is my favorite person ever there's a lot of about how a lot of these comments are about how handsome you are and they're just so so I just you need to know that that people really appreciate your calm presence during this time so I don't want to really talk covert anymore etc or how it's affecting our people meaning my people in your people they're basically the same people and we lovingly call them H CNCs which are really hyper conscientious nutcases and so like most humans we all look at everything how it affects us and so what the comments I'm getting are for example from Laurel I've been working from home and keep eating and eating and eating starches how do I stop Cheri says I'm worried about staying away from the junk food and there was one more comment here how somebody is reacting to this intentionally going off plans so how do we help our people regardless of how this turns out to stop eatin well AJ you and I always circle back to the fundamentals if we're eating a bunch of junk food where did we get it our day so we recognize if it's in the house you know it's in your mouth and so for goodness sakes take the junk food right now in in a fit of self-discipline I throw it in your garbage can and take your garbage can outside into your big garbage can and dump it don't leave it in the back dump it down into the garbage can that way you won't be fishing down there for it okay so literally in two minutes if you need to clean out your house just grit your teeth and clean it out okay then you don't have to think about it so I this is what I had a friend that lived in a high-rise that have one of those laundry sheets and I brought over boxes sees candy that somebody had given me a Christmas time this is about 15 years ago and I looked at that box and I knew that I was going to want to eat a whole lot of it and instead I took out about three pieces and then I took that box I walked down the hallway to the laundry chute and I sent it down the laundry chute it's like Scott Scott I can't get it now so that's what I would have you do throw your stuff down the laundry chute that's what I'll do if i junk food comes into my house I you know you know moment of self-discipline that I will never be able to sustain over the next three hours then in a flash of self-discipline I can take it out to the garbage run in there with the cat litter and I'm safe okay so that's one thing that I would tell you to do which is our fundamental number one the one number one rule and the pleasure craft is no junk food in the house and so when it gets in the house and you violated the rule the solution is to grit your teeth and jump off the high dive and hit the water get it out of your house and then it's gone then we can have sort of then you have this relief of your peace of mind yeah then we regret over the treat that you don't have that's in there with the cat poop but at the same time pretty soon it fades from your mind you will be scheming later about going back in store but that's a hassle well then you've got everybody looking at you because you don't have a mask on and wear your gloves and then you got to go and then you know you might run into somebody that you know and then they're there you are getting in the treats of course this helps you so get get rid of it okay now aside from that we're gonna tell you another good thing to do when you're home and isolated is to keep up your personal physical fitness there's a so-so if you can't go to the gym that's okay you can exercise vigorously at home get some music on or put a video on an exercise video and workout fairly hard and the reason is is that that will support your self-esteem it makes you feel good about yourself having worked your muscles hard broken sweat and you are you're more likely to feel like you know what I want to treat my body well so that's those are the two of the big things we want to clean up our environment and support our self-esteem if we do those two things often we're going to we're going to do a better job well you taught me that and I do both of those every day so so what about the people they keep saying but I'm overeating on starches why are people they'd still afraid of starch it drives me crazy no you need to interview dr. mcdougal again soon so he can yell at everybody well he actually contacted me today about being interviewed on Monday so stay tuned guys make sure you've got your notifications turned on and I'll try to send out a an email so I did promise this young lady that I would ask this question because she wasn't able to get an appointment with you and she's been suffering with an eating disorder for many years so this is her question from Anna hello I'm 40 years 41 years old and had been suffering from anorexia and bulimia for over 21 years now I have tried many treatments but most of them focus on restriction and other new ones on going all-in I also compete as a bikini pro and I need to maintain a good shape but I want to be healthy right now I am under 10 percent body fat I am 5 foot 10 inches tall and 125 pounds obviously I've had no period for many years do you believe that following the starch solution would help me with my huge hunger and never being satisfied after eating she's been eating a keto style diet you know salmon olive oil avocado with some vegetables and my binging and purging cycle do you think that a stay of either true north or fasting escape could help me with my bulimia I have I have a few comments to make about this so that's a courageous question to ask and let me let me give you a few perspectives on this the I think the start center diet is absolutely the way to go it's a way to be lean and fit and satisfied so I think that that's what what a person should do do I think this stay at a place like fasting escape run or maybe harder to get into at times but fasting Escape is generally not as overburdened and so I think that that like that could be a very good good rest for people and trying to sort of recalibrate and settle down and take take time out for themselves if it makes sense and then you have outstanding food there that is health supporting and in a really good balance now what do I think in general I think I see an Achilles heel that I that I have a momentary hesitation to mention and the so just I just want to give this person specifically feedback there are a few other people in similar kinds of circumstances not many but it's I'm answering this highly specific question I think it's a bad idea to be a bikini competitor I think that's a bad idea yeah so even though the person is probably very attractive you know unusually you know a very unusual sort of top top person in humanity for attractiveness or she wouldn't be in such competitions and so of course there's a great desire to display you know our unusual talents or assets and some way of course that's true so similarly if I had a person who is very very self-obsessed and very self-critical about their appearance and they were extremely beautiful and they could make a good living as a model I would tell them it's a bad idea okay go do something else because you may make a good living as a model that you are going to be psychologically tortured by by your personality that is inherently self-critical this is very unlikely to be the case here that we have an extremely attractive person who is also very naturally thin and yet we have a competitive situation where every ounce of contour is being examined by people and rated this is a terrible situation so this is going to cause this individual to be very concerned about things like how much or summin couch is out after she eats the potatoes that she should be eating and she'll go and check the mirror and she'll see your stomach food job and then show the all set and then she'll realize no what I need to eat is you know you know a half of a Snickers bar because that one which my stomach out and I'll feel more satisfied which is of course exactly the wrong thing to do to keep the bat off that it makes you look thin at the moment this is the kind of crazy making that goes on when we are put ourselves under such extraordinary self scrutiny so yeah even me who I've come to live with with my flaws pretty well up to six years but if I start see if somehow I'm going and checking my website where I Google myself which happens from time to sometime the I'll see a bunch of pictures of myself and I'll see my hair thinning over here and I'm like oh my god in other words I started I start a little obsessive cycle about the fact that my hair doesn't look the way it looked when I was 40 okay so and that's me who I'm I'm pretty like I said pretty at peace with with life okay so a person that is more inherently self-critical this is not a good strategy so I would I would have you run an experiment obviously it's just women who take the thing as first person's been doing for a long time it won't hurt you to skip a year of the competition opt out see what life is like eating a healthy mcdougal style diet they see what happens to your weight this will probably creep up three or four or five pounds okay you'll get healthy but nobody will care about this you'll still be just as beautiful as ever except that you won't be rail razor thin you may find menses coming back which means that you're actually a more appropriate balance okay most people would find switch in an individual probably more attractive than an individual that's actually short of menses because they're so lean okay but some people wouldn't and the bikini people with their little bizarre criteria might not think so but we got to get away from that so well this is this is really the real answer to a bulimic panicked highly anxious highly conscientious beautiful person who is making that beauty and unusual characteristics front and center in a public way and have the constant scrutiny this is too hard okay so this this reminds me of when we were kids when we hear about somebody getting famous and then we hear that they have problems and we roll our eyes like well if I could do like Michael Jackson I would have those problems I would just be rich and famous and he's just like really cool no not true then all it takes is three people giving us negative feedback on Facebook and a wrecks our whole day so negative feedback is something and scrutiny is not something that we want in droves and we don't want to be put ourselves in the limelight like that not unless you're made of really safe stable tough stuff and even then it's not easy so this person I would say please consider the possibility of sidelining yourself for a while and living life without that particular competition and let's and eat a healthy start center type diet and let's see whether or not life gets better oh my god you just thank you so much I just heard from this individual and she did manage to get an appointment with you in April and she is so appreciative of what you said so you get this is just like just perfect perfect thank you I was blown away by your answer I didn't expect it because I've not heard you say that before but it makes complete sense but don't don't you say I've heard you say that people that ain't general that binge not everybody that binges you know vomits which i think is they're not a very good habit you know for how things can really happen bad from that from what I understand but isn't it always the lack of starch that causes that because you know a lot of people are willing to eat these large volumes of vegetables and feel mechanically full for a short time but it doesn't I've been doing this eight years now you've been doing it you know a lot but it always comes back to the people are still afraid to eat starch yeah that's that's why I saying how John yellow I'm Arab young the people need to not be afraid of the starches the starches are considerably lower in calorie density than than the anthropological evidence indicates that was the natural level for our species and that's the level for our species is probably somewhere in the range of 6 to 700 Cardoza pound the starches are all less than that which means the starches are diluting your calorie intake ok relative to your species natural history so now when we mean starches you know what the medulla Program and elsewhere we mean we're actually there's another word in there that doesn't get put in there because it's yeah you know it's just one extra word that that I now put in wet wet starches okay the dry starches are buying carrier density crackers cookies biscuits bread and so that that's why we've learned over the last twenty thirty years that those even though they're starts as they can be very healthy biochemically they they can put weight on people so we don't mean unlimited starches of bread and jam we mean when it is starches of the natural state where they're wet so rice cakes are healthy food but they're dried starch if you have a weight problem there they will they will support you being overweight is there 14 minute count but rice is not gonna be a problem rice is five minutes ago potatoes are 375 squash is three hundred oak meals 325 beans are about 400 these are all very modest intermediate perfect in their caloric density you do not need to fear them you will not systematically overeat us but if you want to try you can entertain yourself one day by eating five pounds of beans just see if you can choke it down okay step away okay that's only 2,000 carrots you're not getting you're not going to do it you're not going to need five six pounds of potatoes go ahead go get yourself ten pounds of potatoes at the store and enormous sack and then just steam up six pounds of them and then see whether or not you can eat them and my guess will be you you really won't comfortably be able to fit bust it down and won't be interested starches are not the problem starches are the solution and so we need to have those even though fruits and vegetables and salad you know it's a modest amount of nuts and seeds these are part of a wholesome diet but the starches are the simmer and so that the wine debt being the solution to calming down people's hunger people stay away from those they can get very very hungry in in fits of self-discipline and they'll stay away from that and as you say if they eat a bunch of fruits and vegetables they're gonna get hungry and then by it being a fearing the starches what will often happen is they will then hit by density calories in a rage they will their their self-discipline will break because they're hungry and now they're going to go eat a whole jar of peanuts okay and it's like no that's just what we didn't want to do we didn't want to dive into 2500 calorie count food to fill you up to get you satiated we wanted you to be eating a you know rice and beans potatoes corn oats we wanted to have a very hearty soup it has kidney beans and rice and potatoes in there along with a bunch of vegetables that's what we wanted you to do and if we do that we're gonna be successful right because it's different when you eat dry oats they're like 1800 calories a pound but when you cook them in water you said there were like 365 we like I love that you say what starch is differentiating bread and and crackers and you know dry cereals right yeah if you're if you're a person struggling with your weight and you're at home right now and you're you're you know vegan ish and you are you're careful and you're trying to do all the right things you if you're eating a lot of dry starches which are very convenient and sit on the shelf and they're there for you all day long those those are part of the problem so you need to understand that that's you know when John wrote the maximum weight loss he was saying listen we got to be careful of the high-density foods this high-density foods include things like nuts and avocado and seeds and they also include the dry starches so processed cereal eggs so that's why it moves us more towards whole natural foods it's not that you have to eliminate all those things it's just that we have to moderate those you have to be wise about that and understand that you need to be getting most of your feeling for being full about staring at a large pile of starch somewhere on your plate or in your bowl that's what needs to be the bulk of what you're eating ok even though you're saying this and I believe you because so far you've never been wrong and least since I've known you about 10 years kelly is saying that when she eats unlimited starches like boiled potatoes and rice she gains weight and that she literally can eat 6 pounds of potatoes so these people are outliers right they need a session with you well I would say this and so oh because enough people think that and there's actually reasons why a lot of people will think that I would challenge them to do the following the one of the things that goes on is that when you eat starch if you eat a big bunch of starch and what's going to happen is you're going to store a lot of its glycogen and for every pound of starts that you store your also going to store two extra pounds of water so very often when people say dr. Lisle buy eat potatoes I gain weight what they really are saying is when I eat potatoes on Tuesday my scale goes up on Wednesday and Thursday that's what they're saying and they've done it seven or eight times maybe and it always happens and they say see causes me to gain weight that is not a legitimate assessment because you're the what we don't care but we don't care about your weight at all people we care about your fat your fat is you're gonna lose fat maybe at the rate of an ounce a day well you can't tell you know you eat potatoes on Tuesday and you're up you're up two pounds on by Wednesday afternoon you can't you don't know if you've gained any fat or not how would you know you're up 32 ounces yet are you up 33 ounces of water and glycogen and you've lost an ounce of fat I will say that that's probably what happened okay but you're up 32 ounces you're up two pounds and you're screaming hey I can't eat starch I know what you have to do is you have to take data over time so you want to eat you start Center diet so if you're going to start on the first of April April Fool's Day sometimes start this so April Fool's Day we have fun with ourselves and we we have three three days where we take a consecutive measurement of our weight on April first second and third we take the average in the morning stripped in your underwear and we write that down let's say it's 168 counts okay that is our best guess of what you're weightless so we're gonna say you know you don't have a weight because every time you take a breath you breathe out some of your own molecules so you are a little bit lighter with every breath that you take and so you don't have a weight KJ you've got about a weight so after a three day average gives us more or less a good index of what your weight is so let's suppose somebody's 168 ounces so now what we want them to do this to eat this maximum weight loss start Center diet that they do not have to hold back on the starches that's what I want them to do and I want to do exactly what we would recommend let's reduce or eliminate and that's avocado and seeds let's get rid of the dried carbohydrate and once and and otherwise we're not going to restrict Thanks so that's what we're gonna do so now we're going to do that and now we're going to look at it a month later and on May first second and third we're going to take the same measurements now if you're down two pounds there's a good chance that you've actually drop two pounds in the last 30 days which is no small thing now for many of us that are trying to lose weight when we'll be frustrated with us but we shouldn't be because if you lost two pounds that's the equivalent of here here's a about a 16 ounce thing of water right here that I'm holding you lost two of these full of fat okay that's a huge amount of progress you may not be able to see it you may be frustrated that the number is only down from 168 to 166 but the truth is it means that you've got to eat to satiation on healthy food you did not have to diet otherwise and you're down two of these in 30 days that's pretty good now that was only an ounce a day thank you but you can't possibly see that measuring today so my challenge to everybody who thinks that if they eat starch as they gain weight my question would be really did you do do this program very well for 60 straight days did you measure your your weight in three consecutive days and take an average on the first day of every month and did we see a trend that you gained weight okay if that's true I'm going to be very surprised if that's true in fact I believe that the trend will go the other one okay so if the trend if you've gained weight you did you actually do do this or were there other things that snuck in and so don't be blaming the starts I think people blame the starch for various reasons but the most important reason is when they eat starch a lot of starch their weight goes up in the next 24 or 48 hours and they think that the starches are causing weight gain they are they are causing short-term weight gain but they're not causing any factor and ultimately the solution can you getting your weight on this thank you so much you know I think a lot of times like you had mentioned with the person that's competing in bikini contests many women that come to us have a strong history of a restricting type of program like a way measuring programs and they're not actually used to being full because our next question believe it or not this is perfect was about stretch receptors which I'll read but people are posting you know they don't like it when their stomach goes out I just want to show you this is my stomach after I eat big deal it goes down I mean I'm eating ten pounds of food a day you think it's not gonna poof out but I've been skinny now for like you know six years and I mean nobody eats it so it goes down but I'm not doing bikini competitions but here's the question about the stretch receptors so from from Cana I believe I'm pronouncing her name right does though this is this way of eating stretch your stomach for more volume to satiety because I mean I think that these women that come to us dr. Lao they've just never eaten enough food hmm the your sensitivity to how much you eat is going to be dynamic so it's gonna change so let's suppose that you eat a low calorie dense let's suppose you've been eating a high calorie dense diet so you've been getting you know 2,000 calories a day but you've been getting it on three pounds of food or let's say two and a half pounds of food so let's suppose that you've been eating 800 calorie count food on that looks pretty healthy but a little on the rich side and the the extra rich richness of the diet has caused you to be twenty-five pounds overweight so you frustrated and you're ready to try something new and you find our arena of the world and you decide you're going to do what we do and we're going to eat foods that are going to be more like 600 calories a pound on average so we're gonna drop us down in chlorine tensity and we're going to increase the amount of food from two and a half pounds a day the three and a half pounds to today and so as a result at first it's going to be a little uncomfortable it's going to be like wow I'm really full you know because the stretch receptors are not going to be used to getting that much stretch however that's going to pass because it's gonna their nerves they get used to the kind of stimulation that that they are they're exposed to consistently so as a result that's going to go on for a while and then and then if you went back and a very concentrated food you might you might not be as satisfied and you might overeat a little more so for a short period of time so the answer to this is that these processes are dynamic they're not stuck so you don't quote stretch your stomach out and then you've got a disaster no your your stomach doesn't stretch anyway folks it's not like if you put a bunch of stuff in it stretches the stomach the stomach is a essentially it's an organ system it's a fixed dynamic what you're talking about is as the stomach is stretched when we put stuff in it how uncomfortable do you get the more the more the lower density food that you get were where there's more bulk inside the stomach yet you will get used to that so that it won't be screaming as loud to you it won't be saying after you know I've had we've all heard this since I was a kid oh well I eat Chinese food you know I feel so full and then an hour later I feel like I haven't eaten anything yeah that's that that's the that's the talk of a man who eats a very high fat diet and eats steak and cheese that he eats actually in physically small amounts and gets satisfied that way goes to Chinese food which is could be far less than calorie density so he eats a huge amount and he's like oh my god I'm full but he didn't really have any more calories than he ever does but then an hour later or actually might be less and then an hour later he's hungry he's hungry because he didn't actually need that many calories he's used to eating and so now he's hungry again and he's surprised well that's because it's a different calorie density and it's got a different dynamic you know don't worry about your stomach stretching or not stretching etc etc there's this fear that if I eat a bunch of low calorie dense foods buy some extras out and then if I go back to rich foods I'm going to need eight pounds a day of rich food and now I'm going to be eating like 8,000 calories a day and the answer is no you won't know you are very if you were to go back to higher density foods this system would very quickly adapt to that and that's how that looks and it's not stretch reception isn't the only actor in the equation anyway you have nutrient receptors that are monitoring the calorie density of initiated so that if you are somebody like myself when we said great or low calorie dense food not even close to AJ by the way AJ eats me under the table two to one okay so I'm probably eating 700 carry day our calorie count diet AJ is eating 300 or so completely different diet in other words very similar foods biochemically but but your food is far richer in fiber and far far higher water content that's just how it is that's fine both of them are excellent diets the however the however if you were to eat something very rich AJ you're even though wouldn't stretchers stomach out very much you would your chemical receptors in your stomach would tell they could tell they'd be like whoa you just you just fed me a handful peanuts there's a lot of calories in here AJ what did you just do to me okay so the system is smarter than just stretch reception and it does not even though it gets used to a certain level of stretch it also will change and it will be dynamic the whole system folks is engineered where it's attempting to be accurate it's attempting to get you to eat the the right amount of food for your optimum health that is how it's designed okay so in the same way if you were to drive from Los Angeles to Aspen your your brain would now start filling your lungs more or a high respiration rate because of the lower concentration of the oxygen okay you might say oh no well now if I do that and I'm breathing harder and deeper what happens when I go back to Los Angeles so I'm going to hyperventilate so I'll be read too much no you want the system will really regulate back down in Los Angeles at sea level okay so these systems are dynamic and they are designed by nature to get this accurate there will be short-term adjustments but never long-term stuck process that is biologically impossible okay so I hope that answers that question that was great and you know I think the problem isn't the people are eating starch and perceiving that they're gaining weight the problem is is they're weighing themselves I'm running a 21-day program right now on on day six they where people were complaining that they're at a plateau on day six of eating this way you know AJ that's a beautiful observation and so all we can do is to try to you know I have great empathy for everybody because they're committed they've learned a lot they know what direction they ought to go they're doing it and then they're expecting very fast results that they can measure which would be normal if we were trying to teach you math if we're time to teach you math we would give you little quizzes at every little section and you could see that you've made progress and you would get you it's called feedback the problem that we have with weight loss is that the feedback systems are unnatural for people okay the feedback systems are the legitimate feedback systems take several weeks for us to see even a mild amount of legitimate measurement of change and what's in here is a bunch of noise and the noise is super confusing and we'll throw people off their motivational game so what I want you to do is to trust us and to not be measuring yourself every day we expect something spectacular like for example two pounds a month so you might be more if you're very overweight and you have made a big change towards us you might lose eight pounds in a month but most people aren't there most people are 20 30 40 50 pounds overweight and so when they make those changes you're not going to probably see ten or eight ten pounds in a month you could but it's not very likely it's more likely we're gonna see two or three so AJ I think we saw two pounds a month for 27 months with you okay this was a this was a slow dance people it was perfectly executed slow dance it did not AJ did not lose 50 pounds for months she did not lose 50 pounds in eight months she didn't lose 50 pounds in a year she lost 54 pounds in 27 months so let's be patient with yourselves this is a lifetime way of walking it's not even a marathon it's not a race it's just we get it right and we allow the system to normalize beautifully is we're going to continue with a very healthy path not for a short period of time on a diet to lose weight so then we can go back to everything else now we need to make the changes now that that are comfortable and that we're willing to make you get used to it so that we can make them forever it doesn't mean you're never going to do anything naughty it just means you better not doing very much naughty very often that's women's wow that's incredible you know I want people to know that if they love you as much as I love you and can't get enough of you dr. Lisle actually we did a course called escaping the pleasure trap where he talks about this in great detail and I think it's still available but even if it's not we're gonna run it again later and now with so much time at home this would be perfect then we could be talking quite a bit of this I would love for you to talk even more about this these stretch and nutrient receptors because I read the pleasure trap and I know how you'd have the concept of the yawl circuits you're overweight eat less but I just always wonder if stretch receptors and nutrient receptors can you see them under a microscope how is your brain involved because I had an you had mentioned that if I ate some rich food which I never would do intentionally I would know I had an incident recently I forgot to tell you about it but it you made me think of it but first I do want to say that I didn't lose the weight very slowly over 27 months and I didn't own a scale at the time so I didn't else and if I did I would have probably never done it because I would have given up on day six like everyone else and say see it doesn't work I'm at a plateau so I I was in a new friends house and I thought she knew exactly how I ate and I went to her house for dinner and the booths like she had made a salad dressing that she had just seen chefs Bravo make on the summit so I knew I could eat that she have a salad she had all different kinds of baked and roasted potatoes sweet potatoes and she made a cheese sauce like a fake vegan cheese sauce and I said what's in it and she goes oh I made it out of carrots and potatoes which is completely doable there's many cheese sauces that are made out of that so I'm eating it numb this is good and remember dr. Golding ever saying that when something is really good spit it out so I'm eating this cheese sauce I'm like this is good this is really good and I'm eating it and eating and I'm putting it on everything and then I said can I see the recipe this is really good and guess what was in it that she didn't tell me a shitload of cashews that's grass and it's like I was eating it under false pretense you know not knowing but I knew that was something because I'm like I said are you sure you put salt in here oh no Bensons table taste I'm like cuz my migraine is like I like this too much because I can take to relieve the vegan cheese sauces there all right I don't do them a lot but but I might so what does my great how does your brain know when you're being fooled did your your taste receptors can pick up the calorie density they're an energy detection system as they should be for goodness sakes they're trying to help you make decisions on what on earth - to than Jess so you're in internal natural genius of your design and sniff it okay and notice what it did it literally said come to me kept-kept using your muscles to close the distance between you and that food okay keep bringing it in keep bringing it in just as it was designed and then because you've learned you know you because you're you're one a thousand in terms of knowledge of nutrition and human motivation around the food you said to yourself AJ you like this a little too much I felt with us by the way I think I told you the story and the soup wine that I ate the soup in a soup place that Alan why I always went for lunch at and it said vegan and it said there's nothing in it and and I went back to the office I said Alan you got to get over there and taste harvest harvest butternut squash soup I mean it's vegan it's clean it's great he goes it has cream in it I said no I read the ingredients assists yeah it does I tasted one bite knew it was too much went back and talked to the chef and they said yeah we for criminal so it takes this is the value of being paranoid no so Allen's got a nice paranoid streak I don't I trusted and yeah if it's too good to be true it's probably too good to be true right this is great Xena's saying unfortunately my y'all circuits have been on hiatus my entire life rich food doesn't register and I have to stay away because I can't regulate it so yeah fantastic I knew I could talk to you forever but I want to respect your time and who knows how long we'll be sheltering in place I've got a lot of great guests coming up including dr. mcdougal but you have an open invitation any time of the day or night you feel like going live to you know five or six hundred people just text me and because you have so much to say and people love the way you say you've got so many fans admirers many of them women by the way fess up this has been terrific and we'll get you that information about the pleasure trap class make sure you're signed up to be on my mailing list because we will send it out but it may be available now I just say I don't know so thank you dr. Lyle you are just it's just been a very reassuring talking to you great seeing you AJ thanks for having me okay thanks everybody and see you tomorrow when we have somebody that's going to do a sound bold healing bye bye
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