To get a shareable link to a certain place in the audio,
hover your mouse over the relevent text,
right click, and "copy link address"
(mobile: long press & copy link address)
 
what can I do they always play music
o'clock on my street alright just
waiting for it to go alive let's see hi
everybody and welcome to today's live
with one of our very favorite people in
the plant-based community actually in
the whole world dr. Doug Lyall if you're
unfamiliar with him then please just go
to Amazon or audible right now and get
the pleasure trap the extraordinary book
he co-wrote with dr. Alan Goldhamer he
has an amazing podcast every Wednesday
night with dr. Jenn Hawk who we
interviewed a few days ago it's called
beat your genes and you can listen to it
live on BlogTalkRadio or you can listen
to a pre-recorded on itunes or on
Spotify stitcher so many ways there's
several hundred episodes now and two of
them he talks about kovin which we're
going to talk about a little bit today
but we don't want the whole hour to be
about it because there's already so many
wonderful interviews that he's done
about that people like dr. mcdougal has
done it too did I give myself a haircut
no I broke quarantine and I allowed my
hairdresser to come over so I don't
think I can get arrested for that but
I'll tell you this is not the best time
to be growing out your hair sharing this
during this selfish sheltering at home
so as you know we always give
preferential treatment to people that
write in to us from our mailing list so
we're going to go to those questions
first and if dr. Lyle has time will
answer your questions here as well thank
you so much dr. Lyle I love always a
pleasure AJ yeah
you're my fav I just I just I always
feel like at the end of Wizard of Oz you
know where Dorothy says because you know
the Scarecrow the Cowardly Lion and the
Tin Man I think of you gold hammer and
MacDougal I sometimes I want to say this
like she said the Scarecrow I love you
most of all so cuz he liked to scare me
frankly you know that's why I love them
too so the first question will be about
COBIT and then we will go on to some
other fun topics like bulimia and
weighing yourself so this person didn't
know how to ask questions live so that's
great that she sent it in I have only
one question that is weighing heavy on
my chest the scarier part of the Kovic
nineteen pandemic is if you get the
virus you don't know if you will have a
mild case or if you will die that is a
large range I am following all the rules
but I need to go to the market every two
weeks with my gloves masks and
sunglasses quite a sight is she asking
if she should go with the gloves and
mask
I think her question is that I guess
it's me I don't really actually see a
question mark in this but she's saying I
I think she's fearful because you don't
know if you have it if you'll be a very
mild case or if it'll end up you'll end
up dying so I like yeah mmm right I
think the the the answer that is in in
the existing evidence and the existing
evidence overwhelmingly indicates that
that if you are if you are pretty
healthy then your then your odds are
going to be low of having you know
obviously a fatality that the vast
majority of the fatalities are taking
place in people that are have health
compromises and and very significantly
and troublingly it's not just that it's
age so ages is the biggest factor so if
you're a healthy 75 year old you may be
more vulnerable than if you are a not so
healthy 55 year old so the so if you are
an elderly person if you are 170 for
example I would I would say we don't
know enough about the virus and why it
is that those numbers look that way it
could just be and probably is just sort
of general health and general resistance
capacity and that the average 75 year
old just doesn't have the resistance
capacity that a 55 year old house but
the difference statistically at this
moment from what we can see the
difference between a 75 year old and a
55 year old much less a 35 year old if
you're 35 it would be an extraordinary
situation for you two to be in trouble
this virus you might get sick you might
have a nasty flu kind of thing but but
the odds of you dying are are extremely
small the you wouldn't worry about this
any more than you would the flu and you
wouldn't be thinking you're gonna die of
the flu you might feel like it that you
know you're not going to same thing
would be true here the but that's not
true if you're 75 so the older folks
were not sure why we're considerably
more vulnerable probably most of that
vulnerability has to do with they they
just don't have as much cardio pulmonary
function they're just not as tough and
so when they I know a lot of a lot of
other people when they when they die
they die from essentially obstructed
Airways you know they catch a cold they
catch a respiratory virus and they can't
clear their throat they essentially
suffocate and that's not an in common
you know situation to happen so so if
you are if you're 75 you probably can't
cough the way you could get when you
were 55 you just don't quite have the
steam and if you get a bad case of this
you know it's much riskier so the first
thing I would ask you anybody asks
themselves how old they are and if
you're over 70 then you need to be extra
careful and if you're if you're not if
you're under 60 then you still want to
be careful and smart that you you're not
you're not likely to be facing anything
that's bad at imitating that's what I
would say also General Health looks to
be a big issue if you're a healthy 75
year old you are almost certainly going
to be fine
if you are if you're a sick if you've
got diabetes and you've got you know
COPD if you got some you've got some
significant issues and you wheeze going
up three stairs then you need to be
extra careful here in this next period
of time
Jan wants to know if obesity itself is a
comorbid condition if
don't have diabetes heart or lung
conditions no I wouldn't think so
usually obesity is is a mild correlate
with most things and when when we do
what's called partial correlation or we
pull away things like do you have heart
disease do you have diabetes and we pull
that away from obesity we find that
obesity itself isn't isn't particularly
impactful on human health so so got that
I would say know if you can walk around
the block and you're in pretty good
cardiovascular shape and and you're
overweight I wouldn't be thinking that
you're any particular extra risk so I
highly wants to know is the virus able
to live on frozen foods and their bags
for over two years should we be
disinfecting every frozen food bag
before we put it in the freezer and
cooking any frozen food before we eat it
to kill the virus oh I I wouldn't I
wouldn't know I'm not sure that's known
okay the the virus has a as a half-life
that's been established so on in
laboratory conditions so I don't know
what it is eight hours on a spin so you
know so eight hours after eight hours
half of its gone after another eight
hours and other half of its gone after
another eight hours another half of its
gone so there's going to be a half-life
situation I don't think it's likely to
be the case that very cold weather is
going to extend that situation
particularly a lot so I doubt I would
doubt very seriously in other words the
virus has been living in and around cold
things it can handle the cold without a
big problem but that doesn't mean the
cold is very likely to preserve it in
any spectacular way so probably if you
touch your vegetables and you put them
in that and you've got the virus on your
hands or somebody does and they throw it
in a freezer it's very likely that the
half-life is just like it always is or
maybe a little bit slower so maybe they
half-life is 12 hours instead of 8 which
means that in two or three or four days
it's down to such low levels that it has
to be unimportant so yeah I wouldn't
worry about your frozen vegetables okay
wants to know if you personally are
going to the store and how you are
protecting yourself yeah I go to the
store but but I'm I'm trying to not
touch the cart we're rainy other hands
to touch the cart and so I I go in there
and like a previous life when I might
wander through the store just looking at
interesting things and it's always good
to see dr. McDougall stuff on the shelf
yeah Bob's Red Mill I go visit my
friends at the store the but nowadays
I'm you know gonna go in there I'm gonna
go get what I'm gonna get that I'm going
to get out so I go more targeted these
days just so you know I I mean all these
people are putting hearts how much they
love you dr. Darrell Woodrow watchin
saying that Doug is the best I mean you
when you when you come on the numbers
just go up just so you know how this
might you don't know how popular you are
now I think you're gonna like this I
don't want to spend too much more time
on coders we do have other topics but
you will like this question because I
know you are statistics ition you love
numbers but Jeana says does the
percentage of failed cases also depend
on how many people can be treated at the
hospital how does this affect stats from
Germany 0.3% in the rest of the world
okay so somebody's now asking there's
really only a couple of questions that
mean anything with respect to this virus
and those questions are being answered
now and the the the answers are not
known so this is why very smart people
have different intuition about this and
sometimes they you know they those
intuitions are strong enough for them
that they have opinions that are strong
the I have my own opinion it's not a
strong opinion in other words my opinion
will blow a different direction if the
evidence comes in and so right now I'm
quite optimistic about the outcomes of
this but I'm nervous just like everybody
else
I have friends of mine that I respect
that are way more concerned than I am
and so in other words they think we're
looking at a much bigger problem than
the one that I
think I think we're looking at if I had
to guess AJ I think we're looking at a
very bad flu-like situation maybe two or
three times worse than the flu and that
that it's going to hit our elderly
population hard and it's going to be bad
but it's not going to be a catastrophe
okay so that's my thinking so let me
give you let me give you the reasons
free flea why it is there are widely
held different opinions and and sort of
the different angles of the it's kind of
like a you know f scott Fitzgerald when
he wrote you the Great Gatsby look at
him from the eyes of different people
and so you're so you you you're not sure
you know who's got the truth on this
because you've got several different
perspectives the the World Health
Organization data right now I looked at
it I'm always looking at it you know
this is my scale folks I'm a scale
monkey I'm a coronavirus scale monkey so
I gotta keep looking at the numbers the
as EV this morning March 28th we have we
have about six six hundred thousand
confirmed cases worldwide and about
twenty seven thousand people have died
that if you do the numbers on that
that's roughly four percent now that is
terrifying because if you were to map
this four percent on the US population
we have three hundred million people
that be obese 12 million people that
would be World War three like numbers so
the question is should we be worried
about those numbers and my answer would
be now we shouldn't worry about those
numbers and the reason why we shouldn't
worry about those numbers is the
following that the four percent of death
or the 27,000 people dead are a quite
accurate count of how many people have
died the corona virus in other words all
over the world
physicians are looking at this and
they're testing these people and they
have a
no death that they go through that they
know and they can confirm that it's
coronavirus death and it's more or less
27,000 people in the last three months
the question is are there 600,000
confirmed cases is that a good estimate
and the answer is no it's a horrible
estimate it's the only people that we've
tested so we have 10 we've only tested a
tiny fraction of the world's population
so this would be akin to saying for
example people you know there's people
die in Toyotas so 27,000 people have
died in Toyotas you know yeah and so now
let's go check how many and the Toyotas
there are in in South East Los Angeles
and we have some number that we count
and we say oh my god 27,000 people died
out of the 600,000 Toyotas you had
27,000 people nationwide died out of out
of out of the 600,000 Toyotas that we
counted in Los Angeles because we
counted 6 other files it's like yeah you
didn't count the whole country you've
got to find out how many Toyotas there
are in the whole country how many people
got this virus well if we only test in
1% of the world which would have an off
button we know that there are a hundred
times more pieces there aren't 600,000
cases in the world folks there are 60
million cases in the world
Betty so let's look at what this
translates to in the United States where
more people attempted to be tested not
very many we have that's my mother
that's the one that's the one you can
ring through on your podcast AJ is my
mother we'd love to talk to her the the
and the United States 1,700 people have
died as of this morning me and there's
been a hundred thousand cases so that
that looks like 1.7 percent basically
that also would be a terrifying number
if that were true so one
seven would mean that in 300 million
people we'd have five million deaths we
would be facing now that's better than
the four percent that the World Health
Organization posting looks like but 1.6
or 1.7 is still a catastrophe this is
the number that is very intimidating and
scary this is what mobilized though the
government and this is what has caused
all the discussion something that would
be around 1% and running at 1.6 right
now
smart people looking at that or saying
wow that's scary but once again I want
to ask you how many people have we
actually checked for the virus and the
answer is maybe a million so that means
we've only checked one in 300 people
because we got 300 million people so
statistically we have to multiply the
number of cases by a factor of 300 so
that means we wouldn't expect that
there's not a hundred thousand cases
there's 30 million now I don't think
they're wrong cause I think that the
original people tested are very
concentrated and if positive the the
evidence from all over the world places
like Germany Iceland etc looks like this
virus is running at 2 or 3 percent of
the population in in Seattle if you're
testing at about 7 or 8 percent but
they're testing mostly sick people so if
we look at the United States my guess is
that we have at least 1% of people in
the United States are infected if that
were not true we wouldn't be seeing it
all over the New York City we wouldn't
be seeing it all over another state in
other words we probably got 1% of the
population infected at this point AJ
that's 3 million people we only have a
hundred thousand confirmed cases but
we've only tested a tiny mountain people
so how on earth did we confirm everybody
in Iowa and in Dallas and in Los Angeles
and in Fresno and in Tennessee and in
the backwoods of the Ozarks how could we
possibly confirm those cases when they
haven't been any
we're near a doctor of course we have a
hundred times more cases than we have
confirmed so in the United States we
undoubtedly have at least five million
cases now maybe it's only three notes we
may only have one percent of the United
States may be infected right now it's
probably two percent but it may only be
one person if it's one percent that
means we have three million kisses that
means 700 people have died out of three
million kisses that's about one in 2,000
now understand what a difference that is
the posted reign is 1.6 percent that's a
catastrophe one point six percent one
point six people out of every hundred
that that would be five million
Americans die but right now that's not
what the evidence likely indicates the
evidence likely indicates that this is
less than one in a thousand that's a
huge difference today 1000 is what the
flu gets to us every year that's how
many people die every year the flu right
now the evidence would indicate that
this is less lethal than the flu now do
I believe that no because the those
people but 10 million 5 million people
that I think were infected haven't gone
through the virus yet so we're gonna see
the numbers go up which is what you see
every day so we had two or three hundred
more people die yesterday and it looks
scary because it's grown well that's
because I think you got 5 or 10 million
people in the United States with this
virus ok so now we did the great
question that the smart people are
arguing is is this gonna kill more like
one four percent or is it going to kill
more like attempted beside that that's a
legitimate and terrifying question and
so that's why I have good friends of
mine let's say Doug I think it's more
likely to be closer to one percent daddy
and they are worried as they should be I
think it's more likely to be 1/10 of a
percent I'm worried because they could
be right today I could easily be wrong
it could be that the
we find out that in the next month these
numbers go astronomical that we have we
we've got five million cases and it
turns out it's one percent and we wind
up with something like 50,000 deaths in
the United States in the next 30 days
that could be true if that is true which
nobody knows age I know everybody needs
to have an opinion and they have needs
very strong it intuition but it is not
known okay
the right now we don't have that
evidence because we've got 1,700 people
out of a likely five million infections
so right this second this thing looks
like the flu which is no small thing to
have a new clue get loose particularly
because in the flu you've got so many
people sort of immune and so every year
we have 50 million cases but this could
go all the way to 300 million kisses so
this could this could literally go
through the entire population so even a
tenth of a percent would be a big deal
yeah now what do I think I think it's
worse than the flu
okay I think it's likely to be worse
than one in a thousand it might be
200,000 do I think it's 1 in 100
absolutely not
so I don't think we're looking I think
we're looking at a very bad year but I
don't think we're looking at the
extraordinary catastrophe that some very
smart people are worried about very
smart people were worried enough that
they screamed loud enough from the
scientific community that it MCDOT the
government's ear and the government
acted in the only responsible way which
is stamp as hard as you can early on an
epidemic so that you give us a chance to
catch up that that makes sense did we do
enough who knows you always could have
done more I guess in China that I've
heard that they were welding people into
their apartments companies we can't do
that in the United States okay so we can
ask people and we can say listen let's
let's really be together on this and be
smart because we don't know what we're
dealing with AJ right now we what this
is all about is this is a a edgy
discussion among and the brightest minds
that we have trying to
figure it out now here's the thing it's
not a mystery that will last forever in
the next 30 days we will know because we
will have enough evidence from enough
numbers that you'll actually know is
this more like one in a thousand or is
it more like 1 in 100
okay this I told you in a text earlier
today I said people disagree with me
that I respect they could be right I
think I'm right and I hope I'm wrong
okay
I really hope I'm right I I think I
think that essentially it's not about
who's smarter it's about what that what
the actual facts are on what the numbers
are
my intuition look I look at the amount
of deaths that we're seeing worldwide
395 in Germany Germany's got I don't
know 80 million people they've got 2% or
3% infected that's two couple of million
people are infected in Germany and they
have 400 deaths that doesn't look too
scary that that looks like okay this
looks like the flu Danny we don't know
is am I only seeing the very tip of the
iceberg I'll know in 30 days okay so
this is where we are and this is where
we stand and I side with every worried
worried person that says be careful wash
your hands don't visit your grandmother
a course we have to err on the side of
great caution what do I what is my
intuition tell me about the numbers it
tells me that it's a bad flu season
that's what it tells me and it tells me
this is going to hit our elderly hard so
it's a particularly bad flu season but I
don't see a catastrophe okay so that's
what I think and and like I said I hope
I'm right would you mind if I made a
couple nice comments about you before
they go because what happens is they
disappear after a while so let's see a
lot of people are saying they hope
you're right - Gina says dr. Lyle has
groupies lol and I'm one of
Maria says dr. Lisle is my favorite
person ever there's a lot of about how a
lot of these comments are about how
handsome you are and they're just so so
I just you need to know that that people
really appreciate your calm presence
during this time so I don't want to
really talk covert anymore etc or how
it's affecting our people meaning my
people in your people they're basically
the same people and we lovingly call
them H CNCs which are really hyper
conscientious nutcases and so like most
humans we all look at everything how it
affects us and so what the comments I'm
getting are for example from Laurel I've
been working from home and keep eating
and eating and eating starches how do I
stop Cheri says I'm worried about
staying away from the junk food and
there was one more comment here how
somebody is reacting to this
intentionally going off plans so how do
we help our people regardless of how
this turns out to stop eatin well AJ you
and I always circle back to the
fundamentals if we're eating a bunch of
junk food where did we get it our day so
we recognize if it's in the house you
know it's in your mouth and so for
goodness sakes take the junk food right
now in in a fit of self-discipline I
throw it in your garbage can and take
your garbage can outside into your big
garbage can and dump it don't leave it
in the back dump it down into the
garbage can that way you won't be
fishing down there for it okay
so literally in two minutes if you need
to clean out your house just grit your
teeth and clean it out okay then you
don't have to think about it so I this
is what I had a friend that lived in a
high-rise that have one of those laundry
sheets and I brought over boxes sees
candy that somebody had given me a
Christmas time this is about 15 years
ago and I looked at that box and I knew
that I was going to want to eat a whole
lot of it and instead I took out about
three pieces and then I took that box I
walked down the hallway to the laundry
chute and I sent it down the laundry
chute it's like Scott Scott I can't get
it now
so that's what I would have you do throw
your stuff down the laundry chute that's
what I'll do if i junk food comes into
my house I you know you know moment of
self-discipline that I will never be
able to sustain over the next three
hours then in a flash of self-discipline
I can take it out to the garbage run in
there with the cat litter and I'm safe
okay so that's one thing that I would
tell you to do which is our fundamental
number one the one number one rule and
the pleasure craft is no junk food in
the house and so when it gets in the
house and you violated the rule the
solution is to grit your teeth and jump
off the high dive and hit the water get
it out of your house and then it's gone
then we can have sort of then you have
this relief of your peace of mind
yeah then we regret over the treat that
you don't have that's in there with the
cat poop but at the same time pretty
soon it fades from your mind you will be
scheming later about going back in store
but that's a hassle well then you've got
everybody looking at you because you
don't have a mask on and wear your
gloves and then you got to go and then
you know you might run into somebody
that you know and then they're there you
are getting in the treats of course
this helps you so get get rid of it okay
now aside from that we're gonna tell you
another good thing to do when you're
home and isolated is to keep up your
personal physical fitness there's a
so-so if you can't go to the gym that's
okay you can exercise vigorously at home
get some music on or put a video on an
exercise video and workout fairly hard
and the reason is is that that will
support your self-esteem it makes you
feel good about yourself having worked
your muscles hard broken sweat and you
are you're more likely to feel like you
know what I want to treat my body well
so that's those are the two of the big
things we want to clean up our
environment and support our self-esteem
if we do those two things often we're
going to we're going to do a better job
well
you taught me that and I do both of
those every day so so what about the
people they keep saying but I'm
overeating on starches why are people
they'd still afraid of starch it drives
me crazy no you need to interview dr.
mcdougal again soon so he can yell at
everybody well he actually contacted me
today about being interviewed on Monday
so stay tuned guys make sure you've got
your notifications turned on and I'll
try to send out a an email so I did
promise this young lady that I would ask
this question because she wasn't able to
get an appointment with you and she's
been suffering with an eating disorder
for many years so this is her question
from Anna hello I'm 40 years 41 years
old and had been suffering from anorexia
and bulimia for over 21 years now I have
tried many treatments but most of them
focus on restriction and other new ones
on going all-in I also compete as a
bikini pro and I need to maintain a good
shape
but I want to be healthy right now I am
under 10 percent body fat I am 5 foot 10
inches tall and 125 pounds
obviously I've had no period for many
years do you believe that following the
starch solution would help me with my
huge hunger and never being satisfied
after eating she's been eating a keto
style diet you know salmon olive oil
avocado with some vegetables and my
binging and purging cycle do you think
that a stay of either true north or
fasting escape could help me with my
bulimia I have I have a few comments to
make about this so that's a courageous
question to ask and let me let me give
you a few perspectives on this the I
think the start center diet is
absolutely the way to go it's a way to
be lean and fit and satisfied so I think
that that's what what a person should do
do I think this stay at a place like
fasting escape run or maybe harder to
get into at times but fasting Escape is
generally not as overburdened and so I
think that that like that could be a
very good good
rest for people and trying to sort of
recalibrate and settle down and take
take time out for themselves if it makes
sense and then you have outstanding food
there that is health supporting and in a
really good balance now what do I think
in general I think I see an Achilles
heel that I that I have a momentary
hesitation to mention and the so just I
just want to give this person
specifically feedback there are a few
other people in similar kinds of
circumstances not many but it's I'm
answering this highly specific question
I think it's a bad idea to be a bikini
competitor I think that's a bad idea
yeah so even though the person is
probably very attractive you know
unusually you know a very unusual sort
of top top person in humanity for
attractiveness or she wouldn't be in
such competitions and so of course
there's a great desire to display you
know our unusual talents or assets and
some way of course that's true so
similarly if I had a person who is very
very self-obsessed and very
self-critical about their appearance and
they were extremely beautiful and they
could make a good living as a model I
would tell them it's a bad idea okay go
do something else because you may make a
good living as a model that you are
going to be psychologically tortured by
by your personality that is inherently
self-critical this is very unlikely to
be the case here that we have an
extremely attractive person who is also
very naturally thin and yet we have a
competitive situation where every ounce
of contour is being examined by people
and rated this is a terrible situation
so this is going to cause this
individual to be very concerned about
things like how much or summin couch is
out after she eats the potatoes that she
should be eating and she'll go and check
the mirror and she'll see your stomach
food job and then show the
all set and then she'll realize no what
I need to eat is you know you know a
half of a Snickers bar because that one
which my stomach out and I'll feel more
satisfied which is of course exactly the
wrong thing to do to keep the bat off
that it makes you look thin at the
moment this is the kind of crazy making
that goes on when we are put ourselves
under such extraordinary self scrutiny
so yeah even me who I've come to live
with with my flaws pretty well up to six
years but if I start see if somehow I'm
going and checking my website where I
Google myself which happens from time to
sometime the I'll see a bunch of
pictures of myself and I'll see my hair
thinning over here and I'm like oh my
god in other words I started I start a
little obsessive cycle about the fact
that my hair doesn't look the way it
looked when I was 40 okay so and that's
me who I'm I'm pretty like I said pretty
at peace with with life okay so a person
that is more inherently self-critical
this is not a good strategy so I would I
would have you run an experiment
obviously it's just women who take the
thing as first person's been doing for a
long time it won't hurt you to skip a
year of the competition opt out see what
life is like eating a healthy mcdougal
style diet they see what happens to your
weight this will probably creep up three
or four or five pounds okay you'll get
healthy but nobody will care about this
you'll still be just as beautiful as
ever except that you won't be rail razor
thin you may find menses coming back
which means that you're actually a more
appropriate balance okay most people
would find switch in an individual
probably more attractive than an
individual that's actually short of
menses because they're so lean okay but
some people wouldn't and the bikini
people with their little bizarre
criteria might not think so but we got
to get away from that
so well this is this is really the real
answer to a bulimic panicked highly
anxious highly conscientious beautiful
person who is making that beauty and
unusual characteristics front and center
in a public way and have the constant
scrutiny this is too hard okay so this
this reminds me of when we were kids
when we hear about somebody getting
famous and then we hear that they have
problems and we roll our eyes like well
if I could do like Michael Jackson I
would have those problems I would just
be rich and famous and he's just like
really cool no not true then all it
takes is three people giving us negative
feedback on Facebook and a wrecks our
whole day
so negative feedback is something and
scrutiny is not something that we want
in droves and we don't want to be put
ourselves in the limelight like that not
unless you're made of really safe stable
tough stuff and even then it's not easy
so this person I would say please
consider the possibility of sidelining
yourself for a while and living life
without that particular competition and
let's and eat a healthy start center
type diet and let's see whether or not
life gets better oh my god you just
thank you so much I just heard from this
individual and she did manage to get an
appointment with you in April and she is
so appreciative of what you said so you
get this is just like just perfect
perfect thank you I was blown away by
your answer I didn't expect it because
I've not heard you say that before but
it makes complete sense but don't don't
you say I've heard you say that people
that ain't general that binge not
everybody that binges you know vomits
which i think is they're not a very good
habit you know for how things can really
happen bad from that from what I
understand but isn't it always the lack
of starch that causes that because you
know a lot of people are willing to eat
these large volumes of vegetables and
feel mechanically full for a short time
but it doesn't I've been doing this
eight years now you've been doing it you
know a lot
but it always comes back to the people
are still afraid to eat starch yeah
that's that's why I saying how John
yellow I'm Arab young the people need to
not be afraid of the starches the
starches are considerably lower in
calorie density than than the
anthropological evidence indicates that
was the natural level for our species
and that's the level for our species is
probably somewhere in the range of 6 to
700 Cardoza pound the starches are all
less than that which means the starches
are diluting your calorie intake ok
relative to your species natural history
so now when we mean starches you know
what the medulla Program and elsewhere
we mean we're actually there's another
word in there that doesn't get put in
there because it's yeah you know it's
just one extra word that that I now put
in wet wet starches okay the dry
starches are buying carrier density
crackers cookies biscuits bread and so
that that's why we've learned over the
last twenty thirty years that those even
though they're starts as they can be
very healthy biochemically they they can
put weight on people so we don't mean
unlimited starches of bread and jam we
mean when it is starches of the natural
state where they're wet
so rice cakes are healthy food but
they're dried starch if you have a
weight problem there they will they will
support you being overweight is there 14
minute count
but rice is not gonna be a problem rice
is five minutes ago potatoes are 375
squash is three hundred oak meals 325
beans are about 400 these are all very
modest intermediate perfect in their
caloric density you do not need to fear
them you will not systematically overeat
us but if you want to try you can
entertain yourself one day by eating
five pounds of beans just see if you can
choke it down okay step away okay that's
only 2,000 carrots
you're not getting you're not going to
do it you're not going to need five six
pounds of potatoes go ahead go get
yourself ten pounds of potatoes at the
store and enormous sack and then just
steam up six pounds of them and then see
whether or not you can eat them and my
guess will be you you really won't
comfortably be able to fit bust it down
and won't be interested starches are not
the problem
starches are the solution and so we need
to have those even though fruits and
vegetables and salad you know it's a
modest amount of nuts and seeds these
are part of a wholesome diet but the
starches are the simmer and so that the
wine debt being the solution to calming
down people's hunger people stay away
from those they can get very very hungry
in in fits of self-discipline and
they'll stay away from that and as you
say if they eat a bunch of fruits and
vegetables they're gonna get hungry and
then by it being a fearing the starches
what will often happen is they will then
hit by density calories in a rage they
will their their self-discipline will
break because they're hungry and now
they're going to go eat a whole jar of
peanuts okay
and it's like no that's just what we
didn't want to do we didn't want to dive
into 2500 calorie count food to fill you
up to get you satiated we wanted you to
be eating a you know rice and beans
potatoes corn oats we wanted to have a
very hearty soup it has kidney beans and
rice and potatoes in there along with a
bunch of vegetables that's what we
wanted you to do and if we do that we're
gonna be successful right because it's
different when you eat dry oats
they're like 1800 calories a pound but
when you cook them in water you said
there were like 365 we like I love that
you say what starch is differentiating
bread and and crackers and you know dry
cereals right yeah if you're if you're a
person struggling with your weight and
you're at home right now and you're
you're you know vegan ish and you are
you're careful and you're trying to do
all the right things you if you're
eating a lot of dry starches which are
very convenient and
sit on the shelf and they're there for
you all day long those those are part of
the problem so you need to understand
that that's you know when John wrote the
maximum weight loss he was saying listen
we got to be careful of the high-density
foods this high-density foods include
things like nuts and avocado and seeds
and they also include the dry starches
so processed cereal eggs so that's why
it moves us more towards whole natural
foods it's not that you have to
eliminate all those things it's just
that we have to moderate those you have
to be wise about that and understand
that you need to be getting most of your
feeling for being full about staring at
a large pile of starch somewhere on your
plate or in your bowl that's what needs
to be the bulk of what you're eating ok
even though you're saying this and I
believe you because so far you've never
been wrong and least since I've known
you about 10 years kelly is saying that
when she eats unlimited starches like
boiled potatoes and rice she gains
weight and that she literally can eat 6
pounds of potatoes so these people are
outliers right they need a session with
you well I would say this and so oh
because enough people think that and
there's actually reasons why a lot of
people will think that I would challenge
them to do the following the one of the
things that goes on is that when you eat
starch if you eat a big bunch of starch
and what's going to happen is you're
going to store a lot of its glycogen and
for every pound of starts that you store
your also going to store two extra
pounds of water so very often when
people say dr. Lisle buy eat potatoes I
gain weight what they really are saying
is when I eat potatoes on Tuesday my
scale goes up on Wednesday and Thursday
that's what they're saying and they've
done it seven or eight times maybe and
it always happens and they say see
causes me to gain weight that is not a
legitimate assessment because you're the
what we don't care but we don't care
about your weight at all people we care
about your fat
your fat is you're gonna lose fat maybe
at the rate of an ounce a day well you
can't tell you know you eat potatoes on
Tuesday and you're up you're up two
pounds on by Wednesday afternoon you
can't you don't know if you've gained
any fat or not how would you know you're
up 32 ounces yet are you up 33 ounces of
water and glycogen and you've lost an
ounce of fat I will say that that's
probably what happened okay but you're
up 32 ounces you're up two pounds and
you're screaming hey I can't eat starch
I know what you have to do is you have
to take data over time so you want to
eat you start Center diet so if you're
going to start on the first of April
April Fool's Day sometimes start this so
April Fool's Day we have fun with
ourselves and we we have three three
days where we take a consecutive
measurement of our weight on April first
second and third we take the average in
the morning stripped in your underwear
and we write that down let's say it's
168 counts okay that is our best guess
of what you're weightless so we're gonna
say you know you don't have a weight
because every time you take a breath
you breathe out some of your own
molecules so you are a little bit
lighter with every breath that you take
and so you don't have a weight KJ you've
got about a weight so after a three day
average gives us more or less a good
index of what your weight is so let's
suppose somebody's 168 ounces so now
what we want them to do this to eat this
maximum weight loss start Center diet
that they do not have to hold back on
the starches that's what I want them to
do and I want to do exactly what we
would recommend let's reduce or
eliminate and that's avocado and seeds
let's get rid of the dried carbohydrate
and once and and otherwise we're not
going to restrict Thanks so that's what
we're gonna do so now we're going to do
that and now we're going to look at it a
month later and on May first second and
third we're going to take the same
measurements now if you're down two
pounds there's a good chance that you've
actually
drop two pounds in the last 30 days
which is no small thing now for many of
us that are trying to lose weight when
we'll be frustrated with us but we
shouldn't be because if you lost two
pounds that's the equivalent of here
here's a about a 16 ounce thing of water
right here that I'm holding you lost two
of these full of fat okay that's a huge
amount of progress you may not be able
to see it you may be frustrated that the
number is only down from 168 to 166 but
the truth is it means that you've got to
eat to satiation on healthy food you did
not have to diet otherwise and you're
down two of these in 30 days that's
pretty good
now that was only an ounce a day thank
you but you can't possibly see that
measuring today so my challenge to
everybody who thinks that if they eat
starch as they gain weight my question
would be really did you do do this
program very well for 60 straight days
did you measure your your weight in
three consecutive days and take an
average on the first day of every month
and did we see a trend that you gained
weight okay if that's true I'm going to
be very surprised if that's true in fact
I believe that the trend will go the
other one okay so if the trend if you've
gained weight you did you actually do do
this or were there other things that
snuck in and so don't be blaming the
starts I think people blame the starch
for various reasons but the most
important reason is when they eat starch
a lot of starch their weight goes up in
the next 24 or 48 hours and they think
that the starches are causing weight
gain they are they are causing
short-term weight gain but they're not
causing any factor and ultimately the
solution can you getting your weight on
this thank you so much you know I think
a lot of times like you had mentioned
with the person that's competing in
bikini contests many women that come to
us have a strong history of a
restricting type of program like a way
measuring programs and they're not
actually used to being full because our
next question believe it or not this is
perfect was about stretch receptors
which I'll read but people are posting
you know they don't like it when their
stomach goes out I just want to show you
this is my stomach after I eat big deal
it goes down
I mean I'm eating ten pounds of food a
day you think it's not gonna poof out
but I've been skinny now for like you
know six years and I mean nobody eats it
so it goes down but I'm not doing bikini
competitions but here's the question
about the stretch receptors so from from
Cana I believe I'm pronouncing her name
right does though this is this way of
eating stretch your stomach for more
volume to satiety because I mean I think
that these women that come to us dr. Lao
they've just never eaten enough food hmm
the your sensitivity to how much you eat
is going to be dynamic so it's gonna
change so let's suppose that you eat a
low calorie dense let's suppose you've
been eating a high calorie dense diet so
you've been getting you know 2,000
calories a day but you've been getting
it on three pounds of food or let's say
two and a half pounds of food so let's
suppose that you've been eating 800
calorie count food on that looks pretty
healthy but a little on the rich side
and the the extra rich richness of the
diet has caused you to be twenty-five
pounds overweight
so you frustrated and you're ready to
try something new and you find our arena
of the world and you decide you're going
to do what we do and we're going to eat
foods that are going to be more like 600
calories a pound on average so we're
gonna drop us down in chlorine tensity
and we're going to increase the amount
of food from two and a half pounds a day
the three and a half pounds to today and
so as a result at first it's going to be
a little uncomfortable it's going to be
like wow I'm really full you know
because the stretch receptors are not
going to be used to getting that much
stretch however that's going to pass
because it's gonna their nerves they get
used to the kind of stimulation that
that they are they're exposed to
consistently so as a result that's going
to go on for a while and
then and then if you went back and a
very concentrated food you might you
might not be as satisfied and you might
overeat a little more so for a short
period of time so the answer to this is
that these processes are dynamic they're
not stuck so you don't quote stretch
your stomach out and then you've got a
disaster no your your stomach doesn't
stretch anyway folks it's not like if
you put a bunch of stuff in it stretches
the stomach the stomach is a essentially
it's an organ system it's a fixed
dynamic what you're talking about is as
the stomach is stretched when we put
stuff in it how uncomfortable do you get
the more the more the lower density food
that you get were where there's more
bulk inside the stomach yet you will get
used to that so that it won't be
screaming as loud to you it won't be
saying after you know I've had we've all
heard this since I was a kid oh well I
eat Chinese food you know I feel so full
and then an hour later I feel like I
haven't eaten anything yeah that's that
that's the that's the talk of a man who
eats a very high fat diet and eats steak
and cheese that he eats actually in
physically small amounts and gets
satisfied that way goes to Chinese food
which is could be far less than calorie
density so he eats a huge amount and
he's like oh my god I'm full but he
didn't really have any more calories
than he ever does but then an hour later
or actually might be less and then an
hour later he's hungry he's hungry
because he didn't actually need that
many calories he's used to eating and so
now he's hungry again and he's surprised
well that's because it's a different
calorie density and it's got a different
dynamic you know don't worry about your
stomach stretching or not stretching etc
etc there's this fear that if I eat a
bunch of low calorie dense foods buy
some extras out and then if I go back to
rich foods I'm going to need eight
pounds a day of rich food and now I'm
going to be eating like 8,000 calories a
day and the answer is no you won't know
you are very if you were to go back to
higher density foods this system would
very quickly adapt to that
and that's how that looks and it's not
stretch reception isn't the only actor
in the equation anyway you have nutrient
receptors that are monitoring the
calorie density of initiated so that if
you are somebody like myself when we
said great or low calorie dense food not
even close to AJ by the way AJ eats me
under the table two to one okay so I'm
probably eating 700 carry day our
calorie count diet AJ is eating 300 or
so completely different diet in other
words very similar foods biochemically
but but your food is far richer in fiber
and far far higher water content that's
just how it is that's fine both of them
are excellent diets the however the
however if you were to eat something
very rich AJ you're even though wouldn't
stretchers stomach out very much you
would your chemical receptors in your
stomach would tell they could tell
they'd be like whoa you just you just
fed me a handful peanuts there's a lot
of calories in here AJ what did you just
do to me okay so the system is smarter
than just stretch reception and it does
not even though it gets used to a
certain level of stretch it also will
change and it will be dynamic the whole
system folks is engineered where it's
attempting to be accurate it's
attempting to get you to eat the the
right amount of food for your optimum
health that is how it's designed okay so
in the same way if you were to drive
from Los Angeles to Aspen your your
brain would now start filling your lungs
more or a high respiration rate because
of the lower concentration of the oxygen
okay you might say oh no well now if I
do that and I'm breathing harder and
deeper what happens when I go back to
Los Angeles so I'm going to
hyperventilate
so I'll be read too much no you want the
system will really regulate back down in
Los Angeles at sea level okay so these
systems are dynamic and they are
designed by nature to get this accurate
there will be short-term adjustments but
never long-term stuck process
that is biologically impossible okay so
I hope that answers that question that
was great and you know I think the
problem isn't the people are eating
starch and perceiving that they're
gaining weight the problem is is they're
weighing themselves I'm running a 21-day
program right now on on day six they
where people were complaining that
they're at a plateau on day six of
eating this way you know AJ that's a
beautiful observation and so all we can
do is to try to you know I have great
empathy for everybody because they're
committed they've learned a lot they
know what direction they ought to go
they're doing it and then they're
expecting very fast results that they
can measure which would be normal if we
were trying to teach you math if we're
time to teach you math we would give you
little quizzes at every little section
and you could see that you've made
progress and you would get you it's
called feedback the problem that we have
with weight loss is that the feedback
systems are unnatural for people okay
the feedback systems are the legitimate
feedback systems take several weeks for
us to see even a mild amount of
legitimate measurement of change and
what's in here is a bunch of noise and
the noise is super confusing and we'll
throw people off their motivational game
so what I want you to do is to trust us
and to not be measuring yourself every
day we expect something spectacular like
for example two pounds a month so you
might be more if you're very overweight
and you have made a big change towards
us you might lose eight pounds in a
month but most people aren't there most
people are 20 30 40 50 pounds overweight
and so when they make those changes
you're not going to probably see ten or
eight ten pounds in a month you could
but it's not very likely it's more
likely we're gonna see two or three so
AJ I think we saw two pounds a month for
27 months with you okay this was a this
was a slow dance people
it was perfectly executed slow dance
it did not AJ did not lose 50 pounds
for months she did not lose 50 pounds in
eight months she didn't lose 50 pounds
in a year she lost 54 pounds in 27
months so let's be patient with
yourselves this is a lifetime way of
walking it's not even a marathon
it's not a race it's just we get it
right and we allow the system to
normalize beautifully is we're going to
continue with a very healthy path not
for a short period of time on a diet to
lose weight so then we can go back to
everything else now we need to make the
changes now that that are comfortable
and that we're willing to make you get
used to it
so that we can make them forever it
doesn't mean you're never going to do
anything naughty it just means you
better not doing very much naughty very
often
that's women's wow that's incredible you
know I want people to know that if they
love you as much as I love you and can't
get enough of you dr. Lisle actually we
did a course called escaping the
pleasure trap where he talks about this
in great detail and I think it's still
available but even if it's not we're
gonna run it again later and now with so
much time at home this would be perfect
then we could be talking quite a bit of
this I would love for you to talk even
more about this these stretch and
nutrient receptors because I read the
pleasure trap and I know how you'd have
the concept of the yawl circuits you're
overweight eat less but I just always
wonder if stretch receptors and nutrient
receptors can you see them under a
microscope how is your brain involved
because I had an you had mentioned that
if I ate some rich food which I never
would do intentionally I would know I
had an incident recently I forgot to
tell you about it
but it you made me think of it but first
I do want to say that I didn't lose the
weight very slowly over 27 months and I
didn't own a scale at the time so I
didn't else and if I did I would have
probably never done it because I would
have given up on day six like everyone
else and say see it doesn't work I'm at
a plateau so I I was in a new friends
house and I thought she knew exactly how
I ate and I went to her house for dinner
and the booths like she had made a salad
dressing that she had just seen chefs
Bravo make on the summit so I knew I
could eat that she have a salad she had
all different kinds of baked and roasted
potatoes
sweet potatoes and she made a cheese
sauce like a fake vegan cheese sauce and
I said what's in it and she goes oh I
made it out of carrots and potatoes
which is completely doable there's many
cheese sauces that are made out of that
so I'm eating it numb this is good and
remember dr. Golding ever saying that
when something is really good
spit it out so I'm eating this cheese
sauce I'm like this is good this is
really good and I'm eating it and eating
and I'm putting it on everything and
then I said can I see the recipe this is
really good and guess what was in it
that she didn't tell me a shitload of
cashews
that's grass and it's like I was eating
it under false pretense you know not
knowing but I knew that was something
because I'm like I said are you sure you
put salt in here oh no Bensons table
taste I'm like cuz my migraine is like I
like this too much because I can take to
relieve the vegan cheese sauces there
all right I don't do them a lot but but
I might so what does my great how does
your brain know when you're being fooled
did your your taste receptors can pick
up the calorie density they're an energy
detection system as they should be for
goodness sakes they're trying to help
you make decisions on what on earth - to
than Jess so you're in internal natural
genius of your design and sniff it okay
and notice what it did it literally said
come to me kept-kept using your muscles
to close the distance between you and
that food okay keep bringing it in keep
bringing it in just as it was designed
and then because you've learned you know
you because you're you're one a thousand
in terms of knowledge of nutrition and
human motivation around the food you
said to yourself
AJ you like this a little too much I
felt with us by the way I think I told
you the story and the soup wine that I
ate the soup in a soup place that Alan
why I always went for lunch at and it
said vegan and it said there's nothing
in it and and I went back to the office
I said Alan you got to get over there
and taste harvest
harvest butternut squash soup I mean
it's vegan it's clean it's great he goes
it has cream in it
I said no I read the ingredients assists
yeah it does I tasted one bite knew it
was too much went back and talked to the
chef and they said yeah we for criminal
so it takes this is the value of being
paranoid
no so Allen's got a nice paranoid streak
I don't I trusted and yeah if it's too
good to be true it's probably too good
to be true right this is great Xena's
saying unfortunately my y'all circuits
have been on hiatus my entire life rich
food doesn't register and I have to stay
away because I can't regulate it so yeah
fantastic
I knew I could talk to you forever but I
want to respect your time and who knows
how long we'll be sheltering in place
I've got a lot of great guests coming up
including dr. mcdougal but you have an
open invitation any time of the day or
night you feel like going live to you
know five or six hundred people just
text me and because you have so much to
say and people love the way you say
you've got so many fans admirers many of
them women by the way fess up this has
been terrific and we'll get you that
information about the pleasure trap
class make sure you're signed up to be
on my mailing list because we will send
it out but it may be available now I
just say I don't know so thank you dr.
Lyle you are just it's just been a very
reassuring talking to you great seeing
you AJ thanks for having me okay thanks
everybody and see you tomorrow when we
have somebody that's going to do a sound
bold healing bye bye
Back to the top🏃 👖